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#651520 - 10/06/08 11:06 AM New Issue with Fawkes' Family :(
Monster
Unregistered


As if I wasn't worried enough...

For about the last week there has been excessive crabbing coming from Fawkes' remaining family. Upon further investigation, I have discovered that there is a new game going on in that cage - CHASE!

Typically it is one of the twins doing the chasing, and they will chase whomever is closest. Zoe is not completely innocent in all of this, I have witnessed her chase from time to time. There doesn't seem to be any trigger, they even chase when there is no food whatsoever in the cage. They will be playing or sitting perfectly fine, then without warning, one will lunge toward another with a little hiss & they both will be crabbing during the chase. Then all of a sudden they both will stop. Each chase lasts about 10 seconds or less.

I don't understand this behavior. It appears to be aggressive - its NOT play. I don't think the intention is to hurt the glider being chased because when that glider stops, the chaser also stops. Its more like taunting or bullying.

I realize that these gliders are stressed from the loss of Fawkes. And I realize that this is likely a reaction to that stress. What I don't know is how to deal with it. Obviously I can't let it continue. If it were one glider doing the chasing, I could separate that glider out - but like I said, it really is all of them participating.

Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated...

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#651532 - 10/06/08 11:40 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 3201
Loc: Sedona, AZ
Hi Gina,
I had seen this behavior when I had a clan of 6 gliders. It never wound up in a fight (not to say that it can't) but it was almost like there was a "Pecking Order" being set. Maybe with the loss of Fawkes gangel there is some of that going on??? I am glad they are not hurting each other but I would keep an ear open and an eye on them.

Pat
_________________________
Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel

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#651542 - 10/06/08 12:00 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ozzi]
Monster
Unregistered


Thanks Pat, I have been sitting by the door to their room 'spying' - they never ball up or get into it, but it concerns me that what used to be a very content little family is now showing so much aggression towards eachother. Don't get me wrong, they have ALWAYS been my crabby pattys. This group is pouch protective. If you even walk too close to their cage, they will crab - that behavior is normal - but for them to all of a sudden turn the crabbiness on eachother is just makes me cringe. I want them to be happy...

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#651550 - 10/06/08 12:14 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 3201
Loc: Sedona, AZ
I wish we had a better intuition of these little ones.
What I would give-LOL!!!!!

Pat
_________________________
Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel

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#651554 - 10/06/08 12:20 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ozzi]
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
I would guess the same... since fawkes is now gone, maybe they are seeing who takes his place in the balance... I mean if an alpha female dissapeared from a group the remaining females would "compete" to see who will be the new alpha female... sounds like this is what could be happening.
_________________________
Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.

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#651559 - 10/06/08 12:29 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: krysKritters]
Monster
Unregistered


Well, normally I would think that, except Fawkes was the most docile one in the group!

Zoe has always been the most alpha, but now that Fawkes is gone, all this chaos is happening.

Maybe he was one of those 'strong and silent' types & I just didn't understand the dynamic that they had before.


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#651571 - 10/06/08 12:50 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Just because Fawkes was the "strong and silent" type doesn't mean he wasn't the boss. Not all "bosses" are bullies.

sounds like this is what is going on and even Zoe will be involved because she still has to maintain her status both as alpha female but also as MOM. "NOW YOU BOYS JUST STOP!"
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#651575 - 10/06/08 12:55 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: Dancing]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
Actually real bosses don't need to push their weight around, it is just known. They are most likely doing just as has been said, trying to figure out where everyone's place is. As long as no real fighting is going on, try to not stress too much (remember, they will feed off your emotions). They will work it out.
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#651577 - 10/06/08 12:57 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
Monster
Unregistered


I know you guys are right, I mean I knew what you would say before I posted...

It's just so hard to hear all that crabbing & disharmony frown

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#651579 - 10/06/08 12:59 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
I so understand Gina. Last night, I had to pull Wyatt out of his family cage. He and his dad, Bandit, got into it really bad (thankfully, they are both ok). They have never so much as crabbed at each other and they were balled up rolling on the bottom of the cage! Both are neutered and have been together from the day he was oop. He is in a small cage now for a few days, letting things settle. Praying he will be able to go back in......so I feel for you. They sure keep us on our toes....
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#651583 - 10/06/08 01:09 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
Monster
Unregistered


frown I'm sorry about your babies Mary - I hope Wyatt & Bandit can get along again very soon! hug2

I don't know how you human mommies do it - if it's THIS hard to be a fur-mommy! I just want to take all their troubles away...

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#651596 - 10/06/08 01:38 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
It isn't easy, trust me! Yeah, Bandit was so upset last night. Wyatt was a little upset just being in a cage by himself, but had no trouble eating some waxworms (poor Bandit wouldn't touch them and he loves them normally!) Sad thing, I think he was more upset I took Wyatt away. But they were really going at it and I could not risk it (I had to physically seperate them. How neither got hurt, I don't know, but am very thankful! All the gliders were out and acting scared, because there is never a rukus in Bandit's cage. My biggest fear is something is 'up' with Bandit and Wyatt is trying to move up the ladder so to speak. I am watching him very closely. Thanks Gina. The things we moms endure for the love of our babies!


Edited by pappy1264 (10/06/08 01:39 PM)
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#651896 - 10/06/08 10:26 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 3201
Loc: Sedona, AZ
Hi Gina,
I was just wondering how everything is going this evening with your gliders?

Pat
_________________________
Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel

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#651991 - 10/07/08 07:35 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ozzi]
Monster
Unregistered


Not as crabby last night, but still a little chasing going on. Crossing my fingers it'll subside...

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#651995 - 10/07/08 07:50 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
Gina, I don't know if this is the case, but they may be like this off and on for a while. I think Fawkes had a calming nature and it kept everyone on keel, so to speak. Again, as long as no real fighting is taking place, it is ok. I know it is frustration, though.
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#652006 - 10/07/08 08:20 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
Gina I posted about a similar situation that started with my group almost 2wks ago. Same situation a very docile in the background glider leaves the group and then this exact same kind of activity started. It is very confusing- I know my Kairi was not any kind of leader or boss- she was over shadowed by them all when in the group.

The first few nights the chasing was going on quite frequently- it has now slowed down to only 1 or 2 chases a night and the bickering is gone, atleast from what I hear. Their cage is right next to my bed so I pretty much hear everything that goes on.

So hopefully with time yours too will start to calm down. I really wish we knew what they were saying or thinking.
_________________________
Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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#652021 - 10/07/08 08:57 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: jacknsally]
Monster
Unregistered


I remember your post Nancy - I'm hoping they will calm down & that it will not escalate further. I would really hate to have to separate them after all that they have been through. Last night was not too bad, so hopefully it will continue to improve.

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#652058 - 10/07/08 10:49 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
I agree with the others that they are just trying to reestablish a pecking order. I'm not a suggie guru, but I have experience with lots and lots of animals. Fighting is going to happen from time to time even with established groups. Doesn't matter the species. As long as no blood is being drawn and no serious injuries they should be left to work it out.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#652063 - 10/07/08 11:04 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: pappy1264
It isn't easy, trust me! Yeah, Bandit was so upset last night. Wyatt was a little upset just being in a cage by himself, but had no trouble eating some waxworms (poor Bandit wouldn't touch them and he loves them normally!) Sad thing, I think he was more upset I took Wyatt away. But they were really going at it and I could not risk it (I had to physically seperate them. How neither got hurt, I don't know, but am very thankful! All the gliders were out and acting scared, because there is never a rukus in Bandit's cage. My biggest fear is something is 'up' with Bandit and Wyatt is trying to move up the ladder so to speak. I am watching him very closely. Thanks Gina. The things we moms endure for the love of our babies!

How are your babies doing, Mary?
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#652064 - 10/07/08 11:05 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: Monster
I remember your post Nancy - I'm hoping they will calm down & that it will not escalate further. I would really hate to have to separate them after all that they have been through. Last night was not too bad, so hopefully it will continue to improve.

That sure sounds scary! I wish the best for your situation!
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#652095 - 10/07/08 12:05 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: suggiemom1980]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
'How are your babies doing, Mary?'

Wyatt is still seperated, may try him back in there tonight. Bandit misses him, he keeps going to the bottom and will rub and rub where the cages meet....Wyatt seems like he could care less! lol Thanks for asking.
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#652106 - 10/07/08 12:20 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
Monster
Unregistered


Poor Bandit! Hoping things go well tonight hug2

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#652282 - 10/07/08 04:20 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
Thanks Gina. Me, too! He is missing his son something awful......
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#652288 - 10/07/08 04:25 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 3201
Loc: Sedona, AZ
You're breaking my heart Mary!!!!
I hope things go better tonight.
_________________________
Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel

Top
#652289 - 10/07/08 04:27 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ozzi]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
He was out today calling to him, he NEVER is out during the day. He was barking and clicking to him....Wyatt slept through it. He finally went back to bed, but it was heartbreaking. Matter of fact, I think I will pop him in now while everyone is in la la land and keep an ear out.....
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#652294 - 10/07/08 04:35 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
I just put him in, Bandit started barking and making all kinds of chirpy sounds, it was so cute! He was nuzzling with Phoebe. I hope whatever set them off the other night was a one time thing, but I am listening very closely!
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#652418 - 10/07/08 08:37 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Crossing my fingers!!!
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#652465 - 10/07/08 09:36 PM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 3201
Loc: Sedona, AZ
I hope all stays quiet and peaceful Mary.
_________________________
Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel

Top
#652659 - 10/08/08 05:34 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: ozzi]
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 11015
Loc: MA
A good night, no fighting, all quiet!
_________________________
Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary

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#652670 - 10/08/08 06:25 AM Re: New Issue with Fawkes' Family :( [Re: pappy1264]
vagraphix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 3080
Loc: Hampton, Virginia
that is great news
_________________________
Debra
Two sons in the U.S. Army
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dogs: Morgan & Isabella
Bunnies Bob & TMan
gangel RIP Wellington, Minnie & Dazzle bunny, Willow July 6 2013, Squirtle 7-24-09, Maggie May 12-14-10

Licensed wildlife rehabilitator - Cottontail Rabbits & Squirrels

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