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#712382 - 01/11/09 01:26 PM Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
See Part 3 here

Copied from Part 3
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
Jen, I think your post reiterated what we have said from the beginning, that at any time, these gliders get out of their comfort zone and feel unsure that they can and will use their natural defenses.

The TRUST BUILDING techniques you all are using requires that constant awareness of theirs as well as your own anxieties. we all are told regularly, that they feel what we feel, they feel when we are stressed and unsure, and they will react to that. just as you all are learning that what they feel you also are reacting to.

those that have been really nailed by their glider in the past has worked hard to overcome that apprehension. and sometimes it creeps back in especially after a night you had jen. this is just a reminder to sit back and be sure you set that apprehension aside and really understand that getting them back to their comfort zone is important.

also for those reading this especially new owners. this technique is far from a quick fix, there is no quick fix, however, what we have done is removed reason for them to feel fearful, so that they can begin the trust building process. We show them that they have other alternative ways of showing their distress, we do it all in a positive and fun way for the owners as well as the gliders. Everyone here has done that by learning their glider, learning their body language. and this is an ongoing process. by you learning their body language, and listening to it, you are in the first stages of actually communicating with your glider, each new body language you learn is another sign in their language. and it is communicating, learning each other is the best gift you can give each other, soon those signs will become your foundation.

the first thing they are doing is getting their glider into a comfort zone for the glider, then they work on trust issues, there is talk of bonding with these gliders, but it is not from those that are doing the work. the people on this thread knows that trust building is a stepping stone , the bonding starts with consistency and never ends. also there are different types of bonds between gliders and their owners.

example, Robins gliders bella is bonded to robin, she is sweet docile and loves to be held, petted and she sees robin as her other half, whereas Donna may end up being a playtime glider who doesn't want that intimacy, that cuddling that touch of being held, but that doesn't mean that donna is not bonding with robin in her own way. She may have already started bonding with robin, it isn't for me to say, bonding is a connection between 2 people or objects, so since they have already started to communicate between each other, they have already started bonding. how deep and intimate that bond gets, is on an individual basis. that is up to them to decide how to define their bond.

the same goes for each and every one of you and your gliders, it isn't up to anyone to decide what bond is right for you or your glider,

you all have already learned so much about each other (your gliders and your gliders about you) you all are learning to coexist in a comfort zone that is beneficial to YOUR relationships.

what you all have learned is already proving to carry forward to each and every glider in your home, now and in the future.

the bond I had with Baybe didn't just happen it was something that grew each and every day I spent with her. but also keep in mind, I also had a bond with smokey, it was a different type, he was my adhd neurotic one, we were bonded, but in a different way, he had a different personality, different character make-up, and different ways of showing me he loved me as well. but it didn't change the fact he was STILL a bonded glider.

bonded gliders still have issues, we as owners have our own issues, it is how we react to those issues that stand out and remind us, we are not perfect, not one of us.

bonded gliders CAN still bite, bonded gliders CAN still crab, bonded gliders can still be afraid of their environment, but aware owners will do everything in their power to be there for them to calm their fear, to reduce their feelings of need to show it in such an aggressive manner

prime example is when the gliders are out of THEIR comfort zone, those lunger's and biters that used to bit down hard and break the skin, are only placing their teeth on you without any pressure. That intense crabbing that used to fill their voices and eyes with terror is just a garble and very slight crabbing. look at how far you really have come, and be proud of it all.

be proud of the relationships you have built with your gliders, you all (your gliders and you) have worked very hard to get where you are. NO ONE knows your gliders better than you, YOU live with them, YOU know whether your glider is afraid of you or it's environment, which in the end means only YOU can define the kind of relationship you have with them, you have a lifetime to build and build on that bond.


Edited by LSardou (01/11/09 02:01 PM)
Edit Reason: added info

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#712390 - 01/11/09 01:46 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: LSardou]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Bourbon, I think you should copy & paste your last post from part 3-as you know, that information is really important for anyone that might happen upon this thread.


Originally Posted By: Bourbon
you know you can't be holding that glider LOL, you haven't waited long enough..


LOL roflmao roflmao roflmao
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#712391 - 01/11/09 01:47 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: LSardou]
JenShigles
Unregistered


Thank you Bourbon, beautiful post!

I did push Emma a bit hard the other day by trying to take her out of the pouch, she has been on edge since but is getting better every day. I haven't tried again as she was clear that it's not alright and have taken a step backwards. I have also discovered that they are much more comfortable in the real (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets but not in the make-shift one I had BUT I have to leave it open more than the makeshift in order to keep her from garbling at me (good word, more descriptive, she isn't crabbing but just saying, umm... go away please!).

They also did pick up on my energy the other night, I was having a hard night, was really tired and was trying to give them licky treats out of obligation as I had been gone ALL day... well, they picked up on this, Pae grabbed my finger, it hurt and they both picked up on my anxiety.

I have repaired the "damage" done and things are going well this morning. Emma is being a sweetie again but as Bourbon and I discussed briefly the other day, she will probably always be a playtime glider. She's happy so it's ok. smile

Pae has been making progress too... she's more readily coming to my hands to wanting to check things out. She is also standing up for herself to Emma. When Emma takes a mealie (sometimes from her mouth!!) she takes it back and makes Emma find her own! (I've watched this closely since day 1, they are never agressive just "hey, MINE!" which each other!)

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#712406 - 01/11/09 02:02 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Having a playtime glider isn't a bad thing! If Ranger ends up being one, I won't mind that at all. He is so FUN! Keep up the good work Jennifer!
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#712407 - 01/11/09 02:03 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: DeeDancer]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
Bourbon, I think you should copy & paste your last post from part 3-as you know, that information is really important for anyone that might happen upon this thread.


Originally Posted By: Bourbon
you know you can't be holding that glider LOL, you haven't waited long enough..


LOL roflmao roflmao roflmao


I added it for you. thumb

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#712417 - 01/11/09 02:13 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: LSardou]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Ooh thank you!
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#712568 - 01/11/09 05:25 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: DeeDancer]
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered


I don't know if it was the approaching fullmoon or what, but Miss Donna decided that when I opened that cage door last night it was time to PLAY! I seriously need to get a suggie gym for the top of the cage. Those girls had a big taime last night just climbing the cage, checking out the stuff on top, Bella even found the old cricket bin and was trying fiercely to try to get inside to find her some crickets! Donna was a lot less skittish last night than she usually is during playtime... maybe because they were still right there with the cage and the freedom to go in and out at their leisure? Not sure, all I know is that playtime will now be centered around the cage if that is how well things go! I was so tickled. She wasn't scared at all, and I didn't have to try and catch her, she just went right back in when she had played enough. I'll try to get some pics tonight...

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#712608 - 01/11/09 05:57 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
That's AWESOME Robin!

Ranger was hanging out on the side of the cage, so I offered him the back of my hand to see if he wanted to come out. He grabbed my finger and started licking the back of it. I thought he was looking for treats or something, but he licked the entire back of my hand, and when he got a spot he thought was particularly "dirty" he used his teeth (ow, but cute). I let him lick until my arm got tired lol, he wasn't thrilled that my hand was leaving, he grabbed it with both hands (do gliders have hands? lol) and pulled, but my arm was TIRED so took it out anyway lol. Anyway, I think I got groomed! Lol. It was SO CUTE!
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#712679 - 01/11/09 06:57 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: DeeDancer]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
that is soooo awesome Deanna, !!!!!
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#712714 - 01/11/09 07:22 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Bourbon]
JenShigles
Unregistered


OH MY GOODNESS!! OH MY GOODNESS!! OH MY GOODNESS!!

I opened the cage and scooped Pae out. Yes, scooped her out. She was out in my hand against my chest before she realized what happened. I took her and walked around the house a bit talking to her while she just sat there and looked around. I went and grabbed a bonding pouch from the back room (didn't have it ready because I didn't think she would be so comfortable! HA!).

Anyways, I grabbed it and held it out for her to get into it if she wanted to... she didn't for a while. But then crawled in. I have decided that I am not going to zip it but work with her... if she decides that she wants to come out (like she did a minute ago), I am getting up and letting her walk on my arms and hands and shoulders. Then giving the bonding pouch as an option to go back into. (which she did) But leaving it open for her to come out of if she wants to. laugh

But she isn't scared at all... she didn't shake at all like she normally does, she has the pouch to hide out in when she feels a bit nervous and I'm listening to her. She isn't nipping my fingers when they are wrapped around her... she is just letting me pet her. She doesn't know what to do with herself! It's really REALLY cute!!!

This is working really well!!! OH! the best part! Emma woke up and started grooming herself but didn't get worried because Pae was gone like she normally does! I am working with them separately!!! YAY!

Hehe.. Pae keeps coming up, looking around, then ducking back in when I reach to pet her. She honestly doesn't seem scared at all! She seems curious and a bit apprehensive.... but not scared!

I know I jumped ahead Bourbon, but I really felt like Pae was ready for another step, so I took it and she is leading me nicely here. laugh We didn't take another step (just taking her out of the cage), we took a LEAP! (walking around and having her in the pouch on my lap) And I'm trusting myself to be able to control her and get her back to the cage when needed... I'm leaving the pouch open because I am not afraid she is just going to run out and get loose.

I'm very excited...

Sorry about the ridiculously long post!

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#712729 - 01/11/09 07:38 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
GREAT JEN !!!!!!!!That is what it is all about, you follow HER lead, she will take you to a heavenly place!!!!

her coming in and out is a good thing, that is showing her that she has control. it is also reinforcing the trust between you both, you are trusting her, and she is trusting you!!

okay here it comes....

so how does it feel???
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#712759 - 01/11/09 08:01 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Bourbon]
JenShigles
Unregistered


Bourbon, It feels AWESOME!!! I never NEVER thought I would be able to scoop her up like that - not because of her but Emma!

To clarify a few points... Pae was never pouch protective, she just had a few trust building things to work on. She was at a point where she would happily come to my hand from inside the cage when she was awake, not "bonded" as some call it but that will come in time. smile But definitely trusts my hands and enjoys coming out of the cage for a ride for a minute or two. So that is why I took this step with her. smile


Question for you all... what do you do when they are enjoying your fingers around them so much that they get nibbled and groomed?... OUCH!

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#712767 - 01/11/09 08:10 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Lol. I had my first experience with that today. It was only mildly painful lol. Ranger licked mostly and only used his teeth on spots he deemed worthy haha. Honestly though, I'm willing to put up with a little pain if it means he likes having me around. Plus, that was NOTHING compared to his bites.
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#712791 - 01/11/09 08:32 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: DeeDancer]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
BTW Bourbon, I still owe you 2 subs.
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#712815 - 01/11/09 09:02 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: DeeDancer]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
LOL OKAY I will collect them, but you still have a week to earn one back..

jen the answer to your question you already have.. you have been doing it with the lickys.. let them lick a little , move your fingers a little and let them lick again, it won't take long for her to listen to you!!! Also watch that body language, they will let you know when they are ready to nip..

what did I tell you, it will feel awesome, but you must stay with the consistency of it all.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#712883 - 01/11/09 10:21 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Bourbon]
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered


Jen... watch her EYES! I swear I can see in Donna's eyes when she is about to bite me. Yes... she ocassionally still bites. But not hard, and never a cobra strike like before, and ONLY if something scares her or if she feels restrained.

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#712900 - 01/11/09 10:42 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
she was in the bonding pouch robin.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#712903 - 01/11/09 10:45 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Bourbon]
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered


Oh... my bad. LOL

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#712910 - 01/11/09 10:57 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
JenShigles
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: BelladonnasMom
Oh... my bad. LOL


Pah ha!

Yeah, it wasn't agressive... just need to learn to move my fingers, she's a lick, bite, lick, bite, kind of girl. It's ok, I'll work around it.

She was never scared, frightened, or nervous the whole time. THAT felt the best!!!

Bourbon, I already knew everything you told me before you called. Lol.

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#712936 - 01/11/09 11:34 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
figured you did... but it gave me another chance to tell you how awesome your doing
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#713603 - 01/12/09 06:19 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Bourbon]
JenShigles
Unregistered


Lol! I love it. smile

Girls are doing well this afternoon... same news as always. Pae let me scoop her out and Emma was awake to watch it happen and was fine with it. smile

She's being super cute - playing peek-a-boo to check out the surroundings.

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#713622 - 01/12/09 06:58 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Sassy and I had tent time last night for the first time. It went VERY well. She ran all over the tent, checking out the toys. She ran up the side and over so she could jump down on my head, down to my shoulder, part way down my arm where she decided to pee, then down to my hand and jumped for the toys. She seemed a little nervous at first (new experience) but quickly warmed up to the idea of "play time". NO crabbing, no biting and when it was time, I held her pouch for her and she went right into it to go back to her cage. Last night (middle of the night) she was even more "friendly" towards me than she has been so I consider it all a success! She also seemed more relaxed to day too.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#713627 - 01/12/09 07:05 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Dancing]
JenShigles
Unregistered


That is wonderful!!! laugh

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#713653 - 01/12/09 07:34 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Aww, that's good to hear about Sassy. sounds like she's come a long way smile

Scooped Nika out of the pouch today and put her in my jacket pocket with no crabbing. Actually, she didn't even move really. I put her in the pocket and she came up to the top and peeked out, I gave her a mealie then she crawled in and went to sleep. Went to Target with her in there and she didn't make a sound. When we got back she climbed halfway out of the pocket onto my hand. She insisted on keeping at least one of her back feet attached firmly inside the pocket, so I let her, but she rested on my hand for a good 15 or so minutes, just looking around. Then she started crawling all over me. She seemed a little nervous but just crawled under my jacket if she got startled. Pics smile


Attachments
Nikaaa 017ed.jpg

Nikaaa 020ed.jpg

Nikaaa 026ed.jpg


_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#713807 - 01/12/09 09:33 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: DeeDancer]
JenShigles
Unregistered


Uh oh Girls!

Bourbon won't know what to do with herself now that we're make such great progress!!! wink teehee.

I am able to get Pae out so easily... it's so cute. Sometimes she holds onto the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and sends me the clear "not right now" message. I have been honoring it, no need to push her as I've been pushing her enough! Oh! I cleaned the cage and guess what!?!?! NO CRABBING!!! Usually Emma would go CRAZY when I pulled out the drop tray... I told my hubby to listen... he was confused... I said, "I'm cleaning the cage..." then "oh my gosh! It's silent!!!!" laugh That's right!

I love having Pae in the pouch like this... I can actually interact with her and trust that she won't bound out of the pouch... it's truly a bonding pouch now. laugh

Bourbon - I'm following her lead and she's "leading me to a heavenly place". wink


Edited by JenShigles (01/12/09 09:41 PM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#713810 - 01/12/09 09:39 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
clap Jennifer!
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#713871 - 01/12/09 10:29 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: DeeDancer]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA

all of you all are doing so good, yes I guess i'll sit here and put my feet up awhile,

Jen I will know what to do, I will call you all with things you already know, thinking about those 2 subs I will be eating this weekend..

Dee, no onions please and plenty of hot peppers.


T Sassy is doing so great i am really proud of her, and of you too of course, but it is her doing all the work..
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#713878 - 01/12/09 10:40 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Bourbon]
JenShigles
Unregistered


I have to share!

Check out my gorgeous girls. laugh

Here's Emma and Pae being defiant and snuggling in the corner of the cage... They soon got licky treats after this, don't worry.


Emma - "Hey mom!"


And Pae-girl...


Edited by JenShigles (01/12/09 10:47 PM)
Edit Reason: Make links clickable! :D

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#713879 - 01/12/09 10:41 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Bourbon]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Sassy during tent time last night. I wish I could get some pics of her interacting with me but just can't seem to manage to work with the camera and her at the same time. Maybe I can get Joe to crawl in the tent with me next time. Let him work the camera.


Attachments
Sassy tent time 01110901.JPG

Description: Sassy during tent time

Sassy tent time 01110903.JPG

Sassy 01020903.JPG

Description: Sassy getting neck rubs on Jan 2nd. She came home on the 1st!


_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#713903 - 01/12/09 10:56 PM Re: Part 4: Bonding with a Pouch Protective Glider [Re: Dancing]
JenShigles
Unregistered


Yay!!! clap

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