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#614 - 08/01/02 08:19 PM TRICHOMONAs...i just realized....
Anonymous
Unregistered


oh my god I just realized that back then when babi was sick (i went to the vet in NC) they did a fecal on both of the gliders. The doctor back then told me that bubba (the male) has TRICHOMONAS and gave him some medicine. Right now I am thinking, bubba seamed healthy, maybe I got the stool confused, maybe it was babi. She asked me if we should treat babi too (just in case, even we did not find any trichomonas in her fecal - but just like I said, maybe we got the fecals confused), but we decided (the doctor and me) to wait until she had her joeys. the reason why I said they are both healthy was back then, the doctor told me that TRICHOMONAS wasn't actually documented as a dangerous bacteria. She never has heard of a glider that died of trichomonas. She told me that trichomonas actually are more comon in illegal imported gliders. Babi is the glider I bought from the questionary breeder from the fleamarket.

Don't get me wrong, she is a great doctor, I guess the danger of this bacteria just wasn't known yet ??

I understand that this documentation did change now reading the board.

Now, I am really starting to worry. I had a feeling something wasn't right with babi the whole time.

I don't know why I did not recognize it ealier. I finally realized it after reading the TRICHOMONAS FOLLOWUP post for the 3rd time. I remembered the doctor told me it's simular to the gardia virus.

what to do? I am going to the doctor. HOpefully I will get an appointment tomorrow. Can I give her the medicine even while she has joeys in her pouch? I still have some medicine left from bubba, do you think I can start it already? or do you think it's too old? (I guess it's about one month old)

Please answer quick. Now I am [censored] out again.
Oh, here what she gave me for bubba:
metonidozole 50mg/1mo, 10ml (i may spelled this incorrect, can't read her writing)

Give 0.04 ml every 12 hours for 10 days. expiration date 8/7/02

<small>[ 08-01-2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Gemini ]</small>

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#615 - 08/01/02 08:54 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


to the top!!

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#616 - 08/01/02 09:01 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
I would wait until you see the vet in the morning. First it according to what you posted it has expired. That can be really important in a drug like this.
Is your glider having any symptoms of being ill?
Even so I would still wait and talk and see your vet tomorow.
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#617 - 08/01/02 09:02 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm sorry it's taken so long to respond to you - hopefully someone with more knowledge will be able to help you. I'll recruit some help right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My opinion would be to not give her the medicine until a vet says it's all right. Like you said, you don't want it to have any adverse effects on her joeys, and you're not 100% sure it's trichomonas anyway. If you can get a vet appointment tomorrow morning, that is probably the best way to go.

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#618 - 08/01/02 09:10 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


See, back then she was throwing up and wasn't able to go to the bathroom (remember that night? ellen and peppony, both of you called me)

now she doesn't eat at all, not even her favorites, no bugs, no worms, no joghurt, no bml. I thought they both just needed a change.

For the first time today I noticed a change in fecal color (orange). She seams skinnier. I noticed that right away after getting back from my 3 day vactaion. (hubby took care of her)

I know this is going on for a whole month or more, so that's a little strange, but all the symptons are there. Exactlly like discriped.

the doc did do the fecal back then, and did say she found trichomonas, but we thought it was the boys fecal.

i explained what she said back then about this virus. I guess it was known as a not so dangerous or even deadly bacteria??

I wanna slap myself for not regognizing it ealier. I read this post about 3 times and still did not remember. Gosh, the doctor even wrote it on a little piece of paper and drew the baceria for me, so I can see how it differs from the gardia bacteria.

<small>[ 08-01-2002, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Gemini ]</small>

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#619 - 08/01/02 10:27 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Gemini,

I would agree with Toni and Ellen. In addition, here is what Glideroo stated about that particular medication. I knew I had seen it somewhere, took me a while to find it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Glideroo

Glider Slave
Member # 2417

posted 08-01-2002 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheila: Because of high dose studies in animals that show that it may be a carcinogen and some birth defects were noted in rats, Metronidazole (Flagyl) is not recommended for use if an animal is pregnant.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 796 | From: Buffalo, NY, USA | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
_________________________
Craig

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#620 - 08/01/02 10:31 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay, I have thought about this in detail:

beginning of July
-----------------------

signs of illness:
1)vomiting
2)back then I thought she is not urinating or pooping. I did notice her urinating and pooping at the vet.

vet was not able to find anything, but we had a hard time getting any fecal from her. vet thought it may was a little to dry to check, but checked anyway. No bacteria found.

because of bubba's hairloss the vet did a fecal on bubba (the boy). I gave the vet a little turt, thinking it was bubbas.vet found trichomonas in this fecal sample.

Bubba was put on medication for 10 days. We decided not to treat the female as she had joeys, and trichomonas wasn't known as a deadly bacteria. (BTW: what changed that? I am a little confused)

I thought both of them was doing okay.
I did notice a change of appetite. They did not eat their bml, can-0-crickets, or even pinkys.
Veggie/fruit mix finally was eaten for about 2 days and then it stopped again. (remember all my posts about them not eating the bml once again?)

they both eat live mealworms once in a while, but if babi eats 2 I am lucky.

July 31.2002
i came home from my TN trip. I noticed right away that babi looked skinnier. She is not dehydrated. Thought maybe the joeys are feeding of her too much, that's why she lost weight. (specially because she is not eating right anyway)

Tried to give both of them a pinky, neither one of them wanted it.

August 01, 2002
noticed the orange color in stool. the stool looked a little fatter, but I did not see any other stuff in the stool.

Babies face is a little wet looking, not sure why that is.

again: Tried to give both of them a pinky, neither one of them wanted it.

Later today I read the trichomonas article again.
my brain finally started working and I remembered what the vet told me back then. "Bubba had trichomonas, but it wasn't a deadly bacteria."

august 1,2002 11:20 PM
Gemini is going crazy once again. bubba is out playing, babi is in the pouch.

Not sure if it's because she is taking care of her joeys or because she is sick. I hear a strange crabbing sound, shorter then usually, but I know it's not a happy sound.

I know this pretty much is the same as described earlier, but I think it's a bit clearer now that I had more time to think (or brain storm)

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#621 - 08/01/02 10:34 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Have you had joeys before? The crabbing sound could be her "lullaby" which sounds almost painful sometimes, but is just her talking to her joeys. It almost sounds like she's scolding them. Could that be what you heard? It's a sound never heard except when there are joeys.

Can't offer anything else to this -- hopefully you'll have more info when you contact the vet tomorrow.

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#622 - 08/01/02 10:37 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


bettlejuice thanks.
so that means I may have to choose between babi or joeys?

Lucy, thanks to you too. I have never had joeys, so this sound is really new to me. I have heard another sound yesterday, have never heard that one either, but it sounded more like sining to me then the sound I just now heard <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

she is actually moving more right now, but she is NOT eating. bubba is not eating either, but he is eating more then she is.

how can she feed herself and the joeys if she does not get any nutrion...

<small>[ 08-01-2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Gemini ]</small>

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#623 - 08/01/02 10:40 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Gemini,

I would think they would be able to prescribe something else, maybe Baytril? Hopefully it won't come down to that type of choice.
_________________________
Craig

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#624 - 08/01/02 10:45 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


bettlejuice. thanks again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If it comes down to this I will ask the vet about this.

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#625 - 08/01/02 11:04 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


how old are the joeys? ARe they out of pouch yet? If so, you can supplment feed the joeys to make it easier on her. Just water down some baby BML --

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#626 - 08/01/02 11:05 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: Anonymous]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Gabriele, Please talk to your vet first before you start worrying about making choices.
I am sure your vet can shed some light on all of this. Including your joeys and the medication.
You only have a few hours until you are able to call your vet and get some piece of mind.
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#627 - 08/01/02 11:18 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


thanks all. Yes, I guess you are all right. I will talk to my vet tomorrow as soon as I get up.

Lucy: the joyes are not out of pouch yet, but should be any day now. I can see tail and legs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope everything is okay and I worry for no reason. Please think about me tomorrow.

send a phsyic alarm clock over here, because I don't hear mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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#628 - 08/02/02 10:58 AM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm a little worried about the direction some of these giardia and trich posts are going. Remember that none of us are vets, and we should NEVER attempt to self-diagnose or self-medicate our gliders. NEVER. There's no reason for panic.

Anytime your glider is acting, looking, eating, or eliminating abnormally, you should see a vet.

This board can give information, and we can tell about what has happened in our gliders, but we don't see the whole, and we can't be vets. Please take the information, do your own reading, and visit your own vet if you have concerns.

Just thought we might need to settle down the fear going on here (this from a person with one of the sick gliders).

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#629 - 08/02/02 01:14 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy: my posting about the trichomonas and giardia was not to panic/put fear into people and have them self-diagnosing/self-medicating their pets but rather make owners aware of the fact they should always keep an eye on their glider's health , and that changes noted in their glider (whether in the feces, eatting habits, energy level, weight) should alert them that a vet checkup/possible fecal testing may be in order. If you feel that the Trichmonas/giardia posts should be taken down, please feel free to do so.

Gabriele: I agree with Ellen & Lucy about talking to your vet before panicking. It is never advisable to self-diagnose a pet's problem. If you see symptoms that may indicate a problem, it is always best to get your pet to the vet for a checkup. Nor is it wise to use a drug for a pet that was prescribed for another pet as many medications are calculated based on an animal's weight. This is true of metronidazole (Flagyl). Thus, if Bubba weighs a lot more than Babi and you use the dosage prescribed for Bubba, you would be overdosing Babi which could have serious consequences in itself.

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#630 - 08/02/02 02:20 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
BMXgirl Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 7078
Loc: USA
(some things I learned over the years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - Never give another animal a perscription that was not specifically calculated for that animal. Not only could the medicine be off and "overdose" the animal....but trying to self medicate with a medicine thats not strong enough for that particlular animal can be useless...might as well not be giving nothing at all.

I also learned that it does no good to panic.
Alot of times we panic...only to find that it wasnt really something to panic over. And everything turns out just fine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Even the times when we unfortunatly find out that something is wrong... it does no good to panic. (sometimes easier said than done I admit.)
Only makes a situation worse, not only for you, but the animal your caring for....they like to know their Humans are calm and ready to handle the situation and be there for them 100%. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Just wanted to say....Gemeni- I know the feeling Hon... having a joey/joeys for the first time is so nervewrecking! We worry about everything and wonder "is this normal - is that normal?!!!"
Your doing great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Good Luck at the vet's. You guys will be in my thoughts. Please let us all know how the vet visit goes... (and No panicking... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )
(Maybe you could print this whole thread out and take it to your vet...maybe the part about where you talked about it in detail might be of help some... if not at least the vet can see what a wonderful caring Glider Community you belong to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Hugs to you... <img border="0" alt="heart" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />
_________________________
www.GlidersUncensored.com
(Glider Anatomy, Info, & a wee bit of fun.)

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#631 - 08/02/02 04:30 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


thank you all so much for your kind words. I know I am panicing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I just came from the vet. She wasn't able to find anything wrong with babi, but she does agree that she did lose weight even with the joeys. She even said babi looks almost boney. We can't figure out what is wrong.

Bubba, still has the bacteria. It wasn't trichomonas, but cochlosoma (??) I guess this is also simular to giardia (looks simular) He is on medicine now, but the last time the medicine did not help, so we'll see if it does this time. Bubba also lost weight, he now weighs only 92, at the last visit he weight 98.

the vet pretty much feels like me, something is wrong, but we can't put our finger on it. Very strange. Anything else we can look for? She did not want to x-ray babi because of the joeys, and I do understand.

i am a little lost here. It is not a great feeling if everything checks out ok, but you still know something is wrong. I have no clue on what to do about them not eating. It got really ovious after I got the other 2 gliders, they eat about 3 times as much as babi and bubba.

the vet gave me som nekton-rep vitamin stuff because they both don't eat the bml right now. Do you guys know what else to feed them that could substitute the bml (remember, they don't even eat mealies)? I just have to find a way to make them eat at least a little fruit and veggies.

Glideroo: I really did not want to get you worried that your post may start a panic. It just happens that my glider shows almost all the symtoms. Just like I said, even my vet can't figure out what it is, but she agrees that something is wrong. they lost too much weight.

<small>[ 08-02-2002, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Gemini ]</small>

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#632 - 08/02/02 05:22 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
If they arent eating the BML then you might want to switch to a fresh feeding diet. Elwinn has posted his in diet and Nutrition Here
This may be something to get food into them and food YOU know about and is safe.
I hope the med's start kicking in soon.
Keep us posted.
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#633 - 08/02/02 05:28 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ellen, really it's not just the bml, it's fruit, mealies, joghurt, everything. They just don't eat right anymore. They are losing weight. I am just trying to start somewhere, so I thought I start with the most important part of their diet, which is bml.

I am really in trouble here. I wish you could see babi, she is skin and bones.

bubba, even he is the one with the parasite and he did lose some weight actually doesn't even look sick.

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#634 - 08/02/02 05:58 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Email sent
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#635 - 08/02/02 05:59 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Gabrielle, gosh...it has to be heartbreaking to sit and watch all go downhill with your gliders health. I have been there as well as others here on the board too.

I can only suggest perhaps your vet can run some cultures on the fecal matter and also urine. Perhaps this would lead to some insight before it is too late. Or....locate another vet who has more experience with sugar gliders.

Were you trying to spell clostridium or cryptospordium or coxcidia or something else?

<small>[ 08-02-2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#636 - 08/02/02 06:53 PM Re: TRICHOMONAs...i just realized.... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i was trying to spell cochlosoma (Protocal parasite) . If that's not correct, then I can't read my vets handwriting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I run to the store to get some food, trying to see if she eats anything. So far, no luck, but I will try. She did eat a half a grape an hour ago, but that's about it. will keep on trying.

I am really not sure what to do. vet did run the fecal. She said she did anything she could without putting her down for a x-ray.

I can't remember her checking her urine or her pouch this time.
She did her stomache and checked her gums (???), but not for any parasites, she just looked and felt.

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