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#653626 - 10/09/08 12:23 PM neosporin toxic???
tbull Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3884
Loc: Wyoming
Hi, I took my Storm in to the vet's office for a check up, and was talking to my soon to be back up vet ( He is in the same office as my suggie vet and has been doing ALOT of research on gliders, so that he can treat them when my vet is gone. thumb yes, I am just a touch over protective wink )
Anyway, I was asking about using neosporin without pain relief on small scratches and wounds. He said NO. That without an e-collar on, there are no places that a glider can not get to for grooming, and that the neosporin has antibiodics in it that when injested, can be toxic to such a small animal.

What do you guys think? Is he right?

I think it's great that he has decided to study up on my babies, and it would be nice to have another vet able to see them in an emergency, but I need to be able to trust his advice.
_________________________
T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*


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#653655 - 10/09/08 01:17 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: tbull]
Monster
Unregistered


I have never heard that, but I will ask my vet next time I'm in.

I know I have used it on my gliders before as have many many other glider owners...

Edited to say:

I just remembered that when Fawkes tumor split his side open and I called Dr Kate at home to ask her what to do with it - she had me clean it with tepid water, dry it & keep Neosporin on it until she saw him in the morning - so I guess there's her opinion right there dunno

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#653682 - 10/09/08 02:19 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: tbull]
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 3201
Loc: Sedona, AZ
I have been told to use it by the vet in the past and have used it, sparingly, with no problem dunno

Pat
_________________________
Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel

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#653710 - 10/09/08 02:56 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ozzi]
lindayaks
Unregistered


I have also been told to use it sparingly, but your vet may have new research available. Ask him if he could give you a copy of a report on it, so we can all learn.

My experience with it is that they tend to groom the wounds I put it on more than when I put nothing on. I can't prevent them from grooming with their feet even with an ecollar, and they seem to make the wounds bleed more when I use the neosporin.

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#653753 - 10/09/08 03:55 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ]
tbull Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3884
Loc: Wyoming
Thanks, I will ask him about the research next visit. I know that he has been talking with an exotics specialist at Alameda West or maybe it's East, it's a big teaching vet hospital in Colorado. Also some vet colleges in CO and SD. Maybe they don't see enough gliders, but he did say they were all specialists in exotics. dunno
_________________________
T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*


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#653767 - 10/09/08 04:10 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: tbull]
lindayaks
Unregistered


I believe it. I always had doubts, and after having them over groom to get it off, I just quit using it. I could never picture a petroleum jelly product being good for them to ingest, anyway.

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#653773 - 10/09/08 04:20 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
My vet told me that neosporin would not be good for them to injest and not to use it for that reason.

He gave me Vetropolycin, a bactricin-neomycin-polymyxin ointment. It is apparently safe for them if they happened to lick it off.
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:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow









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#653775 - 10/09/08 04:25 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: SugareeErin]
lindayaks
Unregistered


Thanks. That means more than one vet considers it bad for gliders. I'll ask about Vetropolycin, maybe it has a different base, too.

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#653785 - 10/09/08 04:43 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
A little research...

Neosporin contains bacitracin, neomycin, and polymyxin B.

Vetropolycin contains bacitracin, neomycin and polymyxin B in a base of White Petrolatum and Mineral Oil.

They are the same antibiotic ingredients.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#653786 - 10/09/08 04:44 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
It has a base containing white petrolatum and mineral oil

I will ask my vet more details next time I am in. I know many people here have suggested using it and the overall opinion seems to be it is safe, but when I asked my vet he said no so I trust his opinion.
_________________________

:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow









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#653787 - 10/09/08 04:45 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: SugareeErin]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
So they are the same thing then? Funny.
_________________________

:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow









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#653793 - 10/09/08 04:54 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: SugareeErin]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Also, human grade medications such as neosporin, are more closely regulated for accuracy and sterile manufacturing conditions. I tend to trust human intended items more than vet intended items.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#654120 - 10/10/08 07:12 AM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: Dancing]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Gliders also should not ever have mineral oil. Over large areas, or very deep wounds, neosporin can be bad for humans as well. As in the original post-the kind with pain relief-it's always been recommended here that it not be used unless a glider is in a collar and cannot get at it. Among other things, it may numb the tongue and cause an injury, but on top of that, they shouldn't ingest the numbing agent (or oils if avoidable). Personally, I've had the stuff with pain relief give me a nasty taste in the mouth (indicative of absorption through skin/tissue) when a wound was a little more than minor. A tiny quantity of the regular in a serious situation probably won't hurt, but over time, or depending on amount, certainly it could, whether from the antibiotics or the base ingredients. If neosporin is used on a glider it should be a very very thin layer over only the wound-and not gunked on or thick. Properly used, the kind without pain relief can be helpful in preventing infection and helping a superficial wound or area with stitches heal-but care should always be used to keep any ingestion to an absolute minimum.
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#654620 - 10/10/08 10:10 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: SugareeErin]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: SugareeErin
So they are the same thing then? Funny.


It's knd of a 'brand name' vs. generic thing (just like the store brand triple antibiotic ointments)


Edited by sugarlope (10/10/08 10:11 PM)
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#654644 - 10/10/08 10:52 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: sugarlope]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Neosporin can be used on gliders. Apply a thin covering to wound. It is best to hold the glider for five or ten minutes so it can be asorbed into the tissue due to the fact that a glider will usually lick it off once released. And especially with babies as the parents will clean it off immediately.

Puncture wounds... call your vet as glider may need an oral antibiotic to prevent an infection.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#654646 - 10/10/08 10:56 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: SugareeErin]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: SugareeErin
My vet told me that neosporin would not be good for them to injest and not to use it for that reason.

He gave me Vetropolycin, a bactricin-neomycin-polymyxin ointment. It is apparently safe for them if they happened to lick it off.


I am sitting here reading my tube of Neosporin that lists the EXACT same ingredients as the Vetropolycin.

No difference, except for the price.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#654651 - 10/10/08 11:02 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: Judie]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
While doing some research on this, I found two different answers...

1)Neosporin is a brand name for neomycin sulphate, an antibiotic. It is used to treat bacterial infections, and can come in several forms including a cream and eye drops.
Like any medication there can be side effects, the main one being allergic reaction. This drug can cause serious problems if taken internally (for example, through injection) so it is only prescribed for topical (external) use.
If it is being put onto a wound there may be some absorption into the blood, but this will be minimal and doesn't present a cause for concern.

2) neomycin can indeed be toxic. However, systemic absorption will not occur through topical application - it only happens when the medication is taken internally through oral administration. Toxicity can occur that affecs the kidneys and the ears, but, as I said, this has never been reported in relation to topical application onto a cut.
_________________________
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Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#655944 - 10/13/08 08:44 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: Srlb]
schlep
Unregistered


Neomycin is in the aminoglycoside class of antibiotics. That whole family has the potential of kidney and ear toxicity with systemic use, and in humans we actually measure blood levels to help protect against toxicity. Neomycin has been relegated to a topical role because of that toxicity.

The aminoglycosides are only given for systemic use IV or IM because they have such crummy absorption orally that none would get into the bloodstream. If ingested, the blood levels would be nil. One consideration is that ingesting large amounts could affect gut flora, but any oral antibiotic would be worse. The amount in topical ointment is also low. If infection is present, the risk to benefit equation favors their use. Alternative such a mucipirin (Bactroban) are also in an ointment, so the hydrocarbon issue remains.

Although mineral oil and petroleum jelly are bad in the lung, they are harmless to the gut. Mineral oil is often given to treat constipation and hairballs. With an intact swallow mechanism, the risk of pneumonitis is quite low.

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#655969 - 10/13/08 09:08 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ]
Snoopurr Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 386
Loc: West Babylon, NY
My vet suggested using hydrogen peroxide to clean a wound because it evaporates quickly, and completely harmless if injested. But if injested, it'll make a glider's teeth whiter, just like in human tooth paste.

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#655993 - 10/13/08 09:39 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: Snoopurr]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: Snoopurr
My vet suggested using hydrogen peroxide to clean a wound because it evaporates quickly, and completely harmless if injested. But if injested, it'll make a glider's teeth whiter, just like in human tooth paste.


I wouldn't say completely harmless. You don't want them to lap it up, as it will cause vomiting, and there is a caution on the side of the hydrogen peroxide that cautions to call poison control if ingested. But if you don't leave the area soaking wet, it probably won't be a problem.

It seems like I have heard, though, that hydrogen peroxide is not the best to use on wounds because it inhibits normal healing or something (I can't remember where I heard it though, does that sound right to anyone?) dunno
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#655996 - 10/13/08 09:42 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: Snoopurr]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
By many vets I've been told hydrogen peroxide does more damage than good to most wounds. There are cases where it is used for specific things, but for the most part it kills/damages tissue. There are other anti-bacterial type washes that are much better for wounds than hydrogen peroxide out there.
_________________________
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ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#655998 - 10/13/08 09:44 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Matter of fact, I was told to never use hydrogen peroxide on regular animal wounds at all now that Im thinking about it.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#656003 - 10/13/08 09:47 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
That's what I was thinking (even with people wounds). Thanks Kinue, for confirming.
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#656322 - 10/14/08 02:23 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: sugarlope]
lindayaks
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: sugarlope
[quote=Snoopurr]

It seems like I have heard, though, that hydrogen peroxide is not the best to use on wounds because it inhibits normal healing or something (I can't remember where I heard it though, does that sound right to anyone?) dunno


I asked my vet about this at Scratty's wound check up and she said the same thing about HP, that it inhibits normal healing. She said she would check if there is anything new on the use of Neosporin but that she has also prescribed the eyedrop version of the same antibiotic agents that does not contain the petroleum jelly/mineral oil base for use on small animals.

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#656327 - 10/14/08 02:31 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


My vet told me to use sterile saline or plain luke warm water for debriding wounds.

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#659259 - 10/19/08 11:49 PM Re: neosporin toxic??? [Re: ]
sandbat Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 633
Loc: Dallas, TX
I have heard all sorts of different things from vets regarding Neosporin, from "go ahead" to "sparingly" to "never." My regular vet had me using tobramyacin when Cessna got a pustule on her cloacal area that seemed to clear things up just fine, and also sped up healing on her toes when she started to chew her feet and had to go into an ecollar. I have also had more than one vet prescribe sulfadyne/silverdene creme for topical wounds and infections.

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