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#643112 - 09/24/08 01:00 PM I'm am really confused about HPW...help!
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
I bought everything I need for HPW and have a few questions. The wombaroo powder box lists soy protein as 1 of the ingredients, but I thought gliders couldn't have soy? I read that the diet lacks a little in the calcium department, but we don't add any calcum supplement to it, and that's why the fruits / veggies we feed them are important, right? That's where the whole calcium:phosphorous ratio deal comes in, right? I printed one of those lists with the ratios on it and I know I'm supposed to feed them at a 2:1, but these lists say, for example, Apricots 0.7:1. So I may be experiencing a major blond moment, but HUH? The colon is between the 7 and 1, so is this o.k., or do I need to look at the list and find foods where the 0 is instead a 2?

I read in another post from Peggy that mixed corn, green beans, peas and carrots are what she feeds, but are these frozen mixed veggies? Mine don't like those!

Any advice?
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#643127 - 09/24/08 01:25 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
Originally Posted By: Sabrina
The wombaroo powder box lists soy protein as 1 of the ingredients, but I thought gliders couldn't have soy? There is debate over feeding soy, I think it's more along the lines of feeding something like tofu(all soy)
I read that the diet lacks a little in the calcium department, but we don't add any calcum supplement to it, and that's why the fruits / veggies we feed them are important, right? Yes that's where balancing the vegis & fruits come in.
That's where the whole calcium:phosphorous ratio deal comes in, right? Yes
I printed one of those lists with the ratios on it and I know I'm supposed to feed them at a 2:1, but these lists say, for example, Apricots 0.7:1. So I may be experiencing a major blond moment, but HUH? The colon is between the 7 and 1, so is this o.k., No that is not a great fruit as far as ratios go but would be fine balanced with a higher calcium fruit or vegi.

or do I need to look at the list and find foods where the 0 is instead a 2? Yes a 2 or better

I read in another post from Peggy that mixed corn, green beans, peas and carrots are what she feeds, but are these frozen mixed veggies? Mine don't like those! Then look at your list and find good vegis that your gliders do like and the vegis can be fresh or frozen or the vegi relish even.
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#643134 - 09/24/08 01:31 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Trigger]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
This thread may help you out too.

Ratios and HPW
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kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
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#643153 - 09/24/08 01:46 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Trigger]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
That thread is where I found the list of foods that Peggy feeds. You answered my major question, so I think I can figure it out pretty well from here. I found another older thread in the HPW subforum that has some interesting info, so I'll put something healthy for them together. Thank-you so much!
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#643362 - 09/24/08 06:26 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
buttercup
Unregistered


My gliders love sweet potatoes and cucumbers. I've tried butternut squash baby food and they never left any of that lol.

Some suggies are just more picky than others. I've tried lots of different veggies on mine.

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#643369 - 09/24/08 06:45 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Yep, everything to the left of the colon is the calcium number, everything to the right of the colon is the phosphorus number. Many of these calculations are not whole numbers, so you get a faction like 0.7, or 7/10. So with apricots, they'd be eating something that is 3/10 higher in phosphorus than in calcium. All foods combined in the diet for the night should average roughly two times higher in calcium than phosphorus, or 2:1.
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#643406 - 09/24/08 07:40 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: KattyM]
happygypsymoth Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 409
Loc: Navarre, Florida
I'm a little concerned about the soy protein, myself. That actually is a lot of soy.
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#643410 - 09/24/08 07:44 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: KattyM]
gnhughes
Unregistered


Thanks for posting this. It helps some of who didn't really completely understand the diet. Makes sense now!!

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#643479 - 09/24/08 08:29 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: ]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
Originally Posted By: gnhughes
Thanks for posting this. It helps some of who didn't really completely understand the diet. Makes sense now!!


I didn't want to sound [slow], but I just really didn't get it. I love posting questions. I like understanding what I'm doing! crazy

KattyM ~ Thanks for posting that reply! I had a good understanding when trigger had responded, but your reply sealed the deal, so to speak. grin

Stephanie ~ They like sweet potatoes, but not cucumber. I always forget to buy sweet potatoes, though. frown

I made my first batch of HPW. It has the consistency of milk, but it's a little frothy on the top. I mixed it all in and stuck it in the freezer. I hope the babies like it! I know the cat really enjoyed licking up all of the HPW that got spilled on the counter..down the dishwasher..on the floor... shakehead
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#643742 - 09/25/08 07:21 AM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: happygypsymoth]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
soy is one of those things that has the reputation of being bad - but noone knows why or even if there is any proof that it is bad. HPW powder has been used a very long time in Australia - I can't imagine it would continue to be used if it was bad. Soy being bad is just a myth that keeps getting perpetuated over and over again.
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3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
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#643753 - 09/25/08 07:39 AM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Gossamer]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
Sabrina here is something I just found out with 2 of my gliders. I separated them from Mom and Dad on Sunday into their own cage. They were eating Fruits and Veggies just fine with Mom and Dad but for some reason they would not eat them once separated but ate all the HPW. So 2 nights ago I said lets see if I mix them all together if they eat it all. Sure enough they ate everything from fruits and veggies to HPW. So now they get HPW over Fruits and Veggies. Last night the bowl was licked clean also. You might try this method of feeding.
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#643754 - 09/25/08 07:41 AM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Gossamer]
Monster
Unregistered


This is part of why some people do not like to feed soy:

Quote:
SOY INFORMATION


Soybeans are high in phytic acid, present in the bran or hulls of all seeds. It's a substance that can block the uptake of essential minerals - calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc - in the intestinal tract. Although not a household word, phytic acid has been extensively studied; there are literally hundreds of articles on the effects of phytic acid in the current scientific literature. Scientists are in general agreement that grain- and legume-based diets high in phytates contribute to widespread mineral deficiencies in third world countries.15 Analysis shows that calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc are present in the plant foods eaten in these areas, but the high phytate content of soy- and grain-based diets prevents their absorption.

The soybean has one of the highest phytate levels of any grain or legume that has been studied,16 and the phytates in soy are highly resistant to normal phytate-reducing techniques such as long, slow cooking.17 Only a long period of fermentation will significantly reduce the phytate content of soybeans. When precipitated soy products like tofu are consumed with meat, the mineral-blocking effects of the phytates are reduced.18 The Japanese traditionally eat a small amount of tofu or miso as part of a mineral-rich fish broth, followed by a serving of meat or fish.

Vegetarians who consume tofu and bean curd as a substitute for meat and dairy products risk severe mineral deficiencies. The results of calcium, magnesium and iron deficiency are well known; those of zinc are less so.

Zinc is called the intelligence mineral because it is needed for optimal development and functioning of the brain and nervous system. It plays a role in protein synthesis and collagen formation; it is involved in the blood-sugar control mechanism and thus protects against diabetes; it is needed for a healthy reproductive system. Zinc is a key component in numerous vital enzymes and plays a role in the immune system. Phytates found in soy products interfere with zinc absorption more completely than with other minerals.19 Zinc deficiency can cause a "spacey" feeling that some vegetarians may mistake for the "high" of spiritual enlightenment.

The article already mentions the important role that zinc plays. As for CALCIUM, it is needed for normal development/maintenance of bones & teeth, clotting of the blood, normal heart action, normal muscle activity, and serves as an activator of important enzymes. A deficiency in calcium can cause [slow] growth, poor tooth/bone formation, Rickets, slow clotting time of blood and Tetany. MAGNESIUM is a constituent of bones, muscles & red blood cells, necessary for healthy muscles/nerves, and for proper body metabolism. A deficiency in magnesium can result in mental, emotional & muscle disorders. IRON is essential for formation of hemoglobin of red blood cells/provision of oxygen to cells and is a constituent of cellular enzymes. A deficiency in iron can result in anemia. COPPER is also essential for formation of hemoglobin/red blood cells and is an essential component of several enzymes. Copper is found in all tissues but its heaviest concentration is in the liver, kidneys, heart & brain. A deficiency can result in anemia, bone demineralization & impaired growth.

The importance of this article extract is:

1)soy products contain much higher amounts of Phytates than other grains/legumes.
2)phytates in soy are highly resistant to normal phytate-reducing techniques such as long, slow cooking & only a long period of fermentation will significantly reduce the phytate content of soybeans but may not elminate it sufficiently.
3)phytic acid can block the uptake of essential minerals such as calcium, zinc, magnesium, copper & iron.
4)When precipitated soy products like tofu are consumed with meat, the mineral-blocking effects of the phytates are reduced.

For those interested in added protein for their gliders, you may or may not know that there are COMPLETE PROTEIN sources & INCOMPLETE PROTEIN sources. Complete protein sources come from animal food sources such as meats, fish, poultry, & eggs (studies have shown animal food sources provide the highest quality/most complete proteins)while incomplete protein sources come from plant foods like corn, grains, nuts, sunflower seeds, and legumes such as soybeans, navy bean, split peas, chick peas & peanuts. So for those using the BML diet, your gliders are getting COMPLETE PROTEINS via the Gerber/Heinz chicken baby food & egg used in the mix. Additional complete protein sources in the BML diet comes in the form of the insects being fed as part of the diet(crickets, mealies) so you should have no worries about protein deficiencies.

As for using soy products as a way to supplement calcium levels, if you're using the BML diet, remember that the Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Calcium with Vit. D-3 & the Rep-Cal Herptivite are added in the BML mix & both contain calcium. Also, excessive calcium should be avoided as it can cause constipation/kidney stones and may inhibit the absorption of iron and zinc. Finally, believe it or not, lack of physical activity reduces the amount of calcium absorbed. This is why night-time play and exercise for your glider is so important. Studies have been done showing that exercise helps increase calcium absorption and can improve bone density.

In summary, the phytates/phytic acid in soy products may actually impede the uptake and absorption of calcium as well as other necessary minerals in the digestive tract defeating the very purpose for which the soy product was being added. This could possibly lead to potentially serious health problems for your gliders. Please take the above information into consideration if using or planning to use soy products such as tofu or bean curd as a means to supplement protein/calcium for your gliders.

ON TO SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE:

Soy Protein Isolate is a highly-processed protein isolate where the soy protein is removed from defatted soybean flakes. Soy protein isolate contains over 90% soy protein. It commonly contains GENETICALLY-MANIPULATED SOY. While the soy protein in the isolate is easily-digestible, the use of genetically-manipulated soy and the heavy processesing which removes much of other elements of the soybeans make soy protein isolate a product to avoid where possible.

DANGERS RE: GENETICALLY-MANIPULATED SOY:

1)A recent experiment conducted by independent expert Dr. Alpad Pusztai in the United Kingdom has shown that genetically-manipulated foods can, when fed to animals in reasonable amounts, cause very gradual organ damage and immune system damage.

2)A separate followup experiment conducted by Dr. S.W.B. Ewen, a Senior Pathologist at the University of Aberdeen, has confirmed that it was not the "GNA lectin," but toxic or infectious by-products of the genetic manipulation process which led to the immune system damage and organ damage in the animals fed genetically-manipulated potatoes. Because it was not the lectin in the potatoes, but the genetic manipulation process itself which led to toxicity, similar results might be seen in animals or humans fed genetically-manipulated soy, canola, and corn over a long period of time.

3)there are several differences between the normal breeding process and the artificial genetic manipulation process. One key difference is the USE OF HIGHLY INFECTIOUS VIRUSES for artificial genetic manipulation as a promoter to switch on the introduced gene. One commonly-used virus is a highly-infectious form of the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus (CaMV). (The form of CaMV virus found in normal foods is not highly-infectious and cannot be absorbed by mammals.)

4)another key difference between normal breeding and artificial genetic manipulation is that the genetic manipulation greatly increases the RISK that the PLANT (e.g., soy)WILL DEVELOP toxic OR ALLERGY-CAUSING COMPOUNDS. Such unexpected changes have already been shown to occur in some genetically-manipulated crops.

5)the insertion of a new gene can sometimes alter the synthesis of chemicals in the plant. Such an alteration can lead to the change in existing chemical compounds in the plant (including a possible significant increase in existing levels of toxic compounds) or the development of new toxic or allergy-causing compounds. There would be no way to predict these effects in advance and it would be difficult to test for these effects without many years of careful, independent research on human test subjects. Gradual toxic effects could occur over weeks, months, years, or even decades and society would not be aware of the health damage until it was too late.

6)another major risk from genetically-manipulated foods is the possibility that regular exposure to foreign DNA and RNA material inserted into these artificial foods could cause allergic reactions or autoimmune diseases. Recent scientific research has shown that fragments of DNA from genetically-manipulated food ingredients can be detected in the brains of animals fed these food ingredients. There is evidence that DNA and RNA fragments can cause adverse immune system reactions including autoimmune disorders in Immunological Reactions to DNA and RNA. Scientists in the United Kingdom measured a 50% increase in soy allergies in one year. They believe that the increase in soy allergies may be caused by the increased use of genetically-manipulated soy ingredients.

7)finally, some genetically-manipulated crops are changed so that they produce their own high levels of pesticides. For example, genetically-manipulated "Bt" crops have been shown to emit very high levels of toxins. Plants genetically-manipulated to produce Bt toxin produce at least 1000 times more Bt toxin per acre than does a heavy application of Bt directly on the plants. This may lead to problems with long-term ingestion of such foods (such as non-organic corn and corn-based sweeteners). It has also been shown conclusively in scientific research that the HERBICIDES USED on some of these non-organic, genetically-manipulated plants (e.g., soy, canola, corn) ARE EXTREMELY toxic & CAN CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS.


RISK OF KIDNEY STONES?:

oo much soy could lead to kidney stones
New research indicates that soybeans and soy-based foods, a staple in the diets of many health-conscious consumers, may promote kidney stones in those prone to the painful condition. The finding will be published in the September issue of the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Chemical Society, the world’s largest scientific society.
The researchers measured nearly a dozen varieties of soybeans for oxalate, a compound that can bind with calcium in the kidney to form kidney stones. They also tested 13 types of soy-based foods, finding enough oxalate in each to potentially cause problems for people with a history of kidney stones, according to Linda Massey, Ph.D., at Washington State University in Spokane. The amount of oxalate in the commercial products easily eclipsed the American Dietetic Association’s 10 milligram-per-serving recommendation for patients with kidney stones, with some foods reaching up to 50 times higher than the suggested limit, she noted.

“Under these guidelines, no soybean or soy-[based] food tested could be recommended for consumption by patients with a personal history of kidney stones,” she said.

No one had previously examined soy foods for oxalate, thus the researchers are the first to identify oxalate in store-bought products like tofu, soy cheese and soy drinks. Other foods, such as spinach and rhubarb, also contain significant oxalate levels, but are not as widely consumed for their presumed health benefits, Massey said.

During their testing, the researchers found the highest oxalate levels in textured soy protein, which contains up to 638 milligrams of oxalate per 85-gram serving. Soy cheese had the lowest oxalate content, at 16 milligrams per serving. Spinach, measured during previous research, has approximately 543 milligrams per one-cup (2 oz. fresh) serving.

Soy, a natural source of protein, fiber and healthy oils, is used to enhance a myriad of foods, ranging from hamburgers to ice cream. It can be ground into flour and used in a variety of grain products, or formed into chunks and ground like meat. Soy is also being studied for its potential to lower cholesterol, reduce bone loss and prevent breast cancer. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently approved a new label on foods containing at least 6.25 grams of soy protein per serving that boasts of a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease.

Oxalate, however, cannot be metabolized by the body and is excreted only through urine, Massey said. The compound has no nutritional value, but binds to calcium to form a mass (kidney stones) that can block the urinary system, she said. Further research is needed to find types of soybeans with less oxalate, or to develop a processing method to remove the compound before it reaches consumers, she added.

No one knows precisely why kidney stones occur in particular individuals. But Massey said high levels of oxalate in the urine increase the risk and those with a family history of the ailment are more likely to suffer from the condition; individuals with a low probability of kidney stones are unlikely to be affected by oxalate in soy-based foods.

More than one million people were diagnosed with kidney stones in the United States in 1996, the most recent available data, according to the National Institutes of Health. Stones can range in size from the diameter of a grain of rice to the width of a golf ball. An estimated 10 percent of the U.S. population, mostly men, will develop a kidney stone at some point in their lives, according to the NIH.


CONCLUSION:

1) Based on all the above info., the possible health risks of using soy products/soy protein isolate for your gliders seems to outweigh the possible benefits. However, each member must research the pros and cons of Soy and ultimately make their own decision in the matter.

2)For those using the BML and/or another proven diet, there should be no calcium/protein deficiency issues.


Just do your research and make the decision for yourself - that's the best thing you can do for your suggies. thumb


Edited by LSardou (09/25/08 12:33 PM)
Edit Reason: correction

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#643784 - 09/25/08 08:39 AM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I have to agree, everyone should do the research, however, when you are doing the research PLEASE be sure to be reading UPDATED information (sorry Gina, but that thread is so out of date it really needs to be pulled) and so many new things have been learned.

Also, make sure you are looking up the PROPER things...is doing a research on *Soy* what type of Soy are you researching??
Kind of like fats, cholesterol, proteins, there are MANY different areas and factors and types to look up.
_________________________
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Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#643862 - 09/25/08 11:05 AM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Srlb]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
So last night was their first exposure to HPW. I gave them 3 ice cubes full of the mix. I also threw some mealies in the mix so they would have to fish them out and when biting into the mealie, taste the HPW. There is a little of the mixture left ~ my boy Stitch seemed to really enjoy it, but Tink would take a lick and then leave. They actually left 3 out of the 6 mealies (this is unheard of!)..hmm...They also didn't touch any of their fruits and veggies. Is this normal?

Brenda had suggested mixing it together to see if they would eat it, so that may be the game plan tonight.

Thanks for all of the research and suggestions. I think I'm going to stick with it and see what happens grin
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Sabrina

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#643888 - 09/25/08 12:04 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Ummm Sabrina...how big are your ice cubes?? How much does each one hold? A tablespoon like most?

If so, you WAY overfed!! roflmao You dont want to give but a TEAspoon and a half per glider which would make it one tablespoon per pair...normally that is only one ice cube...

Not eating their fruits and veggies I have heard of often when they start on the HPW. Mine still dont really care for fruits, but will indeed eat their veggies. thumb

mealies are now just a treat.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#643897 - 09/25/08 12:17 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Srlb]
Monster
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Srlb
I have to agree, everyone should do the research, however, when you are doing the research PLEASE be sure to be reading UPDATED information (sorry Gina, but that thread is so out of date it really needs to be pulled) and so many new things have been learned.

Also, make sure you are looking up the PROPER things...is doing a research on *Soy* what type of Soy are you researching??
Kind of like fats, cholesterol, proteins, there are MANY different areas and factors and types to look up.


Peggy, just because research is old, does not always mean it is incorrect or invalid. The earth is still round.

If there is new information that invalidates that post, can you please go through that post and explain what the new information is and why the old info is not a concern anymore? I don't think it's right to ask that the info be pulled without thourough justification.

I am not trying to be a smartalec or difficult, I hope you realize that about me by now Peg, but I think it's very important that glider owners learn not to just discount information relevant to their baby's health just because a respected member of the community told them to. I would like there to be information that we can all see and understand.

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#643910 - 09/25/08 12:36 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
3 cubes - yikes! My guys get 1 cube for two gliders - no wonder they didn't eat it all grin
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3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#643913 - 09/25/08 12:39 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
The earth is still round.


There you go again, thinking just because they make a round globe it means the earth is round!! Kids... roflmao

Im not only talking about the soy part in there Gina, it is also talking about Lima beans, and people tend to think that if their gliders eat lima beans they will die...when I was a newbie here and I read Glideroos post, I FREAKED thinking I was killing my gliders. Ask Alicia, I would argue with her over that. People need to know that cooked or pre-cooked lima beans are NOT toxic.

Soy...well I have 22 gliders, 7 joeys and 2 squirrel gliders that are all alive and well and they eat the HPW every night...now if that was toxic, dont you think they would be dying off? To me, that is outdated information. The same as how it used to be said to feed catfood. Although some still do, many will disagree with the idea.

How many times to do we tell people, yes that is a glider book, however, most of the information in there is outdated?? Why do we do that, because we know that things change constantly and lets face it, those stickies havent changed in YEARS!!! What is the difference between a book becoming outdated and a sticky becoming outdated?

Quote:
I am not trying to be a smartalec or difficult,


Gina, I dont think that about you in the least bit. If anyone knows either of us, they will know we only have the gliders and the gliders owners best interest at heart.

Some of the older information out there tends to start unnecessary panic though and for the most part, most of the info is just opinions and self thoughts anyway...
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#643916 - 09/25/08 12:46 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Srlb]
Monster
Unregistered


Miss P, I have a feeling we have hijacked a thread! roflmao

We may need to start a new one to finish this out!

One final thought, then the mods can slice & dice this thread & move us somewhere more appropo...

I'm not talking about soy being toxic, but there are other factors that were discussed in that article that do make sense and would not cause a problem in the immediate future, however, would most definatly cause a problem over the course of time. For example: oxolates

Think on that a moment...

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#643918 - 09/25/08 12:54 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
The problem is there are risks for everything we use. Too much water can cause death. How much soy is bad? Is a little soy okay? How much soy is actually in the overall mix of HPW? Grapes can also cause death in animals - a documented fact - and people feed those to their gliders without a second thought.
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#643944 - 09/25/08 01:27 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Gossamer]
Monster
Unregistered


LOL - I don't feed grapes either, another topic Peggy & I don't agree on... roflmao

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#643966 - 09/25/08 01:54 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
roflmao Imagine that, two people who disagree on things and still love each other!! hug2
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#643996 - 09/25/08 02:15 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Gossamer]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
Originally Posted By: Gossamer
3 cubes - yikes! My guys get 1 cube for two gliders - no wonder they didn't eat it all grin


Oops..my bad! blush The directions I have did say 1.5 teaspoons per glider..Hmmm..that may explain it! I was wondering how thet would fit all of that food into those tiny little bellies! wink In that case, I think it was a success! Out of the three that I gave them they had maybe the equivalent of a little under 1 ice cube left. Is 2 ice cubes o.k. for 2 gliders if 1 has joeys IP? It is one of the smaller ice cube trays..

Should I try to put it over the fruits and veggies? I want to make sure that they eat enough so they have enough calicum. If they refuse to eat the fruits and veggies, can I dust their mealies with calcium powder?
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#644017 - 09/25/08 02:31 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Srlb]
Monster
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Srlb
roflmao Imagine that, two people who disagree on things and still love each other!! hug2


You know it! Love ya babe hug2 heart

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#644027 - 09/25/08 02:36 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
Monster
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Sabrina
Is 2 ice cubes o.k. for 2 gliders if 1 has joeys IP? It is one of the smaller ice cube trays..

Should I try to put it over the fruits and veggies? I want to make sure that they eat enough so they have enough calicum. If they refuse to eat the fruits and veggies, can I dust their mealies with calcium powder?


I would take one of your empty trays and "test" it - measure out some water to see what each well in your ice cube tray holds - that way you will know exactly how much you're feeding. I wouldn't overfeed the HPW, because then they may not eat enough of their fruits and veggies and that will throw off their diet too - the key is proper portions. I also wouldn't dust the mealies, there's simply no need - overcalcification can be really bad for the joeys and mom & dad.

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#644052 - 09/25/08 03:11 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: ]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
Originally Posted By: Monster
I would take one of your empty trays and "test" it - measure out some water to see what each well in your ice cube tray holds - that way you will know exactly how much you're feeding. I wouldn't overfeed the HPW, because then they may not eat enough of their fruits and veggies and that will throw off their diet too - the key is proper portions. I also wouldn't dust the mealies, there's simply no need - overcalcification can be really bad for the joeys and mom & dad.


Yeah ~ That makes total sense. I'm not quite sure where my brain is today! I'll make sure they get what they're supposed to so they can eat all of their veggies and fruits. Thanks for all of the advice, guys!
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Sabrina

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#644054 - 09/25/08 03:14 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
Adri Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 956
Loc: Homestead, FL
Sabrina, I would not use the calcium powder as it will throw off the balance of the diet. What you can do is make a fruit smoothie, I use 2 oz of fruit juice just to blend I skip the honey so I don't make it too fatning. They love it. Also when making the mixture it calls for 1/2 cup if HPW for breeding pairs.
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Mother of 2
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#644064 - 09/25/08 03:24 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Adri]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
O.k. So if they don't want to eat the veggies, I can substitute a fruit smoothie or veggie relish for the fruits / veggies they won't eat? I'm just concerned about the calcium, that's all. If they get the majority from the fruits / veggies, and they won't eat it, they would need to get it from somewhere else. I think I'm over-thinking this. It was only my first night, so I'll make sure not to feed them too much HPW, and we'll see how they do tonight.

Woah...25 suggies? You've got your hands full!
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Sabrina

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#644066 - 09/25/08 03:26 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: Sabrina]
Monster
Unregistered


Yes, you are over thinking this at this stage. Your first priority needs to be offering the right protion sizes. Give them a couple weeks to get used to that, then you can "think" about it some more... thumb

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#644079 - 09/25/08 03:39 PM Re: I'm am really confused about HPW...help! [Re: ]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
Originally Posted By: Monster
Yes, you are over thinking this at this stage. Your first priority needs to be offering the right protion sizes. Give them a couple weeks to get used to that, then you can "think" about it some more... thumb


That's what I figured. I have a tendency to do that! LOL
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Sabrina

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