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#690954 - 12/12/08 02:59 PM Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe?
DARON
Unregistered


If you look at Exotic Nutrition Web Page they now offer giant mealworms but they state you should not feed them as food to animals because of the hormone they are fed. I know a lot of people feed them to their suggies, but Im curious aabout opinions on this matter. I usually feed the Giants.

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#690958 - 12/12/08 03:06 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
Lizz
Unregistered


I don't understand why they would sell giant mealworms if you couldn't feed them to animals...

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#690961 - 12/12/08 03:15 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
I have talked with Grubco about this and they assured me that their Mighty Mealies are safe for animal consumption.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#690986 - 12/12/08 04:11 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
DARON
Unregistered


Lizz, I agree. They have the Giants listed under Fishing Bait. with a disclaimer not to feed to animals. I usually get my from Herpfood & they assured me they are fine. My little girls like them better & they seem to last longer in the fridge. I was really just curious about what others felt.

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#690988 - 12/12/08 04:17 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
I've asked several of the suppliers of the "Mighty Mealies" for the hormone (and/or pesticide in some cases) they use to spray the mealies with/feed them, and none will disclose the info.

In my research however (a post can be found with the info at the link in my siggy) I found that most often the chemicals used to cause the over growth of the mealies DOES indeed cause harm to mammals (liver damage), and especially aquatic animals(extremely poisonous). Additionally some companies/suppliers use normal mealworm pesticides instead of growth hormones (cheaper!) as some pesticides are designed to break the mealie life cycle by not allowing mealworms to turn to pupa and cause abnormal large growth... Causing "Mighty Mealies", but again no one will disclose. Many only provide a feeding warning.

But without knowing WHAT your mealworm provider uses, itís not possible to know if youíre feeding a chemical to your gliders, and the warning from Exotic Nutrition is right on!
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#691211 - 12/12/08 10:28 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
kipluck Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 239
Loc: Orem, UT
Originally Posted By: MatchMakerMagic
I've asked several of the suppliers of the "Mighty Mealies" for the hormone (and/or pesticide in some cases) they use to spray the mealies with/feed them, and none will disclose the info.

In my research however (a post can be found with the info at the link in my siggy) I found that most often the chemicals used to cause the over growth of the mealies DOES indeed cause harm to mammals (liver damage), and especially aquatic animals(extremely poisonous). Additionally some companies/suppliers use normal mealworm pesticides instead of growth hormones (cheaper!) as some pesticides are designed to break the mealie life cycle by not allowing mealworms to turn to pupa and cause abnormal large growth... Causing "Mighty Mealies", but again no one will disclose. Many only provide a feeding warning.

But without knowing WHAT your mealworm provider uses, itís not possible to know if youíre feeding a chemical to your gliders, and the warning from Exotic Nutrition is right on!
Which is pretty much why I have quit feeding ANY commercial mealworms. Granted, my initial stock came from Grubco, I think (now I have forgotten) but my mealies are SEVERAL generations removed now anyway, since it's been a couple years.

I just don't trust anyone it seems. My roomie grows an organic garden... I grow organic bugs! hee hee!

I am going to start raising Hissers next month (YAY! I am excited!!!) and have been thinking about crickets too, but have done crickets in the past and hated the smell. I have also thought about mice (since I love them as pets anyway!) but don't know if I could KILL them! How do people who raise them as feeders kill them humanely?

See, I am considering SELLING feeders (Hissing Cockroaches... as pets, too, mealies, etc) locally and thought it would be profitable to branch out, but I don't know how to kill things nicely that have such sweet faces. Mostly, though, I just wanted to not feed my babies chemicals. My gliders or my turtle.
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BethAnn aka: Kipluck
I miss you, my babies, Epiphany Jo, Lilo,& Heber! :rbridge: :rbridge: :rbridge: http://www.sugarshock.homestead.com
http://www.critters2go.homestead.com

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#691366 - 12/13/08 02:07 AM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: kipluck]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
mighty mealies bite
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Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

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#691394 - 12/13/08 05:16 AM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: Bourbon]
chattrbabe Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4108
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
mighty mealies bite


Not if you squarsh their heads!!! tounge roflmao
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Ash

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#691727 - 12/13/08 06:04 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: chattrbabe]
sketchyglider Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 928
Loc: Poynette, WI
ew!
_________________________
Jessee slave to:
Ender :rtmo: & Valentine :leu: and 1 non-fuzzy kid Carleigh

I am SOOOOOO happy to finally be able to have my gliders back home with me! I have missed my babies soo much <3

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#691788 - 12/13/08 08:03 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: Bourbon]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
mighty mealies bite


Never had one bite me. But I've had a close call with a Super Worm!!! Those are NASTY buggers!
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#691789 - 12/13/08 08:05 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Super worms bite! I think Mighties and Giants are the same as just mealworms - only they are hormonally charged.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#693018 - 12/15/08 12:16 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
DARON
Unregistered


Thats Correct Alden. Herpfood says their Giants(Mightes) are safe to feed. I have been feeding only Giant & Mighties from a few places the last couple years and never had one bite. (According to Herp they are not capable of biting, but the Super worms do). I have heard that before about supers & thats why I chose not to feed them to my crew.

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#693020 - 12/15/08 12:18 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
DARON
Unregistered


I have had my farm now for about 8 months, but mine only get to large. Havent figured out how to grow Giants yet. I usually sell mine & buy Giants.

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#693039 - 12/15/08 12:46 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Giants are hormonally charged. They are fed growth hormones. I don't feed giants to my gliders for that reason.

I don't think you can just grow them on your own ... you have to feed 'em growth hormones.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#693102 - 12/15/08 01:48 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
DARON
Unregistered


Yeah your right. I've ben trying to find out what the hormone is & how to get it so I can grow them myself. My crew just likes them better because they are fat & crunch more.

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#693117 - 12/15/08 02:16 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Mighties/Giants do NOT bite. They are just a large mealworm. Superworms DO bite. They are not a mealworm, but a separate species.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#693138 - 12/15/08 03:22 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Originally Posted By: DARON
Yeah your right. I've ben trying to find out what the hormone is & how to get it so I can grow them myself. My crew just likes them better because they are fat & crunch more.


Its not hard finding growth hormones for mealies, or even the pesticides that are sometimes used (like for bait worms). However what IS hard is finding out what the suppliers are using.

The hormones are sold in bulk (barrels). And usually either sprayed directly onto the mealies or their feed.

Good luck in your search. Do let us know what/if you find anything.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#693140 - 12/15/08 03:24 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Oh, thought though I would mention - most of the ones I did find have adverse effects on mammals and aquatic species of animals. So if you do find one, be sure to make sure you look up the effects on gliders. frown I was highly disappointed to find out the "popular" ones were toxic to many kinds of species.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#693164 - 12/15/08 04:06 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
This is from Sherita Turner at Grubco.com

We do not use any type of hormone, chemical, pesticide, etc. to raise mighty mealys.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#693597 - 12/16/08 05:51 AM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Normal mealies do not grow to that size without being treated. And this trait (large size) is passed down to off-spring for a generation or so providing the parents aren't too deformed to reproduce.

Strange they would say they use nothing.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#693617 - 12/16/08 06:54 AM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
They didn't say they used nothing, just not any hormones, pesticides, chemicals, etc. I have asked them this twice now, once about 2 years ago.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#694091 - 12/16/08 08:13 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Well in the research I did I could not find a documented way to prevent or hold off the pupa stage (resulting in massive size) that was not chemical/pesticide or hormone. There was only minimal talk about a "natural" method that was also "minimally" effective.

Strange though they wont tell you how. That would concern me in itself.


Edited by MatchMakerMagic (12/16/08 08:14 PM)
Edit Reason: finished statement lol
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#694185 - 12/16/08 10:53 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
I do notice with my mealies that they start getting smaller the longer I have them, even when they are out and continuously eating. Also, mine do go on to reproduce normally.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#694186 - 12/16/08 10:53 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Forgot to add that although they reproduce normally, their offspring are normal mealie size, and not mightie mealies.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#694648 - 12/17/08 03:35 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
I had the exact opposite findings when I let the Mightys grow out. I kept two separate farms - one regular "large" mealies and one with the Mighties. The regulars are all the same size, and I've now had the chance to have several generations of them and they've remained the same "large" size the originals came.

However the Mighties were another story. Alot of them did turn into huge pupa, then died. Of the many pupa, some did finally (and I did notice it took them MUCH longer than the regular guys to change) morph to huge beetles, but some of the beetles were deformed looking. Strange upward pointing wings, creamy bodies showing and such. Very weird. But those beetles DID go on to reproduce, even though they aren't supposed to be able to. The "hormone" (or pesticide) is supposed to make them sterile. They produce less eggs in the same environment side by side as the regular mealies do, but they can reproduce. I've my own conclusions as to why, but either way unimportant.

What is interesting is for several more generations they were significantly larger, the first and second generations after that first complete life cycle they were the same size as the treated ones. Which meant to me it was some how etched into their DNA maybe. Who knows for sure. But they certainly were larger. Upon this discovery I did not use them for glider food any longer. Period. And began my research into mealie "hormones" and/or pesticides, and also requested the info from the venders who refused to disclose.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#694668 - 12/17/08 04:21 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered


What is the size range for these categories??? I ordered mealies from NYWorms... and some of them are now over an inch long! Easily twice the size they were when I got them as mediums! LOL

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#694672 - 12/17/08 04:27 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: ]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
Mighties are actually labeled as Giants or Mighties on the sites.
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#694703 - 12/17/08 05:44 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Originally Posted By: princessmegi
Mighties are actually labeled as Giants or Mighties on the sites.


Yep. They are twice as large/thick as the "large" size and are sold accordingly.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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#694714 - 12/17/08 06:07 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: MatchMakerMagic]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
I know. I was trying to tell BellaDonnasMom that they are sold separately and it's not just a size thing. Meaning if she orders Med or Lg mealies and they are over an inch long that that makes them mighties or something.

Pic 1 - Large Mealies on Left. Mightie Mealies on Right. 2 Large Aliens on Left. 2 Large Mightie Aliens on Right.



Pic 2 - Mightie Mealie on top with Large Mealie directly under and against it.


Pic 3 - Large Mealie on Quarter


Pic 4 - Mightie Mealie on Quarter
_________________________

"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist

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#694737 - 12/17/08 06:50 PM Re: Mighty or Giant Mealworms. How Safe? [Re: princessmegi]
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 2785
Loc: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Perfect examples/photo's Megi. Your right about the pricing and the sizes. "Large" wont grow out to be "Mighties" its how they come to you. Mediums will get to "large" size, but generally not Mighty proportions. Though you might have a couple real big ones from time to time. smile Excellent photos.
_________________________
Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com

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