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#669090 - 11/06/08 01:33 PM Lady Godiva...
Leyna
Unregistered


Lady Godiva is a cremino female that was OOP in January. She came home to me in August and got a clean bill of health from my vet. Last Thursday, I walked into my glider room to discover Godiva, weakly hanging on the side of her cage. I rushed her to my E-vet, where we gave her sub-q fluids, a dose of steroids, and started her on an antibiotic. Her symptoms: Lethargy, Weakness, Dehydration, Lack of Appetite, Lack of Coordination, Head Tilt, and Head Tossing.

While she has improved over the last week, I have been having to sub-q her daily because she refuses to drink water. I've been hand feeding her every 2 hours (she's been eating Vanilla Ensure) and some times she'll only take a mouth full or two, other times, she'll eat 4 or more milliliters at a time. She is still tossing her head and has a head tilt, but she's stronger and has been starting to wonder around her hospital cage (at least as much as she can).

Right now, she is taking clindamycin. She is refusing water, but has been eating progressively more Ensure every day. She is alert and appears to be aware of her surroundings.

My vet did a blood test on her and it came back negative for all known pathogens, including toxoplasmosis.

If anybody has any thoughts or suggestions, feel free to contact me. My vet is more than willing to take any thoughts/ideas into consideration...


Edited by LSardou (11/06/08 01:35 PM)
Edit Reason: edited

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#669092 - 11/06/08 01:39 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


Wow Leyna, I'm very sorry to hear about your girl.

The first thing that came to mind was encephalitis - it can be caused by many many different things...just an idea.

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#669098 - 11/06/08 01:49 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Leyna, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Could this have anything to do with what you went through with Holly? I'm not sure if your vet every decided if it was contagious or not, but did Holly start with some neurological symptoms? That is what came to mind (I have been going through old Health threads lately, which is why it came to mind so immediately).

You might want to have your vet contact Peggy's vet (Dr. Tristan) to see if he has any ideas. dunno

I'm so sorry she's sick. hug2
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#669102 - 11/06/08 01:53 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Leyna
Unregistered


Gina, we have pretty much already concluded that she has some level of inflammation in her brain/spinal column. That's actually why she was given a dose of steroids. We have also been giving her a small dose of Metacam every couple days, but that was more for fever than inflammation, but it helps with both smile She has felt warm to the touch a lot of the time and my vet felt that giving her Metacam wouldn't do any harm and if she does have any pain, inflamation, fever, etc, it would help smile

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#669103 - 11/06/08 01:55 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Leyna
Unregistered


Gretchen, Molly had toxoplasomis. While it's generally spred by direct contact, that was actually the first thing we checked for and Godiva defiantly does not have toxo...

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#669106 - 11/06/08 02:00 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Ok, apparently I missed that, sorry. ohwell
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#669113 - 11/06/08 02:24 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: sugarlope]
Monster
Unregistered


Did she actually have an infection, or did he give the antibiotic prior to the CBC results?

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#669124 - 11/06/08 02:35 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Leyna
Unregistered


My vet did fecals, UA, and a blood draw, then started antibiotics. So the samples were taken prior to any treatment, but we did start a broad spectrum antibiotic immediately (Clavamox). Because she got sick on Thursday, we kind of got caught between a rock in a hard place when it comes to medicating because instead of having the results in 2 days, I had to wait until Monday to get her test results. My vet and I agreed that her chances would be just as good if not better if we at least tried something while waiting for her test results. My vet did decide to change her antibiotic after the test results came in, but that was because of her lack of response to the Clavamox... It had nothing to do with her test results because everything came back normal. We still have a C&S pending... I will say that every day I talk to my vet and every day, she's surprised that Godiva is still here. I honestly have never seen a glider that was a sick as Godiva is and survived for more than a few hours, but day after day, she is still here. She's a tough little lady.

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#669136 - 11/06/08 02:49 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11940
Loc: Wisconsin
Oh how terrible, I will say a prayer for your little girl. I hope you find out what her problem is and that it has a positive prognosis.

Keeping her in my thoughts.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Widget, Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#669144 - 11/06/08 02:55 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


Ok, so no infection - that doesn't rule out virus. With encephalitis, she would be slowly getting better over a week or two with some lasting effects. It is rare, but I think it can also be induced by a brain tumor. What about Lyme disease (or other diseases carried by insects), or Herpes?

There's some great info here:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/encephalitis/DS00226

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#669150 - 11/06/08 03:02 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Leyna
Unregistered


Do you think viral meningitis is a possibility?

**My vet said not to rule out unknown bacteria or protozoal infections.

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#669167 - 11/06/08 03:26 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


Gosh Leyna, with something like this, I don't think I would rule out anything unless your vet has scientifically ruled it out, ya know what I'm saying?

I wish you the best of luck & if I can do anything for ya, even just spend time doing some research - just let me know hug2

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#669200 - 11/06/08 04:28 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
hug2 hug2 hug2 I hope you figure out what is going on! Poor baby!
_________________________

:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow









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#669202 - 11/06/08 04:29 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
josefine Online   content
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2701
Loc: Perry, Iowa
when mine were sick & totally dehydrated, i was going to give them some of the ensure, but suz remembered that it really isn't safe to give them, because it solidifies in the stomache. i don't want to alarm you, so, i will look back @ my pm's, to see if i can find it, or maybe she was telling me this on the phone.
will come back after going to my pm folder.
josefine
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#669226 - 11/06/08 04:55 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: josefine]
Leyna
Unregistered


I know the risk of feeding ensure to a dehydrated glider, but my thoughts are ensure is better than nothing... I have offered her dozens of different things and the only thing she will eat is ensure. She won't even drink water, juice, pedialyte, gatorade, etc. Even if I mix that other stuff with ensure, she will refuse it. So far, she has been peeing and pooping normally.

Unfortunately, I some bad news about Godiva. Over the last few hours, she has developed edema (fluid retention). I have set up an appointment with my vet for tomorrow. So far, she is still stable.

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#669406 - 11/06/08 08:29 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
I am thinking of you Leyna...I am sorry I have no ideas to offer...but big hugs girl!


Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
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#669452 - 11/06/08 09:30 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: Karin]
SweetGliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 2400
Loc: Tulsa, OK, USA
Oh Leyna,

I am so sorry you are going through this with your little girl. Is there any chance she could have an inter-ear infection? I am thinking of the nerological symptons of head tossing and lopsidedness. How much does your baby weigh? Could she have fallen in her weak state and maybe hit her head on something in her cage to have given her a concussion? Sorry I am trying to think of others things. To help out. Have you tried Pedialyte or gliderade?

Anita heart
_________________________
Anita heart
www.mysweetgliders.com

Owned by many Gliders & Cats + Wife to a Wonderful & Understanding Husband


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#669455 - 11/06/08 09:43 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: Karin]
Raquel
Unregistered


I'm so sorry Leyna about your little Girl.
I will be keeping her in my prayers, and you as well. hug2

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#669463 - 11/06/08 10:13 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I see that bacterial infections have been checked for....Leyna have your vet call Tristan and ask him what kind of fungal infections could be the cause of something like that. Many over look fungal infections as they just arent as common as the bacteria ones...just a thought.

Also, for the water retention...best thing to do honestly, I know you said you have tried and cant get her to, but force it if you have to, and that is to get her on regular water or pedialyte...

I already know you are aware that ensure causes dehydration to continue and worsen, so Leyna, please try to get her off of that if there is ANY possible way. With her symptoms and her getting worse, the ensure really worries me, even though it is a good thing to feed when a glider is sick and not dehydrated.

Best of luck.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#669571 - 11/07/08 05:12 AM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: SweetGliders]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
My thought was inner ear infection also as the symptoms you describe are common in rats when they get it. Please update us. wishing you and your baby well.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#669613 - 11/07/08 06:45 AM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: Gossamer]
Monster
Unregistered


As far as forcing fliuds - I don't know if this is possible with a glider, as I have only ever done it on puppies - but is tube feeding an option? I have done this on premie chihuahua puppies that were barely the size of a glider. You have to be very careful about the qty you give, and the time you wait in between, but it would be a way to get the pedialyte and anything else necessary into her if she refuses it. Something to discuss with your vet hug2

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#669628 - 11/07/08 07:35 AM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
glidernanny
Unregistered


have u tried pudding-or maybe watering down some pudding w/pedialyte? i'm sure it's not the healthiest thing for her but if the ensure is causing problems it could be an option-they taste a lot alike to me dunno

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#669653 - 11/07/08 08:34 AM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
SariYappa Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 5997
Loc: Upstate, SC
OMG I'm so sorry for you and your little girl!
Please give us an update...
All I have is good thoughts and positive energy to give, but I hope it's enough!! hug2
_________________________
*Whatever I said, I said it with a Smile*

wave Sari

:grey:Sugar:grey:Nibbles:grey:Destiny

Rapid Runner *Sold Out!

Suggie Smart Mart *Home of The Hippie Pouch & Suggie Chandelier

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#669687 - 11/07/08 09:47 AM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: SariYappa]
Leyna
Unregistered


A little update... This morning, I noticed a very significant improvement with Godiva. She is tracking (following sights/sounds with her ears/eyes/head). It wouldn't seem major to most, but after dealing with other gliders with neuro problems, I know this is an important improvement.

I am also taking Godiva to the vet today @ 2:45. I had to change my appointment time because I now have to bring my kitty in too (she has an abscess on her left hip, poor thing). Her edema has currently subsided. My vet feels that it's probably being caused by being sub-q'ed for 8 days strait. The fluid is just kind of spreading out across her back instead of bubbling up in one place because it's been distended so many times.

Peggy, in regards to the Ensure. I have force fed and hand fed several gliders over the years. Usually once you get the food to a certain point in their mouth/throat and can swallow. Unfortunately, this is not the case with Godiva. She doesn't seem to have the normal swallow/gag reflex most animals have. Because of this, I am unable to force feed her anything frown If she doesn't want it, she just want swallow... It's another issue my vet and I are going to address today. I think we are going to try to tube feed her if we can get a cath that's small enough to go down her throat. Godiva is a petite glider though, so I'm not sure we'll find a cath small enough. She is urinating and defecating normally though, so we have have no intestinal issues as a result of the Ensure.

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#669691 - 11/07/08 09:52 AM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
SariYappa Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 5997
Loc: Upstate, SC
Good Luck!
We'll be waiting for a better update after the vet... better meaning she is doing better! smile smile smile
_________________________
*Whatever I said, I said it with a Smile*

wave Sari

:grey:Sugar:grey:Nibbles:grey:Destiny

Rapid Runner *Sold Out!

Suggie Smart Mart *Home of The Hippie Pouch & Suggie Chandelier

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#669838 - 11/07/08 02:25 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: SariYappa]
Raquel
Unregistered


Happy to hear Godiva had a significant improvement.
Keeping her and you in my prayers. I will be waiting for an update. hug2

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#669847 - 11/07/08 02:42 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


Leyna - I'm not sure if your vet has done a necropsy on a glider before, but when Dr. Kate did Fawkes' I know she looked very closely at his trachea as it was causing him trouble. Knowing her, she took pics of everything. If you aren't sure what size to use, you might have your vet give her a ring since this was so recent, I bet she could give you some insight. 423-391-0303

Edited to say - I've just put in a call to Kate, she was in with a patient, but will call me back...


Edited by Monster (11/07/08 02:46 PM)

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#669848 - 11/07/08 02:42 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
DelilahsMom
Unregistered


Has anyone ever tried to use a thickening agent in water or pedialyte? I know with patients that are on aspiration precautions or dysphagic, we thicken the liquids. It is pretty much just cornstarch. I don't know if that is glider safe. I'm thinking if you took pedialyte, thickened it to nectar consistancy, she may like it. I dunno...

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#669918 - 11/07/08 04:58 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Monster
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Monster
Leyna - I'm not sure if your vet has done a necropsy on a glider before, but when Dr. Kate did Fawkes' I know she looked very closely at his trachea as it was causing him trouble. Knowing her, she took pics of everything. If you aren't sure what size to use, you might have your vet give her a ring since this was so recent, I bet she could give you some insight. 423-391-0303

Edited to say - I've just put in a call to Kate, she was in with a patient, but will call me back...


Just got off the phone with Kate - she said to use an IV catheter (with the needle pulled out) about 1 & 1/2 - 2 inches long. She said anything between 16-20 gauge should not choke her. She said that if you want to use a french catheter, there is a chart to convert 'gauge' to 'french #', but she couldn't find hers, so you would have to ask your vet to convert it for you.

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#669928 - 11/07/08 05:43 PM Re: Lady Godiva... [Re: ]
Leyna
Unregistered


Update: Godiva has gained 2 grams since Monday. She peed twice while at the vets and her urine was nice and clear. My vet said she could see the improvement. Her head tilt is almost gone, she's not throwing her head back any more, and she was even trying to crawl to me when on the exam table smile

We talked on meds and for now, she's on the same antibiotic. We started her back on Metacam for the next few days, for fever and encephalitis. She'll continue to get that until her head tilt is totally gone. For now, as long as she continues to be compliant, my vet wants me to keep sub-qing her vs. stressing her out by cathing her. Also, we discussed the Ensure... My vet feels that for Godiva it's the best option right now because that's what she wants to eat and it for fills all of her nutritional needs. If she starts refusing to let me sub-q her, before she starts drinking water, we'll have to figure something else out, but as long as I can get water into one way or another, the Ensure is fine.

Also, I fed her when we got back from the vet. I managed to get her to drink 1cc of gatorade after giving her her antibiotic (it taste icky) and she drank 3 more cc's of ensure smile She's also been trying to climb around in her cage a little and she was crawling to me at the vets office when I put her on the exam table.

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