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#6930 - 05/26/03 12:00 PM Head bobbing?
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Gladys' history: A bout of giardia last year has left her sallow and underweight (about 74-76 grams), apparently infertile, but she has done well since the course of antibiotics. She's currently "off" BML due to her insistence that has doesn't like it, and has done well for a couple of months on Darcy's diet. I knew the risks of an unproven (less than 3 generations) diet, but was willing to risk it to see her eat and perhaps gain weight. I will probably start her back on BML today if she will eat it.

A couple of days ago I noticed that she has started doing a few things that concern me. a) She wants to be with me (if you know my Gladys, you'll know she only does this when she wants or needs something), b) she's eating slowly, which she did last year when she was sick, and c) she appears to have some head bobbing. It's not body shaking -- not seizures, but just apparent uncontrollable head movement. It's not extreme, and it's not all the time, but it's a little worrisome.

I'll take her to the vet tomorrow, and my vet will see my gliders on emergency because I'm an established patient if necessary, but I like to document things on the board to see if others have experienced similar situations --

Has anyone seen this in their gliders before? If so, what was the cause, and treatment?

Note: Her activity level is normal, she's not dehydrated, she's eating well (in fact seems hungry all the time), she continues a little sallow (I'm sure there was some liver damage last year with the giardia -- it is better than it was, but I suspect she will always be a little yellowish). I've attached a picture from this morning.

Any ideas?


Attachments
100356-2003constructionstart and Gladys 038a.jpg (132 downloads)

_________________________


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#6931 - 05/26/03 12:07 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Gosh Lucy....so sorry to hear Gladys is ill again. sounds like she needs vet care ASAP.

What do you mean by head bobbing? Never head of it in gliders.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#6932 - 05/26/03 12:13 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Do you think? I'm not sure it's an emergency...she's hydrated and comfortable and I'm not even sure there's a problem....???

It's hard to describe the head bobbing. It's just head movement -- very slight -- and I might just have too much time on my hands this weekend and am creating a mountain out of a molehill. I'm not entirely sure there is a problem. I just don't know. I gave her a dose of neocalglucom last night, but I'm not sure that helped. So I'm almost ruling out calcium deficiency, unless the giardia or other parasite have returned and she's not absorbing it.

I don't know what I'm looking at. The changes are so subtle that it might be nothing. Does it sound like an emergency call is necessary? Everything else seems normal. Pee, Poop, Play....
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#6933 - 05/26/03 12:20 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I agree with you it can wait till tomorrow but think I would put a call into the vet at least for pease of mind.

The head bobbing and change in behavior is usually a sure sign something is wrong with Gladys.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#6934 - 05/26/03 12:23 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy,
i looked at her pic, and for some reason i feel she's uncomfortable. You might be right on about the giardia having returned, or possibly another parasite, that was really my first thought as well. She sure is cute tho.

Considering her past, i wouldn't hesitate taking her in, as i feel if she is sick again chances of her coming though are going to be slimmer than before. Things like that don't leave a glider unharmed, as you said she might have a slight case of liverdamage to begin with.

Trust your instincts, and go ahead and get her checked.

Tanja

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#6935 - 05/26/03 12:33 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Hi, Tanja. In that picture she was in the process of eating...here is another one from this morning, though blurry.


Attachments
100369-2003constructionstart and Gladys 035a.jpg (73 downloads)

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#6936 - 05/26/03 03:28 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just want to say I'll be thinking of you and of Gladys! I hope and pray it's nothing serious. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> Remember your own advice: ANY change in behavior - vet check is in order, ASAP. I'll be watching the board for updates.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

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#6937 - 05/26/03 03:46 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


In humans, I know head bobbing is one symptom of respiratory distress. I am not a vet, but I have found that gliders and humans respond very similarly to the same illnesses. However, gliders tend to respond more quickly and much more severely to illnesses than their human counterparts due to their shear size. However, any stress (ie illness) causes the heart to beat more rapidly and in doing so the respiratory rate also increases and you may see head bobbing just because of a more rapid respiratory rate. But this may not be related to a pulmonary illness, rather it may be a secondary symptom of a more systemic process. In otherwords, you have made the right decision in carrying your baby to the vet. Hopefully you are a hypervigilant mommie and your baby will be fine. And not all human symptoms are applicable to gliders, but it sure has helped me with mine.

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#6938 - 05/26/03 04:38 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Thanks, crittermom (and the rest of you!). She will see the vet tomorrow. I don't see any other signs of respiratory distress, but I'm sure not going to rule that out. That's very interesting, and I appreciate your posting it! It could be a symptom of an increased load on the heart due to another illness, so I think your input is very valuable! I didn't know that about humans and head bobbing, but that sure makes sense. Thanks again!
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#6939 - 05/26/03 07:02 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Awww you and Gladys are in my prayers... let us know any updates.

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#6940 - 05/26/03 07:45 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Follow your gut Lucy...will be thinking and praying for you and Ms. Glady's throughout the night and tomorrow.

Glider hugs,
Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
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#6941 - 05/26/03 09:13 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Tonight's update: I talked to my wonderful vet, since it looks like Gladys is slightly dehydrated and had a clay colored stool tonight (just like at the SGGA). I'll give her some sub-q fluid tonight and watch her closely, and take her in tomorrow -- or tonight if needed.
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#6942 - 05/26/03 09:39 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just wanted to add my two cents........I noticed in the 1st pic that her nails are pretty yellow. I know in humans this is a sign of jaundice; whether this problem affects gliders I do not know but may be something to ask your vet about also <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> Prayers are with you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#6943 - 05/26/03 11:06 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: msparks]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Sending prayers your way for both you and your Gladys.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#6944 - 05/26/03 11:48 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: msparks]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
Dee, the yellowish tint has been there since she was sick the first time. It's not as bad as it was, but it's still definitely there. This is probably related to the giardia last year, but wouldn't be CAUSED by it -- it's possible that in the midst of having the giardia and not having nutrients absorbed well, that some sort of problem happened with her liver or other internal organs. We won't know until or unless we can have a blood test tomorrow. We didn't have one done last summer because she was so weak.

I was reminded in talking to Bruce and Ellen tonight that if there's a chance that there's been hepactic (liver) involvement, you should watch out and not feed much protein. A lot of diets these days are including a great deal of protein, so that probably needs mentioning...

Anyway, she goes to the vet at 8:30 in the morning -- thanks for your thoughts and prayers! One thing about Gladys (like many gliders) is that she really fights hard -- almost no one thought she'd live through the last SGGA, and she's still here a year later. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________


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#6945 - 05/27/03 02:11 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy, I've learned if instinct says something is wrong, get it checked out!!! Better to get an all clear rather than ignore it and he/she be super sick! Hugs and prayers for you and Gladys!

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#6946 - 05/27/03 09:33 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Awww the poor lil one.. well give us an update as soon as you can but remember that taking care of her comes first <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#6947 - 05/27/03 09:52 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
She's at the vet's now, and will be checked out today while I work to pay the vet bill <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Update later.
_________________________


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#6948 - 05/27/03 11:05 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've been following. My prayers are with you, too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />

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#6949 - 05/27/03 02:04 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
The vet report on Gladys: The good news is that she doesn't have giardia. The bad news is, just as crittermom suggested, she has pneumonia and can barely breathe. That explains the head-nodding, and to some degree, the current color. Under oxygen, she even "pinked up," the vet said, though there will still need to be an investigation of some anemia/possible liver damage once she's better and they can actually draw blood and do some other tests.

The other cause of concern per the vet was her urine, which she said was bright orange -- which could be a number of things (we ruled out food). Again, we could be looking at liver problems but don't know yet.

I feel so bad that I didn't know she was having trouble breathing. There was no indication -- no raspy respirations, no mouth-opening. How else do you identify respiratory distress in gliders? I'd really like to know for future reference. How have you identified respiratory distress in your gliders in time to get them help before it got really bad for them?

For tonight, she'll stay on oxygen, and hopefully antibiotics will begin to work on the pneumonia. As for the rest, we'll have to see what the tests, once we can get them, reveal....

She's grooming and eating now, and apparently comfortable on oxygen. Is there something else I should have looked for?
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#6950 - 05/27/03 04:40 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy - I'm so sorry about all this! Thank goodness Gladys is holding her own with the oxygen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> I can tell you, from my experience, that quick in & out movement at the base of the ribs, when looking at a glider's back, is indicative of stressful breathing. The vet explained to me that it was caused by gasping. Bugsy did this when he broke his clavical, thus in pain. However, I would think that breathing distress, in pain or not, would still be the same. Just something to put into your memory for future reference..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

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#6951 - 05/27/03 04:51 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy, I think your maternal instincts told you something was wrong, maybe not what, or what to do about it, but enough you knew to get her to the vet. That's what counts. I'm glad she's going to be ok! I think this is one more thing to remind us all to be observant of our glider's behavior and any change in it is indicative of something is wrong!
Let us know what else the vet comes up with!

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#6952 - 05/27/03 06:31 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy I don't think you could have watched more closely if you'd been inside the cage with her! In her weakened condition(from the giardia) she is susceptible(sp) to any number of opportunistic infections. The bacteria could be in her system already, just lying in wait for something to mitigate its growth. Thats what happened to Dawn with the staph infection. I pray your girl makes it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />

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#6953 - 05/27/03 11:22 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Sending prayers for both of you. Gladys is a little fighter so hang in there with her.

_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#6954 - 05/27/03 11:27 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Even bigger glider hugs and prayers for you and Glady's.

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#6955 - 05/27/03 11:37 PM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
Lucy, hopefully you caught this in time to help her recover.
_________________________
ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL

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#6956 - 05/28/03 12:50 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Maxx, Mia and myself send lots of love and prayers for you and Gladys. We're all hoping for a speedy recovery.

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#6957 - 05/28/03 06:56 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lucy,
Headbobbing is one of the first symptoms of pneumonia. Coughing, raspy breath, ect. tend to be later. I am a pediatric nurse at a hospital and I have had parents who have brought children in on death's door who had no idea that their children were even sick until it was almost too late. I commend you for catching this subtle hint. Most parents don't even catch it on their large little ones....it testifies how good of a parent you are to you small little one. I will keep you and your baby in my prayers.

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#6958 - 05/28/03 09:00 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Lucy Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 7354
Loc: Lexington, KY
The news this morning is not good. She's no better, may even be weaker, even on oxygen and antibiotics. Dr. Z. put her on Lasix this morning to see if that helps facilitate the breathing, and continued the antibiotics. If it doesn't help, we may be looking at cardiac failure. If that's the case, I may opt to go ahead and have her euthanized, as much as it pains me, as I can't stand seeing her in this much distress. It has to be very painful for her to struggle to breathe.

This could be a very long day. Your thoughts and prayers are so appreciated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________


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#6959 - 05/28/03 09:09 AM Re: Head bobbing? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
So sorry to hear the news. Will continue to send prayers.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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