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#710266 - 01/09/09 02:21 AM balance
tan
Unregistered


Hello everyone, I have a question about my suggie Abu. Well tonight when it was time to eat Abu(my fluffy boy) just kinda fell off of his food bowl and sort of rolled on his back but got right back up again. I have never seen him do this before. I don't know if he just lost his balance or what happened but i saw him do it and i almost laughed at the site of him just falling over but then i started worrying. They do have a new food bowl that is alot shorter than their old one, maybe that was what caused hime to to that? Has anyone ever had a glider that did something like this? Should i be worried or just keep an eye on him? thanks for any advice.

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#710291 - 01/09/09 04:40 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Tanya, Gliders generally have excellent balance and don't normally fall or tip over in the way that you've described. I would definitely keep a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't do it again. A vet check would be a good idea, too, to make sure he isn't fighting some type of inner-ear infection or something that would affect his balance.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#710301 - 01/09/09 05:38 AM Re: balance [Re: sugarglidersuz]
tan
Unregistered


Thanks for the info Suz and, Val is going to be taking him to her vet in Tulsa next week. His cheek has something wrong with it and none of the antibodies we have put him on are working, it keeps swelling up as soon as he is finished taking them, it has happened 3-4 times now. I hope he will be okay until then but if something happens I live in the same town as Val so i can take abu to her and she will be able to help me. Sorry this is so long. I didn't think his cheek swelling would have anything to do with him falling but you never know.

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#710334 - 01/09/09 07:30 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Quote:
none of the antibodies we have put him on are working, it keeps swelling up as soon as he is finished taking them, it has happened 3-4 times now


How long has each course of meds been for? If it's taking the swelling down, it sounds like it's working, just not being given for a long enough course-plus with each go round you risk a strain that becomes more resistant to the antibiotic-or the infection may be in the bony structure, which would also require a longer than average course to treat. Usually when it's the wrong antibiotic for the bug-the symptoms diminish little if at all.

Glider's typically require a 14 day course for an initial infection-they metabolize the meds slower than most animals-if you're dealing with a resistant strain or bone infection it can take a number of weeks on an antibiotic even when it's the right med, or it just comes back because the glider hasn't been on it long enough to get it all and it breeds back up-usually more resistant at that point, and with each time it's knocked down only to regrow.

Edited to add: how "fluffy" is fluffy? If his legs won't support his weight that could be an issue-or part of it if the facial infection is affecting an ear--which if it's recurring could have spread that far. An Xray would be a good idea at this point as well to see if the infection is invading bony tissue also.


Edited by Xfilefan (01/09/09 08:19 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#710359 - 01/09/09 08:28 AM Re: balance [Re: Xfilefan]
tan
Unregistered


The first time he was on them 10 days because that is how long the vet told us to give to him, also when she saw him his cheek was really swollen and so she lanced it and alot of pus came out but she never did a culture on it to determine what it was, dunno just gave me antibotics. I gave him the full dose and about a couple weeks later it swelled again so i called my vet and told her and she said to come by and get some more antibotics(same kind as before) shakehead well this happenes 1 more time and that is about the time i met Val(Jackie Chans Mom) who i luckly live in the same town as and she told me the same thing that you just wrote. So we are taking him to her vet in Tulsa next week. Again sorry for the long story. Oh yea the last round of antibotics he was on i gave for at least 3 weeks or more and the day after his last dose, his cheek started swelling again. thanks for the info.

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#710362 - 01/09/09 08:32 AM Re: balance [Re: Xfilefan]
tan
Unregistered



Edited to add: how "fluffy" is fluffy? If his legs won't support his weight that could be an issue-or part of it if the facial infection is affecting an ear--which if it's recurring could have spread that far. An Xray would be a good idea at this point as well to see if the infection is invading bony tissue also.[/quote] Last time i weighed him he was 141 grams.


Edited by tan (01/09/09 08:33 AM)

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#710371 - 01/09/09 08:47 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
After several recurrences with facial infections, and having it finally spread into his sinus and the bones of his skull, My Riker ultimately (after 6 or so go rounds/recurrences over a year) went on a cocktail of 2 antibiotics for 2 months, then 3 for 12 weeks to finally clear it, as the recurrences, and too short a duration of meds, had made it resistant. Just something to consider-if your guy were mine at this point, I would have the vet redrain the cheek and send the contents for culture (provided he's been off meds for at least 3-5 days prior to sample collection or it skews the results), and start a 4-6 week course of 1-either Baytril or Clindamycin (both good broad spectrum) AND 2. Flagyl-this is because facial abscesses frequently contain anaerobic bacteria (those that grow without air), and most antibiotics don't work well on those, but Flagyl (aka metronidazole) does. The second antibiotic covers anything else, including what MAY get in an open wound, which is a concern with a lanced wound.

Riker's final cocktail was Clindamycin, Clavamox, and Flagyl, twice a day for 12 weeks, but he'd been on round after round and all else had failed. After 4 failed rounds of too short duration the Baytril wouldn't work at all any more. Also, he had nothing we could culture-although swollen, the infection was diffused through the tissue with no pocket to drain, and into bone finally (showed up on Xray, but not until about 6 months in)-we tried a combo to cover the widest possible spectrum. I don't recommend going that far until everything short of it has failed though-through him we learned a lot about recurrent infections in gliders, though-he was 2 when this began-3 when it finally ended...and is now 6 and thankfully it has never come back.

I'd love an update after the vet on your guy, and wish him lots of luck, and healing.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#710373 - 01/09/09 08:50 AM Re: balance [Re: Xfilefan]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
And 141 doesn't sound too big unless he's a REALLY small glider. smile
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#710453 - 01/09/09 10:38 AM Re: balance [Re: Xfilefan]
tan
Unregistered


Baytril was/is the last antibotic he took and is now back on until we get him to the vet. After i met Val she took abu back to the same vet and told the vet to do a culture on his cheek, which they did and when we finally got the results back(almost 2 weeks later) we were told it was enterobacter in other words bacteria which we then gave baytril. Is bacteria what was wrong with your gliders cheek? Also glad to hear that he made it through and is doing great. oh yea Abu is not a small glider, his brother Dante however is a small glider. Abu is quite a lot bigger than he was when i first got him. I have only had them since last August. Here's some pics. http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo312/taner69/abu005-1.jpg That is when Abu's cheek was starting to swell for the third time. It wasn't big yet. http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo312/taner69/Untitled-1-1.jpg Abu is on your left and his brother Dante is on your right. See how much bigger Abu is than Dante. http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo312/taner69/8-1.jpg This is a recent pic of them Abu on your right now.

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#710465 - 01/09/09 10:58 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
I have told Tanya a hundred times that Abu is NOT fat. If anything, they were a little underweight when I first met them.

Tanya, this is NOT normal behavior. Since we already have a plan for the swelling, we do need to deal with this loss of balance thing. You should bring them by - maybe let Abu stay a while with me so I can see for myself.
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#710478 - 01/09/09 11:21 AM Re: balance [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
tan
Unregistered


Val, this just happened last night and it only happened that one time, i have been watching him all night just in case it happens again, so far so good. I'm starting to think it was just bc of their new food bowl that i got them. But if it does happen again ill bring him right over.

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#710481 - 01/09/09 11:22 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
tan
Unregistered


And i don't think he is fat, just fluffy. lol

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#710915 - 01/09/09 08:19 PM Re: balance [Re: ]
thefotokat Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1360
Loc: Ft. Pierce, FL
Tanya, you're in excellent hands w/Val. I saw your post elsewhere, but there was no mention of the facial swelling. I know I don't have to say this since Val's helping you, but one of my gliders recently went through similar swelling. I won't go through all the details, but the source of infection was the eye and it had to be removed. Here is a pic of her swelling (her left side):



Like Jen said, the infection can spread and cause a balance issue. Do let us know what the vet says. And, no, he's not fat. lol
_________________________
Kate
SouthEast Sugar Gliders
SESG Rescue and Sanctuary
SECARES
Go To The Vet!!!

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#711190 - 01/10/09 01:41 AM Re: balance [Re: thefotokat]
tan
Unregistered


[quote=thefotokat]Tanya, you're in excellent hands w/Val. I saw your post elsewhere, but there was no mention of the facial swelling. I know I don't have to say this since Val's helping you, but one of my gliders recently went through similar swelling. I won't go through all the details, but the source of infection was the eye and it had to be removed. Here is a pic of her swelling (her left side):

OMG i'm so sorry your poor baby lost her eye. I didn't mention the facial swelling elsewhere bc i didn't think that they were connected until suz answered my post here. I am very lucky to have found Val wouldn't know what to do without her. byw how is your baby, is she doing okay without her eye?

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#711424 - 01/10/09 11:51 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
thefotokat Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1360
Loc: Ft. Pierce, FL
Doodlebug is wonderful. She went through a lot, but she's come out healthy. Thanks. I can't say enough good about Val. She's a fantastic lady.
_________________________
Kate
SouthEast Sugar Gliders
SESG Rescue and Sanctuary
SECARES
Go To The Vet!!!

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#711458 - 01/10/09 12:20 PM Re: balance [Re: thefotokat]
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered


Yeah, unfortunately if the infection has gotten into his ear it could definately have caused the fall. I would put his pouch and food dishes closer to the bottom of the cage just in case. That way there is less of a chance of a long fall that could hurt him. Hope your baby gets better fast!

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#711482 - 01/10/09 12:50 PM Re: balance [Re: Xfilefan]
tan
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Xfilefan
After several recurrences with facial infections, and having it finally spread into his sinus and the bones of his skull, My Riker ultimately (after 6 or so go rounds/recurrences over a year) went on a cocktail of 2 antibiotics for 2 months, then 3 for 12 weeks to finally clear it, as the recurrences, and too short a duration of meds, had made it resistant. Just something to consider-if your guy were mine at this point, I would have the vet redrain the cheek and send the contents for culture (provided he's been off meds for at least 3-5 days prior to sample collection or it skews the results), and start a 4-6 week course of 1-either Baytril or Clindamycin (both good broad spectrum) AND 2. Flagyl-this is because facial abscesses frequently contain anaerobic bacteria (those that grow without air), and most antibiotics don't work well on those, but Flagyl (aka metronidazole) does. The second antibiotic covers anything else, including what MAY get in an open wound, which is a concern with a lanced wound.

Riker's final cocktail was Clindamycin, Clavamox, and Flagyl, twice a day for 12 weeks, but he'd been on round after round and all else had failed. After 4 failed rounds of too short duration the Baytril wouldn't work at all any more. Also, he had nothing we could culture-although swollen, the infection was diffused through the tissue with no pocket to drain, and into bone finally (showed up on Xray, but not until about 6 months in)-we tried a combo to cover the widest possible spectrum. I don't recommend going that far until everything short of it has failed though-through him we learned a lot about recurrent infections in gliders, though-he was 2 when this began-3 when it finally ended...and is now 6 and thankfully it has never come back.

I'd love an update after the vet on your guy, and wish him lots of luck, and healing.
What was actually wrong with your glider? I mean what did they finally figure out what caused the swelling to begin with.?

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#711491 - 01/10/09 12:59 PM Re: balance [Re: ]
Suggiescomin
Unregistered


Not fat at all... roflmao

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#711595 - 01/10/09 03:17 PM Re: balance [Re: ]
tan
Unregistered


just fluffy

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#712112 - 01/11/09 12:49 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Sorry-I was off work last night and have no internet access at home...

Riker had a diffused bacterial infection-likely from a scratch on his gums, or piece of food driven down next to a tooth, that spread into his sinus and head/facial bones. The first few times we didn't treat long enough and created a resistant infection. After that it was a real battle. He'd get recurrent swelling in his cheek, and his eye showed the white at one point from the pressure underneath. He also had crusties that would stick his eye shut, and when he woke that way he'd panic until I could soak it off, and bat at his face. His nose color would range to dark magenta-or dark red, which was from blood rushing to the area to try and fight the infection. Now if an infection recurs in one of mine in under two weeks with the same symptoms, it's an automatic med combo if we can't culture for 4 weeks. That usually does it and we don't have a 3rd occurrence.

I've been through recurrent infections with not only Riker (face), but Chronos (anal glands) and Binx (anal glands), and Lyah (face/teeth). Lyah and Chronos are no longer with me due to separate issues (Lyah died of Sudden onset pneumonia Dec. 11 2007, Chronos of Liver failure/blocked gall bladder a few months before that), but Binx (anal glands ultimately removed) turned 6 in September '08, and Riker turned 6 in Dec.

Riker has also been through severe HLP that left him with physical deformities, is a cloacal Self Mutilator (not SMing and out of collar), and is the first glider on Thyroid hormone replacement therapy with L-Thyroxine for the rest of his life. Suz' Mareki is the second on L-Thyroxine.


Edited by Xfilefan (01/11/09 12:49 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#712963 - 01/11/09 11:59 PM Re: balance [Re: Xfilefan]
tan
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Xfilefan
Sorry-I was off work last night and have no internet access at home...

Riker had a diffused bacterial infection-likely from a scratch on his gums, or piece of food driven down next to a tooth, that spread into his sinus and head/facial bones. The first few times we didn't treat long enough and created a resistant infection. After that it was a real battle. He'd get recurrent swelling in his cheek, and his eye showed the white at one point from the pressure underneath. He also had crusties that would stick his eye shut, and when he woke that way he'd panic until I could soak it off, and bat at his face. His nose color would range to dark magenta-or dark red, which was from blood rushing to the area to try and fight the infection. Now if an infection recurs in one of mine in under two weeks with the same symptoms, it's an automatic med combo if we can't culture for 4 weeks. That usually does it and we don't have a 3rd occurrence.

I've been through recurrent infections with not only Riker (face), but Chronos (anal glands) and Binx (anal glands), and Lyah (face/teeth). Lyah and Chronos are no longer with me due to separate issues (Lyah died of Sudden onset pneumonia Dec. 11 2007, Chronos of Liver failure/blocked gall bladder a few months before that), but Binx (anal glands ultimately removed) turned 6 in September '08, and Riker turned 6 in Dec.

Riker has also been through severe HLP that left him with physical deformities, is a cloacal Self Mutilator (not SMing and out of collar), and is the first glider on Thyroid hormone replacement therapy with L-Thyroxine for the rest of his life. Suz' Mareki is the second on L-Thyroxine.
So sorry to hear about your gliders that passed over the rainbow upset I'm not sure what happened with Abu's cheek being swollen but yesterday the swelling moved from his cheek to his chin, so i took him to Val's and she said he will probably have to have major surgery and that it was probably due to genetics and more than likely he will have problems for the rest of his life. upset He will be going to the vet either on Wednesday or Saturday so we will let everyone know what happens after the vet visit. The only problem i have right now are vet funds of which i have none. The reason i don't have money put aside for them is because i got them unexpectly and barely new what a sugar glider was. I am gonna try to get help through TGI. Thanks everyone for listening (or rather reading) thanks

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#713698 - 01/12/09 08:12 PM Re: balance [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Facial abscesses or any abscesses are insidious. If ANY of the infection is not cleaned out of them they can reoccure. I went through this with my little Carina Trey. In the course of 3 months she had 5 surgeries for a reoccuring facial abscess. We did culture the pus but it came back saying it was a sterile abscess so it was difficult to determine what exactly to give her for it to irradicate the insidious thing.
Since the abscess on your little guy has reoccured, I would recommend that you need to have the pus cultured. It will give you a better idea of what you are fighting and how to treat it. You may also want to have an x-ray done. It may give you a better idea of where the center of the abscess is located.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#714909 - 01/14/09 07:55 AM Re: balance [Re: glidrz5]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I doubt genetics have much to do with it-this will happen if they aren't treated right-and each time they recur it's more difficult. Hard to deal with yes-but not likely genetic.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#714932 - 01/14/09 08:29 AM Re: balance [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
I certainly did NOT say this facial swelling was likely genetic! I have gone through this very thing with my Cheddar, and I am well aware of what must be done to get to the root of the problem and to treat it properly. Unfortunately, Abu has many issues (possibly the result of being inbred) and may have a weakened immune system, but I was very clear with Tanya that the reason this continues to recur is because it has NOT been treated correctly. Tanya is limited financially and has refused all of my offers to take Abu to MY vet in Tulsa so far. I have explained to Tanya AT LENGTH that Abu will NOT get better without proper vet care. Abu HAS been to a local vet several times for this issue. This vet DID a culture at my insistence, but then I had to call repeatedly and threaten legal action for 11 DAYS to get the results back.
Since that time, Tanya has not gone to pick up the medication that the vet recommended after FINALLY reading the culture results.
*I* paid for Abu's last vet visit with this vet here in Amarillo. I cannot and will not pay for any more visits for Abu. He NEEDS to see a vet that knows what they are doing. Plain and simple. I get very frustrated with continually offering help only to be told that it is "not necessary" at the moment or that it can't be afforded financially, and then coming here to read how my words have been misconstrued. Fact is, if this glider were in MY care, he would have seen MY vet months ago.

I would LOVE to see him get the care he needs, but Tanya has to take the responsibility for caring for him as he needs it or give him to someone who CAN provide for him. The reality is, this glider is likely to have medical issues for the remainder of his life. I hate seeing him in this situation over and over and KNOWING it is because he has never received the proper treatment. I hate thinking that he might someday have another issue that may or may not be treated appropriately and immediately. Now we all know why it is that I drive 6 hours for a vet - the ones here are completely UNABLE to provide adequate care for sick or injured gliders.


Edited by Jackie_Chans_Mom (01/14/09 08:32 AM)
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#715642 - 01/15/09 02:03 AM Re: balance [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
tan
Unregistered


I did not REFUSE to let you take Abu to your vet in Tulsa countless times. I don't understand how you came on here and say all of that stuff about me. Not even half of it is true. AND YOU WILL GET YOUR MONEY FOR THAT FIRST vet VISIT WHICH YOU OFFERED TO PAY FOR I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO. I also remember you said that it could be genetics if that is what you mean by misconstrue your words then i guess i didn't understand what you said. and what medicine are you saying that i refused to pick up? I have medicine that i got from you that he is still taking. I just can't believe you think that way about me. You pretty much told everyone that i am a bad suggie mom to my babies and that is not even true. You have no idea of even how I got Abu and Dante do you? As soon as you get back with my babies i will be taking them home with me. And I also never once asked you to pay for this vet visit that you are on now. I'm really hurt that you feel this way about me. I try my best to take care of these babies. Maybe you can afford all of these vet visits but i work at Sonic. I would have gotten a loan today to take care of Abu if i hadn't found that money. I even asked my boss for the money.

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#716064 - 01/15/09 02:48 PM Re: update balance [Re: ]
tan
Unregistered


Update Well Abu saw the vet today in Tulsa and he is not doing good. The vet said that he has soft tissue infections in his face at least three of them. The vet removed them as best he could but they had to put a drain under his eye, which has to be drained twice a day at the vet for at least a week, which will cost 100 dollars a day. I can't afford that I wish i could so Val talked to a nice lady in Oklahoma that said she would take care of him but he has to stay with her forever cry, so i am doing what is in his best interest and letting him stay cry I will miss him very much. cry


Edited by tan (01/15/09 03:31 PM)

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#716127 - 01/15/09 04:20 PM Re: update balance [Re: ]
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered


I am sorry you had to give up your baby Tanya... but you had to do what you felt was best for him. THAT is being a good suggie Mommy!

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#716225 - 01/15/09 06:43 PM Re: update balance [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
I am so glad you got Abu the help he needs! I know its hard to give up your babies. The best suggie mommies do what's right for their babies, even when it's hard for momma. I'm proud of you!
Do you know how long Abu and Dante will be seperated?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#716553 - 01/16/09 12:46 AM Re: update balance [Re: USMom]
tan
Unregistered


Dante and Abu will be separated forever, I will be looking for Dante a cage mate but right now he is on antibiotics for a parasite and he will also have to be neutered first. I really miss Abu cry, but i had to do what was good for him. He will have to see the vet for the rest of his life, every 6 months just for x-rays alone. What he has is rare in a glider they have never even seen this in a glider before. If i had the money to take care of him i would never have given him up.

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#716564 - 01/16/09 01:03 AM Re: update balance [Re: ]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
hug2 I'm sorry, I know that this is difficult, however, your willingness to let him go to someone who can provide the medical care that your unable to at this time, shows remarkable strength and love.

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