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#677801 - 11/20/08 09:38 PM Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
So I've posted about how one of my gliders, Fuzz, has had awful looking fur for a while now, and I've thought it has been because she has been overgrooming. I took her to the vet in July and he gave me some fur and skin wellness thing to put in their food. It didn't solve the problem, but it obviously doesn't hurt anything. Well I took Fuzz in today because she has less and less fur down her back, and it's starting to reach her butt. The vet said that it most likely Scout (my other glider) that is overgrooming Fuzz. All the fur is still intact on her belly, so she must protect that while being submissive to Scout while she overgrooms her. The vet recommended I separate them for a few weeks to see if Fuzz's fur starts to grow back.

I can't really afford to buy a whole other big cage, so do I just buy an ok sized rat cage, put it near the other one, and change them from cage to cage so each one gets the benefits of the large cage and the wheel? I just feel bad for both, because they get along fine, and Scout isn't hurting Fuzz, but I definitely don't want Fuzz looking like this anymore. Anyone have any solutions?

Note: I can post pictures if you want them.

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#677802 - 11/20/08 09:44 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
ORsuggiemomma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2071
Loc: home
I would love to see pics laugh
_________________________
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Mother to~ mloveNathan(5) and mloveDrea(3)
and slave to 4 perfect sugar gliders:glider:
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#677804 - 11/20/08 09:47 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
SweetGliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 2400
Loc: Tulsa, OK, USA
I would recommend getting a small (but not too small of a size bird cage) it will have more room than a rats cage (plus be around the same price). Plus you might be able to fit in a small wodent wheel or silent spinner wheel. You will need to spend lots of time with both gliders upon separating them because they will and can get lonely for each other. You will want to place their cages no more than 8-12 inches apart so they will be close to one another but not to close that they can get to each others tails if the tails get out between the wire.

Hope your baby gets better soon. Pictures would be great!

Anita heart
_________________________
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www.mysweetgliders.com

Owned by many Gliders & Cats + Wife to a Wonderful & Understanding Husband


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#677829 - 11/20/08 10:29 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Hmmmm. I wonder if the female is rubbing the fur off her back from her sleeping pouch? Otherwords... is the pouch cramped with both gliders in it?

Has the vet done a fecal float and fecal smear just to be sure nothing internal is bothering her?
_________________________
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#677839 - 11/20/08 10:36 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: Judie]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
No she did not do either, but Fuzz has been doing this ever since she moved in with Scout. I really don't know how I didn't see this before.

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#677844 - 11/20/08 10:41 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2827891200100622597sanHSm

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2472887110100622597NtcCdk

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2988115250100622597tHoDDy

This is her months ago, and it's only gotten worse. The worse part being that she's losing hair further and further down her back.


Edited by nome63 (11/20/08 10:41 PM)

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#677890 - 11/20/08 11:34 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
I don't mean to alarm you, but that does not look like over grooming. I have a glider that looked nearly identical to that before we found a tumor in her abdomen. You can see my posts about her here (starting with the post showing pictures of Kira's progression of fur growth).

I am very concerned about your girl. We don't know for sure if Kira's tumor is cancerous or not, but it's still there and there are people that have helped me keep her around much longer than we expected. Please let me know if I can help in any way. I will PM you my phone number in case you would like to talk. hug2
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#678254 - 11/21/08 02:32 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: sugarlope]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I tend to agree that it does not look like over grooming either by her or her cage mate.

I would suggest a fecal float and smear as well as a urinalysis to check for any health issues going on. A skin scrape to look for mites as well. Once potential medical reasons are ruled out, then you should look at diet and stress factors that may be the cause.

With my Reep (he came to me almost completely bald), his bald issues stemmed from diet and stress. A healthy change of both situations and he has regained all his beautiful fur and is a good weight now. My vets were unable to ever detect anything "wrong" with him other than the hair loss.

While not a "great" cage for gliders, I do have one that is large enough for one glider (will hold a wheel, door is plenty big enough to get the wheel in and out and toys and all) that I would be willing to send to you for the cost of shipping. This is a temporary cage (should not be used for more than a month) that I use when I have over night, short term guests. Since I've been able to reduce my numbers and also have recently bought new cages, this one is sitting unused. It would be much better than a rat cage.

PM me your address and I can check on the cost of shipping for you.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#679406 - 11/23/08 10:56 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: Dancing]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
I just took some more pictures of what she looks like now. The hair is almost all gone from the top of her head. I'll upload them right now

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#679412 - 11/23/08 11:01 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
ORsuggiemomma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2071
Loc: home
has she gone to an exotic vet? what kinds of tests has she had done? that's so sad frown I hope she's alright.
_________________________
Wifey to heart Frankstone heart
Mother to~ mloveNathan(5) and mloveDrea(3)
and slave to 4 perfect sugar gliders:glider:
Lightning
Mater
Trinity
Eilonwy

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#679430 - 11/23/08 11:17 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: ORsuggiemomma]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
ugh, my camera wont connect to my computer, and it's so frustrating. I'll have to upload them tomorrow, I'm sorry!

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#679432 - 11/23/08 11:17 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
And yes, the vet said she had already seen 5 gliders that week with various illnesses and needs such as neutering

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#679434 - 11/23/08 11:21 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
ORsuggiemomma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2071
Loc: home
I don't understand. did the vet tell you what was wrong? because that hair is not being over groomed it is falling out naturally. is your baby getting treatment, or do they not know what it is yet?
_________________________
Wifey to heart Frankstone heart
Mother to~ mloveNathan(5) and mloveDrea(3)
and slave to 4 perfect sugar gliders:glider:
Lightning
Mater
Trinity
Eilonwy

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#679441 - 11/23/08 11:26 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: ORsuggiemomma]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
The vet said that she is 95% sure the other glider is doing this. But now it looks like the fur is as you said, falling out. But the fact of the matter is that this hair is nowhere to be found in the cage.

Oh and I got my camera to work so I'll be uploading the new pics momentarily

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#679442 - 11/23/08 11:29 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
ORsuggiemomma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2071
Loc: home
k. that just doesn't sound right though. I really don't think that he is overgrooming her at all. I think there is something wrong with her, are there other vets around there?
I would get her to a different vet ASAP! I think there really is something wrong, and I would be very worried, I am very worried. I really hope she is okay.
_________________________
Wifey to heart Frankstone heart
Mother to~ mloveNathan(5) and mloveDrea(3)
and slave to 4 perfect sugar gliders:glider:
Lightning
Mater
Trinity
Eilonwy

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#679446 - 11/23/08 11:33 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
Here they are: Also know that the vet took a look at the base of the hairs and did not believe it had to do with mites, yet she never mentioned cancer. She is only a little over a year old so it's hard to suspect cancer.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2146388200100622597JSpxVq
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2063532190100622597RRsteO
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2069570080100622597ugmHsJ

These pictures are so sad. I just feel awful for her

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#679451 - 11/23/08 11:37 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
ORsuggiemomma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2071
Loc: home
they are sad. and I would take her to a new vet. Gliders can get cancer at any age really. it is not hard to suspect that, but wouldn't you rather find out and get her treated though, instead of just thinking it's ok and then something bad happen to her?

I am very concerned for her.


Edited by ORsuggiemomma (11/23/08 11:38 PM)
_________________________
Wifey to heart Frankstone heart
Mother to~ mloveNathan(5) and mloveDrea(3)
and slave to 4 perfect sugar gliders:glider:
Lightning
Mater
Trinity
Eilonwy

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#679453 - 11/23/08 11:43 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: ORsuggiemomma]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
Thats just the problem, this is the only glider vet in my area. And this vet is highly recommended by Suz

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#679457 - 11/23/08 11:43 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
ORsuggiemomma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2071
Loc: home
well good luck. I really wish you the best. keep us updated on her. cry
_________________________
Wifey to heart Frankstone heart
Mother to~ mloveNathan(5) and mloveDrea(3)
and slave to 4 perfect sugar gliders:glider:
Lightning
Mater
Trinity
Eilonwy

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#679473 - 11/24/08 12:00 AM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: ORsuggiemomma]
chattrbabe Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4108
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Has there ever been a case of Mange in Gliders before?
It really reminds me of that. dunno
_________________________
Ash

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#679478 - 11/24/08 12:09 AM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: chattrbabe]
ORsuggiemomma Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 2071
Loc: home
_________________________
Wifey to heart Frankstone heart
Mother to~ mloveNathan(5) and mloveDrea(3)
and slave to 4 perfect sugar gliders:glider:
Lightning
Mater
Trinity
Eilonwy

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#679490 - 11/24/08 12:31 AM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: ORsuggiemomma]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
I had this long post typed out, but everytime I hit submit tonight, GC is losing my posts.

Anyway...I'm not surprised you aren't finding fur, I never found any when Kira was losing fur either. SG fur is very fine, thin and short so is not easily detected. Healthy SG's shed naturally, but we don't generally notice because of the makeup of the hair.

I just looked it up. I was thinking that Kira was 2 when she lost her fur, but she was about 1 1/2 when she lost most of the fur on her head, over the next several months it got really bad and we ran out of things to test for by the time she was 2. My vet has always thought the fur loss started out as a hormonal issue, which it could have been since the placement of the tumor is behind her pouch (it may have started as an issue with the ovaries or uteri dunno ). Since I will not allow for tumor removal or exploratory surgery, we won't know anything until she is gone.

As for diet (and I agree, there is no way to know for certain what is causing the fur loss), Kira was on BML when she started losing fur (no I do not think BML had anything to do with it). Because several suggested it was a diet issue, we switched to Suncoast, Priscilla's and PML (similar to HPW which wasn't around as it is in it's current form at the time) over the course of 3 years, none of which had any impact on either her fur loss or her eventual weight loss. When the mass was found we started Lord Darcy's full regimine (not just Darcy's diet, but the full protocal Lord Darcy was on when he was sick). Which helped her to regain some of her weight and energy. We started magnet therapy a few months later and her fur started growing back along with a slight pop up in weight as well. The full combination is what was needed to keep her up, short any piece of the puzzle and her weight and energy levels would start to fall off again.

Fuzz may continue on this way for a while (Kira was bald for over 3 years before the vet found the mass in her abdomen), there is no way to know. It sounds like you and your vet are going through what we did (thinking overgrooming, skin scrapes, fecals, etc.) My point in writing all of this is that if Fuzz's case is at all similar, maybe we can give you and Fuzz a head start, at least a direction to look.

You have my number, if you would ever like to talk, please do not hesitate to call. I am wishing only the best for you and Fuzz and I hope that this can all be traced to something easily fixed. hug2
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#679535 - 11/24/08 02:07 AM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: sugarlope]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
The vet may be recommended, but not all vets know everything-good or not. Not meaning to disparage the vet, even mine doesn't know it all, as much as I love her. That is NOT overgrooming IMO-I agree with the other assesments above-in fact, I got a girl (prior to my obtaining her I had paid for her vet care as she belonged to someone else, but was in bad need of it)-who looked like that. By the time the owner relinquished her it was too late to save her. I've seen a lot of overgrooming, caused by bad diet, hormone problems, and illness, and this does not look like overgrooming. It doesn't look like pouch related hair loss, either-as when you have one that sits on their tail in there too much. Overgrooming isn't patchy like that-hair is gone much more evenly whether a large area or a small one when overgrooming is going on.

We had had a skin scraping done to rule out mites, fungus, parasites on the surface, urinalysis, fecals, and a basic blood draw (cbc, calcium, sugars, etc). Tests we were planning on, but didn't get to do, were as follows:

Skin biopsy
Full blood chemistry panel (too look for signs of organ dysfunction/hormonal imbalance)

Something I know now I did not then: Thyroid issues can cause hair loss as well-a thyroid hormone test, such as a T4 panel, may be useful as well.

Evaluation of diet and if the glider may have a problem that prevents them from processing some vitamins/minerals/proteins correctly even when present IN the diet.

As I had placed her with a new owner other than myself (I was at my max with 14 gliders at the time-she died about a week after the move - her cagemate never had an issue and is still doing wonderfully) I didn't have the direct choice of a necropsy and one wasn't done as I would have preferred, so I can say what it WASN'T, but not what it WAS, in this case.

As Teresa said, it could also be stress related or dietary-I would highly recommned PMing her for Reep's diet-one of those things that can't hurt and may help. But I would say that that isn't overgrooming, whatever else it may be. If stress is a factor, separation may only make it worse.

The glider's name we lost to this was Pip and it had gone on just over a year. She was about 2 1/2 years old when she died.


Edited by Xfilefan (11/24/08 02:11 AM)
_________________________
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#679536 - 11/24/08 02:09 AM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: sugarlope]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Most times with overgrooming, you will find little "plugs" of fur. I agree, she doesn't look overgroomed. It looks like something else is going on.

What type of bedding does she sleep in? What diet is she on?

I'm not trying to alarm you, but it looks much more serious than overgrooming or stress. IMO
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#679547 - 11/24/08 05:11 AM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: nome63]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: nome63
Thats just the problem, this is the only glider vet in my area. And this vet is highly recommended by Suz
Which vet is it? Dr. Burton in Columbus? Sorry, I don't remember which one I recommended to you dunno
Anyway, I agree with the other opinions already voiced that the hair loss you have shown pictures of does NOT look like overgrooming at all. I would definitely call Gretchen/sugarlope for information on the full regime of how she has been treating her glider.
Please keep us posted and if you can meet with me, I have a hospital cage you can use while needed for your glider.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#679730 - 11/24/08 11:16 AM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kind of [Re: sugarglidersuz]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
The testing really is necessary for your little girl. There are just so many posibilities as to what could be going on with her. While the testing may all come back negative and not tell you what is going on, it will tell you what is NOT going on. (such as in Reep's case)

When Reep came to me, he was on the Ensure diet. (posted as Darcy's diet but not the full Lord Darcy diet). He was skin and bones. I immedieately started him on BML and he was on it for about 2 months. While we saw no real improvement, we had stopped the hair loss. I had him neutered (yes, his former owner was still breeding him). I then added a pinch of Wambaroo High Protien Suppliment on top of the BML just for his diet. He was eating this for about 2 months and we were seeing new hair growth. Then he stopped eating it. I tried all sorts of "cover ups" to encourage him to eat it but he just refused. I then came up with Reep's diet. (It is under the diets links) He started to really regrow his hair and gain weight and now is doing fantastic.

Like Gretchen, I won't know just what is going on or went on with Reep until after he passes (and yes, I do intend a necropsy on him) which I hope won't be for a very long time. He is now almost 8 years old and just a sweet gentle boy. He does not handle stress well though and will over groom his head a tad bit if he is really stressed. That hasn't happend in a year now though.


Attachments
6-2-05-1.JPG

Description: Reep when he first came to me.


_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#679771 - 11/24/08 12:31 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kin [Re: Dancing]
Nari
Unregistered


Wow, she really looks bad. I am sorry that you are having so many problems with her. That is very sad. I wish I could help. I do have a cage that you can use. I bought a reptarium, so I don't use those white cages anymore. If you would like to borrow one, you can. I would tend to agree with what people have posted. We thought it was stress related overgrooming for a long time, but I don't think that could be it. I hate to say it, but I do think that perhaps she has some serious medical condition. I would suggest printing off some of those posts and letting the vet read them. But, what do I know, I'm not a vet. It did start after she was with Scout. But that could just be a coincidence. If you did separate them, it could take several months to see if any hair grows back. You could try that. But it could also be diet. I don't know how they have been doing with that, but I know when I had them, they weren't really eating a lot of the bml and they would eat all the corn out of the veggies and leave almost everything else. So maybe she is not getting what she needs in the diet. How are they doing with their eating lately?

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#679775 - 11/24/08 12:37 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kin [Re: ]
Nari
Unregistered



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#679781 - 11/24/08 12:45 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kin [Re: ]
Nari
Unregistered


Actually, I remember exactly when it started. Right after I got them back after your Christmas vacation, that's when I first saw hair missing. I took Fuzz out one night and the gray fur, just beside her black stripe, was thin on her head. It happened in just one night. Then it got progressively worse. By February, it was thin around her neck and shoulder blades.

She was fine, then she went to your house, to a cabin, to my boyfriend's house, then to my parent's house. All that moving in just 1 month. We thought it was stress-induced from all the moving.

And before then, she was my most relaxed, easy-going glider. After, she was skittish and jumpy.

Just coincidence? I don't know. It's hard to tell.

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#679916 - 11/24/08 04:07 PM Re: Went to vet, solved my glider fur problem, kin [Re: ]
nome63 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 602
Loc: Ohio
You're right, it's too hard to tell with all of those other problems that occurred. Fuzz still eats all the corn from the veggies within the first 10 minutes, but the bml is all gone when I serve it, and I feed either cantalope, apples, or grapes and they love all three. They never liked the veggie relish. Dancing is actually sending me one of her flight cages, all I had to do was pay for shipping, which was extremely nice of her. And thank you everyone else for your advice and willingness to help. Sugarlope, I'll try and call you when I get more free time, but right now I'm working 2 jobs, so I'm always busy. I'm going to separate them for now and see how it goes, and then if thats not it then I"ll obviously take additional steps


Edited by nome63 (11/24/08 04:07 PM)

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