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#629729 - 09/06/08 06:58 PM Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww...
Mio
Unregistered


Just looked up the ingredients for zookeeper's secret. Does this sound gross and "mystery meat" to anyone else? Doesn't look glider-healthy to me.


Okay, list removed... so it included things like animal by-products, salt, peanuts, bakery by-products, and other weird stuff like that... you can PM me for a link, or look it up on suncoast or exoticnutrition.


Edited by Mio (09/06/08 08:09 PM)

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#629733 - 09/06/08 07:03 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
ambylynnlove
Unregistered


and thats what i feed mine i was gunna switch to bml and this just helped me thanks

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#629735 - 09/06/08 07:05 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
konotashi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 4061
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I don't like when foods have animal by-products.... It makes me wonder if it's ever the same by-products every time. :/
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#629761 - 09/06/08 07:52 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
gnhughes
Unregistered


I know people rave over it and I am not here to bash it...but I chose not to feed it to my gliders because of the ingredients. I couldn't make heads or tails of what my gliders would be eating. confused

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#629762 - 09/06/08 07:53 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: konotashi]
Mio
Unregistered


See, same here. From researching dog foods for my pits, I've learned that, even for carnivore food, if the words "by-product" are up there, AVOID! But zookeeper's secret is supposedly the best pellet food you can buy. And yet I see things that are not only NOT part of their natural diet, but things that even humans should be avoiding, like corn syrup solids? ewwww.... And peanuts and salt? Should gliders be eating this stuff? I'm gonna look up some more dried foods to compare, but I don't think I've ever seen a list like that before.

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#629778 - 09/06/08 08:08 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
Mio
Unregistered


I looked up some more, and while some had things like "blood meal" and "pork by-products" and "salt", none of them were as gross as zookeeper's. I mean, I know that some people love it, and I know from the sample I got a while back that my gliders do love it, but I don't get how that can be healthy for a sap-sucking insectivore???

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#630040 - 09/07/08 06:12 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
nevermind.


Edited by Gossamer (09/07/08 06:21 AM)
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Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#630159 - 09/07/08 12:50 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: Gossamer]
Rhapsody
Unregistered


I just looked at the first five ingredinets and as with any product / food the first five to four ingrdients listed is mainly what the product is made from...... and the ZooKeepres list:

Meat By-Products
Fish Meal
Shrimp Meal
Wheat Flour
Dried Bakery Products
Dried Kelp

Common food items found in a lot of pet foods.... from dogs & cats to ferrets & mice.... and vet approved for good health.

So, IMO - I say the ZK can't be that bad based on what other pets are eating out there.

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#630454 - 09/07/08 07:19 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
Mio
Unregistered


For our (mostly) carnivorous animals, I'm sure that's fine, but like I said, these guys are insectivores/sap-suckers... doesn't that mean they have different nutritional needs? (rhetorical question) I mean, meat is great for cats and dogs and ferrets... but we tell newbies not to feed their gliders red meat or fish... and yet... lookie...

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#630546 - 09/07/08 11:20 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
Rhapsody
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Mio
but we tell newbies not to feed their gliders red meat or fish... and yet... lookie...



Hmm -

Fish I can understand, as sugar gliders lives in trees of Australia, therefore, fish is probably not a big part of their regular diet..... but aren't the lizards, baby bids and raw insects they eat for protein considered red meat?

.... just a little food for thought.

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#630637 - 09/08/08 05:30 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
The zookeepers was made for insectovores.


Edited by Gossamer (09/08/08 05:31 AM)
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#630643 - 09/08/08 05:58 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
TexanTreasure08
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Rhapsody
but aren't the lizards, baby bids and raw insects they eat for protein considered red meat?


No, none of those are considered red meat. None of them are part of the mammalian family like beef, pork. That's why we feed chicken and eggs in our diets and not ground beef.

Mammals: (class Mammalia) are a class of vertebrate animals characterized by the presence of sweat glands, including sweat glands modified for milk production, hair, three middle ear bones used in hearing, and a neocortex region in the brain.
All mammals (except for the five species of monotremes) give birth to live young instead of laying eggs.
Birds: (class Aves) are bipedal, endothermic (warm-blooded), vertebrate animals that lay eggs. Birds' diets are varied and often include nectar, fruit, plants, seeds, carrion, and various small animals, including other birds.
Lizards: (Reptilian, order Squamata) Most lizards have four limbs, external ears, a long tail, and are insectivores.
and Insects are completely different altogether.

I think the difference is that the animals you listed mainly eat insects, which is quite different than the mammals (red meat) that eat other animals higher up in the food chain. The higher up you go, the higher the chances that the animal has ingested something harmful. Take trichinosis for example. CDC: Trichinellosis, also called trichinosis, is caused by eating raw or undercooked meat of animals infected with the larvae of a species of worm called Trichinella. Infection occurs commonly in certain wild carnivorous (meat-eating) animals but may also occur in domestic pigs.
There are many more examples of this.

Sorry about my very long post, but I just wanted to clear that up. smile

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#630644 - 09/08/08 06:00 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: Gossamer]
TexanTreasure08
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Gossamer
The zookeepers was made for insectovores.


and how can we say that when the main ingredients are meat by-products, fish, and shrimp? None of those are in the diet of an insectivore.

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#630652 - 09/08/08 06:16 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
TexanTreasure08
Unregistered


BTW I love my exotic nutrition premium diet pellets!

SOYBEAN MEAL, APPLE, BEET PULP, BLOOD MEAL, GROUND ROASTED SOYBEANS, BLUEBERRIES, BROCCOLI, HONEY, RASPBERRIES, BEE POLLEN, CANE MOLASSES, CORN GULTEN MEAL, CALCIUM CARBONATE, MONO DI-CALCIUM PHOSPHATE, SALT (1.4% of diet max), EUCALYPTUS, YEAST CULTURE, L. ACIDOPHILUS, S. FAECIUM, S. CEREVISIAE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, COPPER SULFATE, ZINC PROTEINATE, MANGANESE PROTEINATE, COPPER PROTEINATE, COLBOLT PROTEINATE, THIAMINE MONOITRATE, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN D-3 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN C SUPPLEMENT, ZINC OXIDE, BIOTIN, FOLIC ACID, NIACIN SUPPLEMENT, PYRIDOXINE HCL, DEHY ALFALFA MEAL, PANTOTHENIC ACID, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN B-12 SUPPLEMENT.

the blood meal is the only questionable thing, but its not able to carry any of the diseases found in red meat like the by-products. And mollasses= a natural source of sugar, unlike corn syrup.

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#630857 - 09/08/08 12:30 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
The "technical" name for zookeeper's is "insectovore fare" It was created by zoos to feed insect eating mammals. The ingredients mimic the nutritional values of insects, plus other things insect eating mammals would eat (they do eat other stuff). I didn't create the stuff, I'm just telling you why it came about dunno
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#631253 - 09/08/08 09:50 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: Gossamer]
blockamon Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Actually, Zookeeper's Secret (or more properly Reliable Protein Products Insectivore Fare) is specifically designed for insect-eating animals. RPP specializes in providing food to zoos, not pet owners (which is why it is rebagged as Zookeeper's by retailers). Several zoos around the world use the product. In addition, it is specifically recommended by several glider-knowledgeable vets (including Dr. Johnson-Delaney).

I don't personally use it because my gang doesn't like it. However, if it's good enough for zoos and some of the country's top glider vets, it seems OK to me. As for why it doesn't contain insects, I'd be guessing, but I bet it comes down to two factors: 1) aflatoxin risk in "farmed" insects and 2) higher availability of other suitable food products. It should also be noted that Wombaroo, which makes the main ingredient in the HPW diet, takes a similar approach in their glider nutrition products.


Edited by blockamon (09/08/08 09:53 PM)

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#631316 - 09/08/08 11:45 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: blockamon]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: blockamon
It should also be noted that Wombaroo, which makes the main ingredient in the HPW diet, takes a similar approach in their glider nutrition products.


You are definitely right here blockamon. Interestingly Wombaroo's insectivore mix is purely for the birds...literally. However, their small Carnivore food, not only has a sugar glider on the front of the packet, it gives instructions for sugar gliders and other small marsupials on the back of the packet.

The Ingredients include whey protein, soy protein like Wombaroo High Protein Supplement but then other ingredients include fish meal, meat meal and blood meal. All sound familiar?

Mixed up with water it sort of resembles damp dirt!

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#631770 - 09/09/08 04:34 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: Marz]
DARON
Unregistered


I think it was touched on above, but I'd like to clarify my understanding. Thes guys are from another continent, which to us might as well be another planet. Just because an ingredient on the label doesn't seem to make since to us, does not make it wrong or bad. Some of the things gliders eat(or any animal for that fact) can not just be bagged or canned and sold to the public as food for many reasons. Live things die, some things can't be imported to U.S., & some we probably don't even know about. Scientists that make this stuff do their best to mimic a diet that they get in the wild as closely as they can, but some additives have to be used to keep the food fresh and from spoiling. Some of the ingredients fit as close as they can get to the natural diest as the FDA will allow. We as glider owners accepted these things when we chose to have gliders as pets, and I love my little girls so Im glad I did. Bottom line, there is no perfect food. Many people use Zookeepers with great results and as they say, "Results speak for themselves!" Sorry for the rant!

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#633212 - 09/11/08 01:29 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
TexanTreasure08
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: DARON
Scientists that make this stuff do their best to mimic a diet that they get in the wild as closely as they can, but some additives have to be used to keep the food fresh and from spoiling.


I refuse to believe that sugar gliders eat red meat (BEEF) in their natural habitat, and I know it is not needed to keep the food fresh!! That is mainly what we were talking about.
And many people have used this line of thinking ("Well scientists/companies/someone else made it & researched it so it must be ok") for years and we see many harmful effects of by products being used for the cat & dog food. It wasn't that long ago when pets were DYING from the aflatoxin problem so I think it is not unreasonable for pet owners to want to make sure they are feeding their pets the best. What's so wrong with questioning what's in your pets food?

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#633219 - 09/11/08 01:52 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
nekochan
Unregistered


If you want to get technical, I don't think sugar glider eat soybeans, blueberries, BEET PULP, CORN GLUTEN, BLOOD MEAL, yogurt, or any of the things we feed our gliders in their natural habitat, save for acacia gum and eucalyptus.
We do what we can to keep them healthy.

>^.^<

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#633500 - 09/11/08 01:24 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
DARON
Unregistered


No one ever said not to look into the food your animals eat, I spent a long time on this and other forums before finally choosing HPW. But the whole point was you cant get the exact items that gliders eat in the wild and throw it together & give it to your glider. The stuff is not available and not legal to import. My next door neighbor is a zoolologist that works for the FDA and was very involved in investigating those pet deaths a while back. He personally doesnt like the HPW I feed my gliders. He told me that beef is a very tiny portion of the mix but can be a suitable substitute for things in the wild not just content(beef to beef) but for taste, preserving, & nutritional value. According to him, gliders will eat meat off of dead animals, it is not the norm but does happen. Like I said bottum line, many people use ZK with a lot of success. I may try it myself.

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#637749 - 09/17/08 08:54 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
happygypsymoth Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 409
Loc: Navarre, Florida
ZKS is only meant to be part of the diet. You have to look at the whole diet if you are considering this.

Sugar Gliders also eat bird eggs and baby birds in the wild. So they are not purely "insectivore".
_________________________
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2 Humans,5 Chihuahuas,7 Suggies(the Suggies definately rule!)
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Forever Gliding High, together!

Save a Kid! Close the Lid!
And Check your Pouches Daily!

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#637867 - 09/17/08 12:26 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
Can I ask what he didn't like about the HPW?
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#637875 - 09/17/08 12:31 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: Gossamer]
DARON
Unregistered


Part of it was the large amount of honey, I think. Too be honest he was talking way above my head. He liked the Briskry Eucaliptis diet(sp) as a base along with fruits, veggies, & meal worms. He loves mealworms, especially if you grow your own, he constantly says their is just nothing like feeding and raising the woms as feeders knowing exactly what you feed the worms is ok for the Suggies

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#639620 - 09/19/08 09:45 PM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: ]
blockamon Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Rather odd advise if you ask me. Meal worms aren't really a good substitute for the mature insects that are the main protein source in the wild. I'd be cautious about total fat intake when feeding lots of worms.

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#695281 - 12/18/08 11:50 AM Re: Zookeeper's Secret ingredients... ewwww... [Re: blockamon]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
hello everybody,
i had to add my 2 cents worth on the pellets. i have tried for close to a year buying different pellets(hard) including exotic nutrition premium and my sugar would not touch them.
i even sprinkled a little organic apple juice on them to soften the pellets, still she would not touch it. i decided to try the zookeepers secret(i did not like the ingredients in it either, i am an organic person all the way) to my amazement sugar loves it and so does my rocky,
besides the rest of suncoast/zookeepers diet.
when i adopted sugar the breeder told me to feed her cat food-good quality, oatmeal, raisins,fruit and veg. nothing abt. mealies, etc. i did my homework on the computer and changed her diet quick. anyway i found this site from sun coast sugar gliders and i am thankful, i am learning more from this site than i have in a year, i just signed up this month. i am rambling now.

happy holidays to everyone

p.s. next year i will be looking to buy a female wfb sweetie
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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