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#71969 - 12/08/05 11:13 PM i need some help
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ive had my glider for about 3 months and today i noticed she is kinda of limping around. Like her toes are stiff or something.Yester day she was moving around and jumping perfectly fine.Could she have just fallen and landed wierdly in her cage at some point in the night or some time today,,just wondering if it could be something worse,,i dont have a ton of money right now for hefty vet bills with xmas a few weeks away,,but also want to know she is ok,,my dog had a broken foot before and the vet couldnt do much for the $300 vet bill that i faced for basically an xray to confirm and pain killers,,so i think if it may be the same with the glider theres not much they could do for her if it is just a hurt leg i can tell myself its hurt with more money in my pocket and she doesnt really show any signs of it hurting other then the stiffness limp she has,,,just wondering if any one has any ideas what it could be if more then a hurt leg.

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#71970 - 12/08/05 11:51 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What diet do you have her on? Because the first thing that comes to mind is HLP (hind leg paralysis) from calcium deficiency - a common (and serious) problem with gliders on improper diets.

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#71971 - 12/09/05 12:24 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How old is your glider?

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#71972 - 12/09/05 12:41 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
HLP is the first thing that comes to my mind too. While untreated, this can be fatal, it is easily treated with oral calcium from the vet. I do suggest a vet visit.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#71973 - 12/09/05 08:40 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Shes only about 4 months old, she eats 50/50 fruits and veggies, she gets 4 mealworms a day, and gets 2 tbl spoons of Ensure (with one 250mg calcium tablet crushed up and mixed in). I talked to the breeder and she says that angel is too young to be having the calicum defficancy problem, but you never know right. I'm going ot try to get her into the vet today hopefully.

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#71974 - 12/09/05 08:44 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]For one thing, I believe your glider should be getting a lot more protein than she is... Please check out the diet link at the top of the page & go through them until you find one that will work for you. 50/50 fruits & veggies doesn't give her the balanced diet she needs. 35-40% protein in their daily diet is really necessary (according to my vet).
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#71975 - 12/09/05 09:36 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


would this HLP trigger that quickly that its affects show just over one night

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#71976 - 12/09/05 12:48 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Calcium defeciency can be caused by diet but it also can be caused by bacterial infections or parasites. Sometimes when a glider has an illness, that illness will prevent them from absorbing the calcium that is in the diet. That is why it is so important to have vet wellness checks and to take your glider to the vet when there is an obvious change in their behavior like what you described. It could be that she has an infection and this is the only symptom that shows. I hope it is nothing. Please keep us posted on how she is doing.

And yes, HLP can seem to appear over night in some cases.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#71977 - 12/09/05 01:50 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
i'll just throw in my 2 cents since Gizzy and I just went through something similar...and Gizzy is on BML I should mention before I go any further...Gizzy was very lethargic, glazed eyes, even seizure-like activity....after three vet visits within 5 days (one to specialist in gliders in Orlando), many tests and physical exams, it was decided that Gizzy did not have a bacterial infection, but rather needed more calcium...even tho BML is a complete diet for gliders, according to the specialist (who works almost exclusively with exotics and treats gliders all the time) some gliders need even more calcium than that so their bones don't start snapping from calcium being sucked out of their bones in order to compensate for a lack of it in the body....so Gizzy is on oral calcium for the next month, and he looks MUCH better now....my point is, if the bone is broken, it could be because there's an underlying bigger problem CAUSING the breaking bones...aka a calcium problem due to either a bacterial infection or because he's simply not getting enough....I know I basically repeated what everyone already said, but I figured I post anyway since Gizzy and I just had this experience....
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#71978 - 12/09/05 01:57 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Please keep us posted on what the vet has to say! And let us know how things are going…
_________________________
* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#71979 - 12/09/05 04:53 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi just got back from the vet he said that she has HLP, due to the diet shes on. Man I feel so horrible, he said i should switch the diet to something else. does anyone know of a really good diet. He gave me one and it seems allright here it is.
-equal amounts apple, grapes or mango, carrot, sweet potato, hard-cooked egg yolk, zoo, formula insectivoreor exotic feline diet, plus one tbl spoon volume of insects.
-insects include mealworms, waxworms, moths.
-Dust the crickets/worms with calcium powder.
- 1 tbl spoon nectar
-1 tbl spoon ensure
both with a vitamin additive in it.
this is one that he gave me. What is everyones oppinions, whats is this BML diet i keep on hearing about is it easy. Or is there another better diet out there, thanks everyone
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#71980 - 12/09/05 05:36 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay a little update i actually got her to eat a mealworm and a cricket, also she ate 2 peas, a bit of ensure aswell as alot of the nectare, ( thank god shes eating again) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#71981 - 12/09/05 07:48 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Did the vet give your glider any calcium?

I would recommend to go to the Diet Link section and read all the different diets.

The one you had her on sounds like the Darcy diet plan which has been used with much success. What diet was she previously on?
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#71982 - 12/09/05 08:25 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have an extra bird cage that is a little shorter in height then the cage she is in now i was just wondering if it would be a good idea to put her in that so she isnt tempted to climb all over and maybe fall and causing more injury,,,,any ideas

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#71983 - 12/09/05 08:49 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


no me didnt give me any calcium

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#71984 - 12/09/05 08:58 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would definatly try to get some.If for at least just a couple weeks to get the calcium built back up in her.

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#71985 - 12/09/05 09:00 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


So do i just call the vet and ask for oral calcium, or does it have a proper name?

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#71986 - 12/09/05 09:03 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i would just call and ask him if he feels like she needs to be on some additional calcium to hel with her hlp.

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#71987 - 12/09/05 09:11 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Okay I will in the morning i think that they are open, thanks

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#71988 - 12/09/05 10:58 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Calcium Glubionate is the oral calcium normally given for an HLP glider.

Also, 3/8 Teaspoon of JURASSICAL (an Extremely fine calcium powder that will stay suspended in the Ensure instead of sinking to the bottom, like the repcal will--and is available at PETCO in the Reptile section) is the recommended addition per BOTTLE of Ensure-put it in the bottle, shake well, and feed mixture of Ensure and Calcium as directed. I just had two rescued with HLP (to the point one would fall in her drink dishes attempting to climb the side of the cage, and her back end would fall over when she tried to walk or run on a flat surface)-for the first 6 weeks I raised the amount of Repcal in the ensure to a slightly rounded HALF TEASPOON per bottle, and gave a TABLESPOON and a HALF per glider nightly. When they left here for their new home after 8 weeks, you couldn't tell they'd been falling over, and were moving almost normally, including running and climbing.

Also..DO NOT add vitamins to the Ensure..ONLY the calcium. The Ensure already has a ton of vitamins in it, and you don't want to overdose them by adding more, and don't sprinkle their food with it while using the Ensure, either-tho you can lightly dust the bugs. I'll put the link to Darcy's diet- the one formulated by a vet for a sick glider that uses Ensure as a staple-go by that. Until the HLP is gone, reduce the amounts of meats and corn/peas-which are high in Phosphorus-the main thing that will counteract the calcium in the diet. I offered 4 peas and 4 corn kernels per glider while the HLP was bad..about the first month. Once your little one is recovered, you can raise that back to normal-per the diet, and he should be fine. I've had 3 gliders with HLP-one almost died, and this has worked for them. Also don't give any other staple while on the ensure (like zookeeper's, bml, etc.), and you're welcome to call me if you need to (435-640-9438) anytime.

You also may want to go with mostly higher calcium fruits for awhile, too: papaya, canteloupe, honeydew, apple. These are what we mainly feed daily fruit-wise, and have not had a recurrence of HLP in the gliders that had it. We alternate the apples with grapes, banana, fruit babyfoods-like the gerber tropicals, guava, papaya, mango, avocado, or kiwi.

Here's the link to Darcy's diet: DARCY'S DIET

Hope this helps, and keep us updated on your little one's progress! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#71989 - 12/10/05 05:56 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
The BML diet stands for Bourbon's Modified Leadbeaters...it's a complete diet for gliders that I've used with Gizzy with great success...however, you have to stick to the recipe religiously, but it's really easy to make and one batch lasts a month for me....
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#71990 - 12/10/05 05:57 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, that while BML is the main staple in that diet, you also add fruits and veggies....I recommend the same thing that Jen said....high calcium fruits are what we've been feeding Gizzy, his current favorites are papaya, cantoloupe and honeydew, plus his oral calcium and we've seen major improvements!! Yay!!
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#71991 - 12/11/05 10:43 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks shes started eating again last night, and shes drinking all of her ensure. Shes still not really eating her bugs and she seems to be getting a bit better.

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#71992 - 12/12/05 10:02 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi everyone thanx so very much for all the replies and help. I thought everyone would like to know that my lil girl is climbing and crawling around as if nothing ever happened already. Just a lil limpy but can hardly ever notice and she is eating fine again.There is also a friend on hold for her,,,a sweet little het for white face female so she wont get lonely. Thanx again for all the help

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#71993 - 12/13/05 10:16 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
All I am going to say is Be careful... there are many vets that run on old information regarding HLP.

something really good to keep in mind.. I would be glad to speak to any vet regarding this..

HLP is NOT something that happens over night, it takes MONTHS for HLP symptoms to appear.

an injury.. yes good posibility.. however HLP is commonly detected in xrays and usually found with broken bones, which is why the symptoms don't show up for long periods of time.

however HLP symptom can be an injury, or a bacterial infection. the testing for a bacterial C&S takes 7 to 10 days to come back. This is what we are more commonly finding with the hlp type symptoms.

The problems that we are running into with the mis-diagnoses.. is that the extra calcium is only covering up the symptoms, with the bacterial infections, the nutrients are not going where they are supposed to. so it "seems" as if the glider is mal-nutritioned.. (calcium defienct)

please if you haven't done so have the bacterial c&S run,

the chances of a glider of only 4 months to have HLP is very improbable.

If it is a bacterial infection, Once the meds stop, (the extra calcium,) the true problem will still be there. or maybe the symptons won't be there and the bacteria will still be doing the damage, and eventually will kill your glider.

_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#71994 - 12/13/05 10:22 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Bourbon...tho normally I would agree..Riker went thru it at about the same age. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> As always..a vet check is Paramount to rule out other possibilitiies..but at the same time, it could be, esp. if the parents were calc. deficient, then joey on a bad diet, tool. If not for Riker, I'd agree completely. (Don't shoot me, please)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#71995 - 12/13/05 10:31 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Jen..

What I am reading is that She has had her glider for 3 months, and he is only 4 months OLD.. you do your math.. but I think she got a glider that was far too young from a not so reputable breeder if those figures are correct.. that would leave the assumption open that if not an injury.. then most definitly a good chance for an infection.. keeping in mind.. the dealer that you had been dealing with as well.

although yes it is possible, I would think highly improbable.

your Man Riker, is definily.. an exception to all the rules.. He is the Man.. he has built your constitution.. and stolen my heart..
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#71996 - 12/13/05 11:49 PM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Bourbon,
Just a quick update for you along the lines all of this since you were the only one to calm me down that night...we tested Gizzy for bacterial infections and it came back normal!!!! We also did the fecal float and smear and an x-ray, and everything was A-OK! We gave him some calcium for a few days and sure enough, he never showed another sign of a seizure! Yay! He's back to his insane, weirdo self lol...thanks for helping me maintain my sanity in a time of panic at 12am, I thought I was going to have a seizure right along with Gizzy from the stress of it all!!!!!!
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#71997 - 12/14/05 12:51 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi i got angel from a really good breeder up here in canada, and she was 2 months old when i got her, I went to another vet and i found out that is was the diet and that she was getting way to much phosphorus, so that was depleating her calcium level. The vet never said anything about a bacteria infection ? should i ask to get that done is it really expensive? I have zero money left after the last two vet appoinments. She seems to be done tons better on the proper diet, and is actually moving her hind legs now.

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#71998 - 12/14/05 01:07 AM Re: i need some help [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Also that was my partners mistake shes 4 months old but we've only had her for 2 months, we got her on Oct 14. and she just turned 2 months old when we got her

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