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#71924 - 12/08/05 08:42 PM Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Honey had a joey drop IP on the 29th of September (my 20th b-day) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Today is December 8th and day #70 for her joey IP. 14 days before her current joey went OOP, she had different joey come OOP. So, she was nursing a 2 week OOP joey when her second joey went IP and she ended up nursing 2 joeys for about 7 weeks, until Isabella went to her new home. I'm starting to wonder if while nursing both joeys, Honey some how put her newly IP joey on pause for a while. From what I can tell, her current joey won't be OOP for at least another couple weeks, making it extremely late. While she was nursing both joeys, I did happen to notice that her IP joey stopped growing for about 3 weeks or so, when it was about 3 weeks along. It never disappeared or anything, it just didn't seem to grow for a while. I've heard talk of Embryonic Dispause in gliders, but never put a whole lot of thought towards it... Now, I'm starting to wonder if gliders and dispause their in pouch embryos. Since today is day 70 for her IP joey, I thought I would post about this and see what everybody else thinks...

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#71925 - 12/08/05 08:50 PM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i have read that they can but imnot sure if this is the case ornot.... sure sounds like it

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#71926 - 12/08/05 09:46 PM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How can they "put them on hold"? I am so confused!

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#71927 - 12/08/05 10:04 PM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Like you, Leyna, I have known that gliders can have dispause within the uterus, but have not heard of it in pouch... Not sure on this one, but it sure sounds like that's what happened in Honey's case. Hopefully someone more knowledgable about it will come along...
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Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#71928 - 12/08/05 10:15 PM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Harleysmama, marsupials have the ability to dispause embryos. This means that they some how prevent the joeys from aging as they normally would so that they can have a baby when it's more suitable for them. Most of the referances to dispause I have heard about have been in utero though. But, because of how sugar gliders lactate, I think they are also able to dispause joeys IP. Sugar gliders milk changes nutritional content as the joeys age. I'm beginning to wonder if they can alter the content of their milk in a way that dispauses the joey in pouch.

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#71929 - 12/08/05 10:53 PM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


my guess is that she aborted the first joey and shortly after had another one drop ip. This has happened to many people. Monster thought that babies were supposed to be oop and 3 weeks latter they came oop

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#71930 - 12/08/05 11:25 PM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm certainly no expert, but I would have to say I think it's definitely possible. The same thing seemed to happen with Lil'Bit - Venus and Vega's little brother. Shortly after the girls came OOP at the end of July, it looked like Aeryn had a new joey drop IP. However after a few weeks, the new joey seemed to stop growing. Aeryn's belly just wasn't getting any bigger for weeks on end. Eventually though, her belly started growing again and Lil'Bit came OOP on Nov. 10th - over 3 months later.

I really had no idea what had happened. The possibility of dispause hadn't occured to me - but now that you mention it, that really would explain it!! The only thoughts I could come up with at the time were either that I'd miscalculated dates (even though I knew I hadn't <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) or that Aeryn had pulled and cannabalized the joey and then later a new joey went IP. Although this explanation didn't make much sense either because the lump had never disappeared. It's not like she lost the lump, got skinny, and then got a new lump. The lump was always there during those weeks of her size not changing. So dispause really makes a lot of sense!

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#71931 - 12/09/05 02:04 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How can they dispause a living breathing thing? An embryo is one thing but a joey that has been born already?? Just doesn't seem possible. The lump could of been left over milk... or she just stayed plump because she knew another joey was on the way so why bother trying to get back to her girly figure! lol

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#71932 - 12/09/05 02:13 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: RSXTC]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I tend to think that perhaps the joey you saw drop ip was pulled and a second joey was born later and replaced the first. This seems to be what happened with Monster's joeys. She KNEW she saw lumps but they seemed to take forever to come oop. After giving it some thought, she realized that about a month after the first joeys went ip, mom and dad mated again. So, she actually "lost" the first joey/s and had to wait for the second set to come oop.
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#71933 - 12/09/05 06:25 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am absultly possitive that the joey Honey has IP now is the same joey that dropped in pouch on the 29th. After 2 weeks of nursing Isabella, Honey's pouch was distended and I could actually see the joey, that's how I knew it was in there right away. The joey doubled in size the first day and it never shrank or disappeared. By 1 week IP, Honey had a noticable lump (she tends to show early). The joey continued to grow until Isabella was about 5 weeks OOP/the joey was about 3 weeks along IP. Then, it just stopped growning. I was really worried about it because I've heard that joeys can die IP, but you would think Honey would abort it if it had... It didn't grow at all for about 3 weeks.

About gliders not being able to dispause an in pouch joey, I have a few thoughts on that as well. In the books I've read, a IP joey is still considered an embryo. Also, gliders have to ability to change their milk to suit the joey they have IP. I'm wondering if they can alter their milk enough so that it can support a joey without causing it to grow, causing it to be in a type of in pouch suspencion.

I guess you guys can think what you want of the situation, but I know what I saw... Maybe people have been to quick to asume that gliders abort their joeys when they don't come OOP when expected though. Or these little marsupials of ours have more tricks up their sleeves than we realized.

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#71934 - 12/09/05 08:50 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Sugar gliders milk changes nutritional content as the joeys age.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"green"]Leyna, I really have difficulty believing this to be true. Sugar gliders will often still be nursing o.o.p. joeys & have newborn joeys in pouch. So they are nursing two different aged joeys at a time. If their milk supply altered for the age of the joey, then either one aged joey or the other wouldn't be getting the proper nutritional supply from the mother's milk...

I'm not trying to be controversial, just "thinking out loud"...
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#71935 - 12/09/05 08:59 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I actually read that in a text about marsupials. Apparently, marsupials (not just gliders) are able to produce different types of milk appropriate for the stage of development that a joeys at. And, they are able to produce more than one type of milk at a time. Have you ever noticed that there are 2 different types of wombaroo? It is intended to duplicate the different nutritional content in marsupial milk at different stages of development.

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#71936 - 12/09/05 09:07 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Can this post please be closed and deleted? Honey lost her joey this morning <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I should have never posted this, I jinxed Honey, her joey, and myself.

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#71937 - 12/09/05 09:08 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Aw Leyna, I'm so very sorry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />... It's not because of anything you did... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#71938 - 12/09/05 09:25 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Every time I post about my gliders, something bad happens. I mean, I sound like I'm being dramatic, but it's true and it's starting to drive me nuts...

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#71939 - 12/09/05 11:51 AM Please close [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Can this post please be closed & deleted?

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#71940 - 12/09/05 11:55 AM Re: Day 70 IP... Still no joey, IP dispause? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


ah I'm sorry hun <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> I'll close it

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