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#651458 - 10/06/08 09:38 AM siezure
Miketh
Unregistered


Stomach meet throat.

Last night my wife and I were given quite a scare.

Our gliders were out and running around and playing with us while we were preparing their food for the night.

Our female, Maya, was on my wife's back, and suddenly, she just jumped off onto the floor, which was unusal in of itself (she always jumps to either another person, or a curtain, or some other target).

My wife picked her up, and she started convulsing, or having a siezure. She went really stiff, her arms extended outward, and was convulsing. Then she stopped, and was extremely stiff, not even gripping my wife's hand, just kind of laying there like she was dead. But she was blinking. This happened all so very fast.

My wife called the 24 hour emergency vet clinic, while I started holding her. The vet talked to us, though unfortunately we have no glider experts in the area. As my wife was on the phone, Maya was coming to more and more. Moving more, gripping and holding herself up instead of just stiffly laying there.

The vet said with dogs when they have a siezure, they are often spacey and confused after, which fit Maya's description. The vet's advice was to wait and see if she comes all the way back to normal, and then bring her in if she didn't, or if she had another siezure.

She came completely to within 15 minutes, and began running around, eating, drinking, acting like her normal self. We tried to see if anything looked out of place, like limping, or unable to move her head, or something. She was as squirrelly as ever.

While that's a relief, I'm worried about her. That she's sick. What happened?!? What should I do?

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#651463 - 10/06/08 09:43 AM Re: siezure [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
Sometimes being even slightly dehydrated can make a glider seize. I am not saying that is the case here, but it is one cause. I have not personally dealt with seizures in gliders, but I am sure others with experience will chime in. I am glad they stopped and she is back to herself.
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Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
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#651466 - 10/06/08 09:44 AM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


Well, I have no experience with seizures except to tell you that they're not normal, which of course, you already know.

I do suggest a vet visit whether or not she is acting normal now - this could be an indicator of some other illness.

If you let us know where you are, we can help find you a vet. If you are not comfortable posting your location, you can PM me and I will help you find a vet privatly. To send a PM (Private Message), click on the "My Stuff" tab at the top of the screen, then click "Messages".

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#651491 - 10/06/08 10:18 AM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
I have some experience with seizures. I have one here that has neurological seizures. They are heartbreaking to witness. Miketh - I think we may have spoken before on another site. Welcome to GC.

Here is some info I put together a while ago about seizures:


While not seen in every home, seizures in gliders are not uncommon.

There are several reasons a glider might have a seizure:
1) Dehydration
2) Illness/Disease
3) Neurological seizures

Therefore, it is IMPERATIVE that any glider who experiences a seizure be seen by a vet.
A vet exam for a seizing glider should include tests for dehydration, infection and parasites as well as an overall physical exam. In some cases, x-rays may be taken. It is NECESSARY that infection, illness, disease and dehydration be eliminated as causes of the seizure before a glider is labeled with epilepsy or seizure disorder.

For Dehydration seizures - a vet should adminster sub-q fluids and possibly teach you to administer them for several days following. Make sure the vet tests for any underlying cause of the dehydration. If the seizure was caused by dehydration, it should not recur once the dehydration is remedied. Be sure to monitor for dehydration closely.

For seizures caused by illness or disease - Again, have the vet treat the illness/disease. The seizures should not recur once the illness/disease is treated.

Neurological seizures - come in a variety of types and severity. Your vet will adivse you on courses of action for seizures.

With my glider who experiences seizures, we were able to identify the cause of the seizures to stress/anxiety/excitement. Therefore, I do not treat with any medication. Rather, I strive to eliminate all stress/anxiety from the glider's routine and environment (as much as I can). The difficulty with medication for seizures is that med levels must constantly be monitored through blood draws, which are risky in gliders and can facilitate a seizure themselves.


Edited by Jackie_Chans_Mom (10/06/08 10:19 AM)
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#651506 - 10/06/08 10:38 AM Re: siezure [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Monster
Unregistered


Miketh - I PM'd you vet info. If you click on the flashing envelope at the top center of your screen, it will take you to your inbox thumb

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#651508 - 10/06/08 10:43 AM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Miketh
Unregistered


Thank you for the response Jackie_Chans_Mom.

Yep, I'm the same Miketh from the other site. =)

Monster is helping me locate a more glider knowledgeable vet in our area.

The 24 hour vet clinic has a vet who has seen a number of gliders before, but she admits that this doesn't necessarily make her the go-to person for gliders (I appreciate her honesty).

I don't *think* dehydration is the problem. I only say that, though, because I see her drinking from her water bottle on a regular basis, and some of the treats we give have moisture in them.

Could it be that the air is too dry? Iowa not particularly a dry state, but should we invest in a humidifier?

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#651510 - 10/06/08 10:48 AM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


The GC vet database had a couple of submissions right by them, so hopefully this baby can get seen very soon!

I'm hoping that it is nothing serious hug2

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#651727 - 10/06/08 05:23 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Seizures can also be caused by a hypoglycemic episode. I have a glider that has had two seizures, both after very highly active and stressful encounters in the evening before he had eaten. While we can't be 100% sure that hypoglycemia caused them, my vet feels it was likely given he hadn't eaten all day (as usual) and had a sudden burst of high energy and he is a high stress glider. We keep his stress level low as much as possible and his activity level low until he has eaten and have not had any problems since. dunno

I agree though, vet visit to check for any illness or other problem.
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~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#652343 - 10/07/08 06:05 PM Re: siezure [Re: sugarlope]
Miketh
Unregistered


The vet has mentioned that a lack of calcium could also have caused the seizure, and offered to help us review our diet plan and modify it accordingly. We use a supplement, and give them meal worms (which are supposed to have a little calc.) but maybe our supplement isn't enough. Calcium did seem to be one of the most confusing parts of getting their diet right.

Right now, we try to give them a variety of fruits and veggies, meal worms daily, and Insectivore Fare for their food that they can freely eat all day. We use a vitamin supplement to provide most of the calcium.

What is the best way to get these little guys all the calcium they need? And is the vet right? Could a calc. deficiency have caused Maya's seizure?

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#652350 - 10/07/08 06:17 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


diet does tend to cause quite an upset in these lil guys if it isn't right. As to if it could cause a seizure, I don't know - but I have seen a host of other crazy illnesses & afflictions caused by diet, so it wouldn't suprise me in the least.

I would suggest you take a look at GC's diet links: http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/Glider_Care___Information/Diet___Nutrition/index.html

The most popular diets right now are BML, HPW, and Priscilla's (AKA The Pet Glider Nutrition System).

I use Priscilla's and LOVE it, though I have used the other two in the past.

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#652364 - 10/07/08 06:43 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
kanzakitty
Unregistered


Definitely not an expert on seizures, especially in gliders, but have seen enough in marmosets and cats to have some experience.

Calcium def can definitely cause seizures in other species so am certain it is same in gliders.

To add calcium to your current diet sprinkle a calcium supplement on the fruits, veggies, and worms. You may want to add another protein source to the diet as well, like cooked chicken and eggs. Or you can go with one of the above mentioned diets like BML, HPW, etc.

While this may not be the reason for the seizure, it can help improve supplementing the diet.

One other thing to consider is too many sugary treats, that can cause a hypoglycemic crash and seizure, so really watch sugar intake.

Hope this helps, hopefully this was a one time thing and Maya will be just fine.

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#652368 - 10/07/08 06:49 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Miketh
Unregistered


One thing that has always confused me is the presence of fruit and veggies in sugar glider diets that have < 1 Ca:P ratio.

Every thing on diet always says that the ratio should be > 1 Ca:P; more calcium than phosporus. Yet, I see apples, carrots, blueberries, kiwi, etc... in most of the diets out there, and none of those has a Ca:P ratio greater than 1. Why is that?

Maybe I need to get a new supplement. Is the Rep-Cal + Vionate combo fairly recommended? (seemed to be from the diet DB but thought I'd ask)

I don't mean to change this topic into a diet discussion, I'm sure there are a bazillion of those already. I'm just wanting to address any problems Maya MAY be having right away. So if diet is potentially an issue, I want to eliminate that as a problem.

I will be giving updates on her.

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#652374 - 10/07/08 06:58 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
kanzakitty
Unregistered


personally I use the vionate and glider cal from Exotic nutrition, I don't care for the reptile vitamins for mammals. just my opinion.

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#652383 - 10/07/08 07:16 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
A vitamin is a vitamin is a vitamin. It doesn't become something different just because it is packaged for reptiles. The thing that makes a difference is what ELSE is in the powder. Since I don't feed BML, I can't really tell you what else is in the repcal vitamin supplement right off hand.

I would strongly urge you to follow one of the diets listed in the link above - at least until you DO understand the diet requirements and ratios better.

With the Ca:P ratio - the overall ratio needs to be 2:1. Therefore, you can get the ratio for EACH thing that you are feeding and add them together. The overall total should be at least 2:1.
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#652387 - 10/07/08 07:32 PM Re: siezure [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Miketh
Unregistered


So if blueberries are 0.6 : 1
and raspberries are 1.8 : 1

Then, equal amounts of both of those would be
0.6+1.8 : 1+1 =
2.4 : 2 =
1.2 : 1

Correct?

Even with doing the above diets, they mostly just say something like "mixed fruits and veggies" which doesn't help me much in terms of determining the best things to give to get the Ca:P ratio right.

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#652678 - 10/08/08 07:08 AM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


Right, but the main mix along with the specific vitamin supplement that the diet calls for are designed to compensate for the fruits and veggie portion of the diet. That's why it's so important that you use a proven diet and you stick to it carefully unless you very thouroughly understand glider nutrition and how to formulate a diet correctly, which very few of us do...

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#652804 - 10/08/08 11:34 AM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Miketh
Unregistered


Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Small update:

Maya hasn't had any seizures since the first one. She has been very playful and fun since.

One thing we thought of that may have contributed to the problem: my wife had installed one of those air freshener things that plug into your wall outlet. We removed it in case the smell was bothering her.

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#652843 - 10/08/08 12:14 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I "think" the BML mix has a 4:1? 5:1? ratio (can't remember exactly but it is higher) so that when combined with fruits and vegies, the over all balance comes out to 2:1 ratio.
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I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#652856 - 10/08/08 12:23 PM Re: siezure [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Miketh
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Small update:

Maya hasn't had any seizures since the first one. She has been very playful and fun since.

One thing we thought of that may have contributed to the problem: my wife had installed one of those air freshener things that plug into your wall outlet. We removed it in case the smell was bothering her.


That could very well have been the problem. It's strongly advised NOT to use plug in airfresheners, sprays, scented candles, or incense because the fumes do contain certain levels of toxins that can harm your gliders.

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#653749 - 10/09/08 03:48 PM Re: siezure [Re: LSardou]
Halo
Unregistered


It COULD be Hypoglycemic Periodic Paralysis.. I only suggest it because it's the only thing I've ever experienced.

A glider I was babysitting had a siezure and my nightcare program comes with health insurance, so I boogied him off to the EVC. After a while, she told me it was Hypoglycemic Periodic Paralysis. She gave him some medicine and glideraide and told me to have his momma bring him in the following morning.

I'm not sure what happened after that. :shrug:

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#653762 - 10/09/08 04:03 PM Re: siezure [Re: LSardou]
lindayaks
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: LSardou
Originally Posted By: Miketh
Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Small update:

Maya hasn't had any seizures since the first one. She has been very playful and fun since.

One thing we thought of that may have contributed to the problem: my wife had installed one of those air freshener things that plug into your wall outlet. We removed it in case the smell was bothering her.


That could very well have been the problem. It's strongly advised NOT to use plug in airfresheners, sprays, scented candles, or incense because the fumes do contain certain levels of toxins that can harm your gliders.


I agree! I'm even careful spraying ANYTHING in the house.

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