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#653751 - 10/09/08 03:52 PM Question about glue
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Ok, so I've asked one of my vets and he told me the same thing the human opthamologist I used to work for told me. I would like more input.

What is the difference between Super Glue and the surgical super glue they use at the vets office or even in humans?

And if they are the same, why is it safe to use when neutering (including the extra drops for the glider to focus on in stead of the surgery site) but it isn't safe to make toys with?
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#653754 - 10/09/08 03:55 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3570
Loc: Kansas City, MO
I always used super glue on cuts and stuff when I was working for a groomer. Stings like crazy but when your in water all the time bandaids just don't work. Dunno about the toys though lmao just thought I would share.
_________________________
~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*

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#653755 - 10/09/08 03:59 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 3420
Loc: Twin Cities, MN
I do not know but with what we have experienced, avoid glue at all costs when possible. Only use it if it is NEEDED. My friends glider had removed his stitch, gotten a scab, then the vet covered the are with glue, three weeks in a collar this boy spent. We tried and tried to ease the glue off, nothing would budge it. We took him to the vet and the vet peeled it away but his fur came along with it, so he was bald and sore. Sore for a day, fur took weeks to grow back. He needed to be collared due to attempt to SM...all around it could have gone better and much faster without that darn glue. He is a very very stubborn boy, well now he is an angel and 100% passive. Lol.
_________________________
~GWEN~
Crazy BF Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Icarus & Ivy; Howie & Gracie; Rei & Syfka; Rafiki & Rajah, Opal, Lily & Link, Tael, Tatl & Navi

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com

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#653758 - 10/09/08 04:01 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Laurens_Babies]
sweetheart26 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 3305
Loc: USA

I always used super on any cuts i get on my hands...im not share why its not safe to use it to make glider toys ..thats a good question to ask..maybe it becouse they would try to eat the glue..but doesnt all glue have to be child safe anyway?
_________________________





mom to sugar gliders storm,thunder,lighting,snowball,rosebud,winter,string,summer fall and sweet.




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#653763 - 10/09/08 04:07 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: sweetheart26]
lindayaks
Unregistered


I believe the surgical super glue is sterile, although I can't imagine bacteria or viral agents surviving in that chemical mix!

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#653770 - 10/09/08 04:18 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: sweetheart26]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
With what I've been reading, this glue was first made way back in 1942. It was used during Vietnam in the field to stop bleeding with severe wounds and saved many many lives.

It wasn't originally approved by the FDA for medical uses though because of the tendency to "irritate the skin" and possibly cause some skin burns. But this is in it's wet form, not after it is dry. However, using it on toys where it is completely dry before allowing the gliders near it, I don't think should be a problem at all.

It also seems to be the same chemical compound used in the "liquid bandages". Now I would't put it on the wound of a glider but if it is safe to use on animals and humans alike, then why would it be unsafe to use on toys?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#653772 - 10/09/08 04:19 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
I believe the surgical super glue is sterile, although I can't imagine bacteria or viral agents surviving in that chemical mix!


That could be but it is (like everything else) only sterile until it comes out of the container. This would be important in wound care but with toys, it shouldn't matter. Trust me, 10 minutes in a glider's cage and NO toy is sterile.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653776 - 10/09/08 04:27 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
lindayaks
Unregistered


roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao

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#653780 - 10/09/08 04:36 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: ]
sweetheart26 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 3305
Loc: USA

lol smile smile
_________________________





mom to sugar gliders storm,thunder,lighting,snowball,rosebud,winter,string,summer fall and sweet.




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#653825 - 10/09/08 05:42 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: sweetheart26]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
I cant seem to find anything listing WHY it is dangerous if ingested, but there are many sources that say if it is ingested (dry) then to seek medical attention immediately. Specifically there is several mentions to the difficulty of swallowing liquid superglue - which I know has not much to do with toys as the glue would be dry. But like I said before, several places say super glue IS toxic and that if it is ingested even when dry to seek medical attention immediately.

Im still searching. If I come up with why I'll post it.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#653875 - 10/09/08 06:39 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
see, I've not found a single site that says it is toxic. Obviously you don't want anything consuming it wet (can you imagine your lips glued to your tongue!) And if it is toxic, then why has the FDA approved it for surgical use?
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653876 - 10/09/08 06:39 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
So what I've been able to gather on this super glue topic is this:

There are two basic types of "super glue":

ethyl cyanoacrylate - which is the one usually found in your household super glue package.

AND

methyl cyanoacrylate - which is usually the formula used in medical grade/surgical glue because of its lower toxicity.

Both are toxic to a degree, if ingested, inhailed, or skin contact. However packages CAN be labeled "non-toxic if used as directed" even when containing either compound.

Ethyl cyanoacrylate if ingested and/or exposed to water to break down will break down into a couple components including formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is dangers and poisonous.

Pretty much that is all I can find on this topic. It sure is HARD to research.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#653895 - 10/09/08 07:01 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Everything I've read so far has to do with both in LIQUID form, not dried form.....researching further....
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653903 - 10/09/08 07:16 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Ethyl 2-cyanoacrylate - is a clear, colourless liquid with a strong, acrid odor. It reacts readily with water to form a solid polymer. It is soluble in methyl ethyl ketone, toluene, acetone, N,N-dimethylformamide, and nitromethane.

Contact with alcohols, amines, or water may cause polymerization.

Degradation products include formaldehyde.

Thermal decomposition products may include hydrogen cyanide and oxides of carbon and nitrogen.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#653904 - 10/09/08 07:18 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Super glue is NOT safe to ingest from everything I can find. Not dry or liquid (although sources say it is almost impossible to ingest liquid super glue lol).
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

Top
#653906 - 10/09/08 07:23 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
By all means, post the links to your sources for me.

Again, I've not found a single source for information on dried glues.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653910 - 10/09/08 07:30 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Do you think Im making these up T? LOL

Im always worried about linking the wrong sites on GC, I do want to keep things G-rated. Would you like me to PM them to you?
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#653921 - 10/09/08 07:51 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Not at all Kinue. Like you, I am trying to do as much research on this as I can and I can't find anything on dried glues (either type). If you don't want to post the links, would you pm them to me?

I just don't understand how they can use it as surgical glue if it is toxic.

I see where the concern for formaldahyde is. Same reason you shouldn't let a child or animal play on new house hold carpet (loaded with formaldahyde!)

I also would like this information, documentation, to pass on to my vet and several others that I know use these glues on animals.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653925 - 10/09/08 07:54 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Oh, I did find on one site where they did some testing with rats. Again, this was liquid form of both types. In one test, they exposed the rats to the vapors. Another where they forced injestion. In the rats that died, the necropsies found large hard masses in the stomach, which they concluded was the polymerized glue. That is why you shouldn't injest it liquid. Seems like a no brainer there to me. lol (again, picturing tongue glued to lips)
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653940 - 10/09/08 08:22 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
You should of found on the same sites that have those stuides - the mention of the degradation of the glue when exposed to water?

And super glue's when exposed to water (like in the body) turn into their dry form IMMEDIATELY. Just because rats were given the liquid form orally, it does not remain liquid once in their system.

In the same study you are referencing they also gave rats much less orally and it was radioactivly detected in their urine, showing it was absorbed into their system.

Its all brought up on google search, there's just alot to pick through and ALOT of reading of BIG articles to find the info. Just those studies weren't ever dont long term and not investigated fully on animals. Sadly.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#653943 - 10/09/08 08:25 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Dry glue breaks down into harmful chemicals, thats why both dry and liquids are dangerous. Not to mention liquids can burn the mouth from the chemical reaction.. But like was said before, super glue companies claim its impossible to swallow super glue, but warn if ingestion occurs to seek medical attention immediately?

I dunno. Weird huh?
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

Top
#653962 - 10/09/08 09:08 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
hipbchik Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 2470
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Wow Teresa...you've ALWAYS been against the use of glue...how much of a kickback are you getting from the sale of the new wheel??
_________________________
peace~carolyn



"Your mind is the birthplace of ingenuity and then you need your heart as the Mediator..." ~Lil C

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#653965 - 10/09/08 09:18 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: hipbchik]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
As I posted on LGG, this has nothing to do with the wheels. NOR do I get any money what so ever from B's wheels. If I choose to buy one, I pay the same as everyone else does. This is not about the wheels.

As I also posted on LGG...

So, if the research shows that the household type of super glue is unsafe, is it safe to use the surgical type to make toys. If not, why?
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653967 - 10/09/08 09:20 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: hipbchik]
Monster
Unregistered


Is there something that we consumers need to know here?

Edited to say that if TGI discontinued the sale of the Custom Cruiser for a safety reason & failed to notify the people who purchased the wheel via THEIR website - they have a legal issue on their hands, and frankly, IF that happened, I would be VERY ANGRY!


Edited by Monster (10/09/08 09:25 PM)

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#653971 - 10/09/08 09:30 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WHEEL!
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653972 - 10/09/08 09:32 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Originally Posted By: Dancing
So, if the research shows that the household type of super glue is unsafe, is it safe to use the surgical type to make toys. If not, why?
Surgical glue is made to glue skin, not plastic or other toy materials. This alone I think would make it unsafe because it's not going to give you as strong a bond as super glue would...
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#653973 - 10/09/08 09:35 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: BeckiT]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
But does that mean that it would be toxic? Also, from what I've read, neither were developed specifically as a medical item. That is just one of the benefits from it.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#653981 - 10/09/08 09:46 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
T, not sure what your issue is, but I won't be risking it with my gliders. If one of yours had an issue with the super glue, I would love to see the results of the necropsy.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#653983 - 10/09/08 09:47 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
hollysmom
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dancing
With what I've been reading, this glue was first made way back in 1942. It was used during Vietnam in the field to stop bleeding with severe wounds and saved many many lives.


I wouldn't rely on what they said the government used during the Vietnam War.....they also used Agent Orange....

and dunno if I can put this hear or not but


Cyanoacrylate (CA) has been used as both a commercial and tissue adhesiveIt can be concluded that, if CA adhesive is used for repair of broken dentures, it will release substances which are toxic to human oral fibroblast cells.

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#653985 - 10/09/08 09:48 PM Re: Question about glue [Re: Dancing]
hipbchik Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 2470
Loc: Tucson, AZ
It has EVERYthing to do with the wheel since SUPER glue was used to lock the crews into place in the wheel, not SURGICAL glue. They have completely different main active ingredients...one is safe for surgical use and one is not.
_________________________
peace~carolyn



"Your mind is the birthplace of ingenuity and then you need your heart as the Mediator..." ~Lil C

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