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#72054 - 12/09/05 01:42 PM What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW?
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
With all the debate about captive glider diets there seems to be nothing but disagreement over what we should feed our gliders. The one thing that seems to be a common thread is that the captive glider diet needs to be supplemented with vitamin/minerals and calcium.

We are seeing more and more gliders die from liver problems. Regularly we see posts about gliders with prolapsed penises or what most diagnose as urinary tract infection. I know that well intended people spent countless hours developing diets for captive gliders but I think we have a long way to go.

First, I think that the over supplementing of vitamins/minerals is the cause of most of the liver problems captive gliders have.

Second, the supplementing of calcium carbonate is the cause for most of the cases of prolapsed penises we see. Plus I feel the excess calcium carbonate is causing over calcification of the liver and kidneys. Calcium carbonate is nothing more than ground up oyster shell. My theory is that part of this calcium crystallizes inside the gliders system and becomes embedded in the liver and kidneys. Some gets through the urinary tract and becomes blocked in the penis and the tiny crystals also irritate the internal urine passage. When a glider has a prolapsed penis it is checked for a urinary tract infection and most times the tests show no infection. Why? Because there isn't one. There is irritation or impaction from these tiny crystallized calcium chards.

Years ago several gliders were getting HLP. This was due to insufficient calcium in the diet. But look at some of the diets that were being fed then. In order to correct this problem new diets for captive gliders were designed that included the vitamin and calcium supplements. Without even knowing what the daily requirements for a sugar glider is these diets were implemented. They probably slowed down the occurrences of HLP but in doing so I think the new supplemented diets have created other problems like liver and kidney failure. And as mentioned the problem with the urinary tracts of gliders that are often misdiagnosed and mistreated.

After discussing this with one of our vets I have come to the conclusion that a glider can live a healthy life without supplementing their diets with vitamins and calcium. And if we are going to give them calcium we should give the calcium citrate and not ground up oyster shell.

OK! Now you can shoot me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#72055 - 12/09/05 01:50 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with you 100% Charlie H. I have been feeding my gliders an ensure based diet for some time now with no vitamins added.

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#72056 - 12/09/05 01:55 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
http://www.healthcastle.com/calciumcarbonate-calciumcitrate.shtml

Charlie, I found this...calcium article, the oyster shell stuff has LEAD IN IT!!
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72057 - 12/09/05 01:58 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> Interesting to say the least, Charlie! Bold.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#72058 - 12/09/05 02:14 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


O.k. Charlie, PacMan lived to be 15. What did you feed him. That's all I need to know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

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#72059 - 12/09/05 02:43 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Now you can shoot me!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

*shoots Charlie with a plastic watergun*

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#72060 - 12/09/05 03:21 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
Charlie, 15 years ago..what did you feed your gliders? It seems all these diets have recently come out or just within the past few years...
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72062 - 12/09/05 05:22 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
wow...don't see 1 person bashing anything...
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72063 - 12/09/05 06:35 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Perhaps Tom is just warning. As owner of GC I'm sure he's well aware of what the birth of a diet bashing war looks like in its begining stages. I'm confident that if we stay objective, it won't escalate to that.

I think Charlie's points are valid, to be quite honest. Though I feed my glider BML, I have always wondered about the super-supplimentation of vits and calcium, and how the ratios and amounts in each diet were established (and I'm talking about all the designer diets out there that suppliment, not just one).

Thinking back to a debate I had with Bourbon online around the time I first joined GC, I remember her giving some valid reasons for using the vit/cal suppliments that she chose for her diet (namely the Zoomed Rep-Cal and Herptivite). Back then, however, as it relates to this thread, I was more interested in how the vitamin/calcium ratios were established (what were the studies that broke down the elements of a glider's nutritional needs, wild or otherwise), and what clinical study supported its efficiency.

There was a thread awhile back as well where we compared and broke down the Zoomed vits and Pricilla Price's vits and found them to differ slightly in amounts.

I don't think anyone is definitively sure what captive gliders need nutritionally, but we have a general idea, as has been proven with the recouperation of ill gliders and gliders with HLP sustained on diets like BML, for instance.

With regards to calcium, wild gliders obtain much of their calcium in Acacia gum (also a rich source of magnesium, and other minerals), a small percentage of which is actually calcium carbonate (mostly found in ash). Charlie's theories are certainly plausible.

I'm not one to cause diet wars anymore, but I am one for striving for betterment and perfection, as I'm sure most here are. If what Charlie is saying here (namely that we are suddenly experiencing health complications to a greater degree now with the gliders than before, due to over supplimentation) is true, then I wonder how willing the community is to take some action on this matter.

I don't even know what the next step would be.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

BTW - Charlie isn't the only one who has supported the idea of "no-suppliments" in the diets. Highly recognized personalities in many zoological spheres like Dr. Delaney-Johnson also have supported such principles.

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#72064 - 12/09/05 07:01 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have wondered the same things myself-if we eat a good diet we really don't need supplements so wouldn't the same go for other animals?
Just my opinion.

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#72065 - 12/09/05 07:15 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yeah, well that's the biggest obstacle for those creating captive diets for our little ones.

It's the principle of bioavailability. Bioavailability describes the degree/rate at which a substance is absorbed or made available to the physiological location where it is to be used, and it is dependent on factors such as the state that the substance is currently in when it is ingested (in the case of the gliders).

In other words, just because calcium exists in a vitamin suppliment, it does not mean that it is absorbed and made useful as efficiently as calcium in Acacia gum, for instance. Other substances that fall under this category of bioavailability include protein. Just because you have 8 grams of protein provided by a handful of beans and 8 grams of protein provided by a peice of meat, it doesn't mean that the same amount of protein will be absorbed from both protein sources during digestion, but that's a whole different topic I won't get into right now.

You need to look at it from a holistic ecological standpoint; the complication is that our gliders have evolved over millions of years to absorb nutirents from their environment in a specific manner, eating specific food stuffs, possessing a digestive system that is specialized to abosrb a specific array of nutrients existing in a specific form. Petaurus breviceps plays a specific and specialized role in it's ecosystem, and that role can't be ignored when you approach this delicate issue of nutritional sustenance in a captive setting. It's different for humans because we've pretty much evolved (over God knows how many years) to occupy every nutritional niche (forests, oceans/waters, deserts, mountains, polar regions) and we no longer have much of a specific ecological role in the ecosystem (as gliders do), but to care for the globe and its inhabitants as much as we can.

Anyway, as people of North America, where obtaining native flora and fauna is difficult, we have to make that sacrifice and find a happy medium where we are providing the gliders the right (by right, I also mean safe) amounts of USEABLE nutrients, while at the same time doing so using food items that are readily available to us, and right now for most of us feeding the common designer diets, the answer to that has been the addition of powdered/liquid vitamin and calcium suppliments to the food.

If we had the $$$ I'm sure we'd all be supplimenting our glider diets with all the Acacia, Banksia, and Eucalyptus botanicals (pollen, flowers, gum, exudates, etc) shipped right in from Oceana, but unfortunately such things are difficult and out of the question for most of us.

There is a bright side, though. Several members actually do grow, and harvest native flora and add them to their glider diets. One of thes emembers is Pockets. Big_Ern also does something similar. Flying_Elvis, is yet another.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#72066 - 12/09/05 08:48 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
This thread was not started with any intention of bashing diets but as a way of discussing solutions to possible diet related issues with gliders. Hopefully we haven't reached a point to where we can't have a civil discussion about ways to improve upon the way we care for our little ones. Simply disagreeing with someone's theory does not mean we are 'bashing'.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#72067 - 12/09/05 09:09 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
Agreed Charlie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mikey, I add Acacia Gum to my glider's fruit every single night. They also get Bee Pollen. I was adding their Vionate to their licky treat every night and then calcium (Rep Cal) also. This seems like way too much. They also eat their veggies and fruits and protein. I felt like something wasn't right. They were getting way to many vitamins. The fruit, veg, and chicken (egg, mealies etc.) also have vitamins and calcium. I went out and bought Ensure for them and am not giving the Vionate and calcium Rep Cal now. After reading labels and seeing for instance..25 percent calcium, 23 percent calcium..etc. ..I thought this was nuts! I mean just how MUCH calcium are they getting? Too much is just as bad as not enough.

The Acacia Gum doesn't list the Calcium percentage on the package I have..but if it's a source of calcium also..then good grief! I've made the decision that since my glider kids all eat their food I feed them and are not picky, that I am not going to supplement vitamins and calcium on top of what they are getting. Normally, humans don't supplement unless a factor such as illness, age, or change in dietary occurs. In my opinion, that's best.
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72068 - 12/09/05 09:55 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anmaw Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 659
Loc: Hernando, MS - USA
I am so glad this thread was started. It is really informative. I don't understand all of it, but I am learning from it. I have often wondered about the vitamins and calcium being added to their diet because those things are in the food we give them. I know a lot of M.D.'s say a human doesn't need supplements as long as they eat a well balanced diet, but how do you know for a glider. I remember reading a post not too long after I joined GC, someone posted that their glider was 10 or 12 years old and they had never fed it one of the approved diets or given it supplements - they just fed it protein, fruits and veggies. Can gliders digestive systems adjust and process different types of food just as other creatures have over the years? Did that question even make any sense?
_________________________
Becky
Guardian of Stryder,
my Grandson's Sugar Glider

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#72069 - 12/09/05 10:27 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16757
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
When I was feeding the Darcy diet I was very happy with it as it contained the vitamins and adding the calcium was easy and most of all my gliders would eat it! Sorry but I have a house full of gliders that do not like BML unless it freshly made. One night in the freezer and forget it.
I was one that became worried so I tried the DD, they ate it, I was happy. When I went to my vet to get Pepper and Spike neutered my vet asked me which diet I was feeding and I told him the Darcy diet and told him what it consisted of. He asked me to please look around and find a different diet, although Ensure is good if a glider is lacking in vitamins, he felt there were too many vitamins in there for most people little less a glider, so I went to Pet Pro for a while. Then I begin to talk with Pockets, who suggested the diet they feed in Australia, the High Protein Wombaroo diet. She has always stated to ask your vet about it first seeing as how she does feed the other things such as flowers and other things she gets from Aus.
I took the box of HPW into my vet, he kept it for a week to look into it, he told me it was the best thing next to fresh baked bread!! Told me all he would suggest is to add a tablespoon of Bee Pollen (which I use the bee pollen from australia thanks to Big Ern), for added calcium. My gliders do not care for the acacia gum unless it is injected into a branch and in their cage.
Since I have had them on this diet along with their fruits and veggies there has been a big difference in them.
I do not add any extra vitamins or calcium and they are doing fine.
I had concerns about HPL creeping in because of all the stories I have heard about the outbreak of it years ago and the lack of calcium, but I do agree. I do think we get overboard on how much one should have and they are such tiny creatures.
If only we could come up with the proper funding for the proper research to be done. Who knows, maybe one day it will happen.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#72070 - 12/09/05 10:29 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just fear that some may read this and suddenly decide to not include the calcium suppliment and herptivite suppliment in their next batch of BML, for instance. Doing so is just a disasterous, seeing as the entire diet is designed to have its vitamin/calcium components provided mainly by the supps.

If people seek to have a vit/cal suppliment-free diet, then they should choose one that has already proven to work. There are several suppliment-free diets out there, including one outlined by Caroline McPherson.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#72071 - 12/09/05 10:33 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


...OH, and the one outlined by Peggy, just now!!! Doesn't Pockets call it PML (diet with Womberoo)? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#72072 - 12/09/05 10:51 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
Mikey, people should know that the vitamins and calcium in the BML is what MAKES up a part of the BML. To take out the vitamins would not be good. My glider kids simply will not eat the BML once frozen. I tried for about 2 weeks total in all and nada. I've had them on ZooKeeper's since Feb. and they decided they didn't like it anymore either. I tried everything with both the BML and the ZooKeeper's. I don't give up easily. I "iced" both, plus tried other additives..no go. My kids love a lot of fruit, I get figs, mango, cantaloupe, kiwi and other exotic fruits as they come out. (yes, I know cantaloupe isn't exotic..LOL) They love green beans, carrots, peas and corn. I figured out they will eat bell peppers and tiny piece of tomatoe if I make them an egg omelot with a couple shreds of shredded cheese. (These are too cute..lol) Anyway, they get chicken, turkey and a whole host of other foods they love. I love to surprise them sometimes and also love to see their faces when they do get the favorites. Of course, the "mealie cicles" hehe takes the cake! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mine also eat cottage cheese and yogurt...again, more calcium! Geesh...I was overdoing it big time. The only things mine won't eat so far is strawberries (cept the applesauce), watermelon (nothing really nutritional anyway there) and raspberries.

BTW, Badger made a piggy outta himself tonight with the ensure (I put it in a nectar tube) (yes, they also get nectar) He had it all over his chin..it was sooo cute. I was waiting for him to burp! LOL

I think some people think they should feed the exact same thing to their gliders everynight. I thought that too till I got Badger and he'd only had trail mix, parrot food and raisins for the first 8 mos. of his life. I have pictures of him devouring his fruits, eggs..etc. after reading what they could have. He used to love the insectovore too. I realize animals in the wild only have so many choices. But the gliders have more choices in the wild even because they can and like different things...so I give a variety. That's just me..not saying for anyone else to do that. They are my glider kids and I'm learning as I go along like everyone else.
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72073 - 12/09/05 11:09 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16757
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Doesn't Pockets call it PML

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Yes Mikey, thats the one!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

For the longest time there was only one person who sold the HPW, but since Pockets spoke about it on GC there have been many members who have been using this diet. There are now vendors that buy the HPW from the only gentleman that is able to have it imported from Australia and is actually hard to find available. I do believe TMarie is the only one that has any for sale right now as the original carrier of it (Geoff) is out of stock and waiting for another supply to come in. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

I DO agree with you also on the necessity of adding the vitamins and the calcium in the diets that are listed that call for it. Removing them would be a very big mistake as all these diets were made according to the ratio that is needed. I do NOT recommend anyone discontinue use unless you have the knowledge of the foods and the vitamins and calcium that are in those foods.
Or unless you go over a specific diet with a very well educated exotic veternarian that is willing to look into your diet thouroughly before telling you if it is a good one or not.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#72075 - 12/10/05 06:10 AM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Well said Tom. And as Mikey and Peggy have pointed out it is not a good idea to delete supplements from your gliders diet without getting professional help with a replacement diet.

Over supplementing glider diets has long been a major concern of mine but I was hesitant to post about it for fear that some glider owners would over react. While I fully understand why the supplements were introduced into the captive glider diets I feel we have done an overkill.

Peggy, somewhere in the past I saw the formula for the HPS posted. With a little help from your vet why couldn't you mix up your on version? The ingedrients seemed rather simple and are items that can be purchased in the states.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#72076 - 12/10/05 08:01 AM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am finding this fascinating, but for now will stick to what we feed (ernies diet) but since I know Acacia has calcium (Its one of my sources of it in my own diet) I wonder at how much my gliders are getting between the diet which includes calcium and acacia and the acacia/bee pollen/nectar mix I put out in the branches for them to use as "sap" reminds me- I have some half filled branches on the counter to finish filling and put back in cages too!

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#72077 - 12/10/05 09:49 AM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
khyricat...PM sent! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72078 - 12/10/05 09:50 AM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Brother Ern better be going to the SGGA this year or I'm gunna be really upset! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tantrum.gif" alt="" />

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#72079 - 12/10/05 10:57 AM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16757
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Peggy, somewhere in the past I saw the formula for the HPS posted. With a little help from your vet why couldn't you mix up your on version?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Charlie, I currently do feed the PML these days. It is really simple to make and it is what they are feeding in Australia zoo's.

This is how I make mine...

2 cups water
1-1/2 cup honey
3 eggs
1 tablespoon of Bee Pollen
1/4 cup of High Protein Wombaroo
(I do change the 1/4 cup to a 1/2 cup when one of the females have joeys in pouch, recommended by my vet)

This is JUST for the staple, of course I also feed other things with this diet.

The High Protein Wombaroo I do believe will become more steadily available as more people start to use it. But once again, I would recommend doing the same thing I was told to do and that is to Consult with an Exotic vet. prior to switching diet plans.

KarenE, I could not agree with your post more.

Mikey....Get back on Topic!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#72080 - 12/10/05 11:27 AM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
KarenE, I could not agree with your post more.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Peggy, have I finally lost it?? I don't see a post by KarenE in this thread? (Could be me, tho <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />)

I do wonder, tho, if we haven't created a population of gliders, at this point, that have dietary needs far different from what their wild counterparts require...based on what each generation has been raised on in THIS country. How do we know that trying to imitate the wild diet won't actually result in illness or worse at this point.

Here's an idea...take the OLDEST gliders known, and what they have eaten over the course of their lives..including any health issues..and see what the "diets" they were on have in common.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#72081 - 12/10/05 11:30 AM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16757
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Peggy, have I finally lost it?? I don't see a post by KarenE in this thread? (Could be me, tho )


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No Jen...you havent lost it...I have....instead of looking at the name I just noticed the blue letters and not being used to Tom posting just assumed it was KarenE!! My mistake...sorry Tom <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#72083 - 12/10/05 01:06 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Awwww... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Don't cry; dry your eye...

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#72084 - 12/10/05 01:51 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
KarenE, I could not agree with your post more.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I do wonder, tho, if we haven't created a population of gliders, at this point, that have dietary needs far different from what their wild counterparts require...based on what each generation has been raised on in THIS country. How do we know that trying to imitate the wild diet won't actually result in illness or worse at this point.

Here's an idea...take the OLDEST gliders known, and what they have eaten over the course of their lives..including any health issues..and see what the "diets" they were on have in common.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] [/] On that note, our glider kids (captive) aren't out all night foraging for food and gliding that 150 or so feet from tree to tree. I would also think the wild glider's metablolism is far different considering they mate whoever, whenever they want. (lol) They live in colonies and are always on the lookout for "strangers" coming into their territory. (stress, uses more calories and burns vitamins etc. off)

I have 2 very lazy gliders that prolly wouldn't be had they been born in the wild. After all, they have everything handed to them without them working for it. IN MY OPINION ONLY, I give my glider kids Acacia gum, Bee pollen, nectars because they LOVE it and it does help for variety. I was really concerned about the vitamin/calcium because I DO NOT feed the BML cause they won't eat it. I finally realized I had to be overdoing the vitamins/calcium by adding it in powder form to the foods that already contained enough or more than enough. (IN MY OPINION) I also give the yogurt drops..more calcium and vitamins. *sigh* After seeing all the "extra" they were getting, I thought, good grief..this is enough to make a 130 pound human sick/and or overdose! My kids don't have to do anything cept play, eat, sleep and potty..lol (as I'm sure most only do) It's like people that are into excersizing big time, they need more nutrients...me? I sit on my [censored] a lot now that I'm not working..so I don't need the extras. (I need less!) LOL IN MY OPINION ONLY! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72085 - 12/10/05 01:59 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
I didn't say anything wrong...geesh! I just said but with 2 t's!
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#72086 - 12/10/05 02:55 PM Re: What Are We Doing To Gliders NOW? [Re: ]
KarenE Offline
Owner

Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 41379
Loc: LittleRock, AR USA
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I didn't say anything wrong...geesh! I just said but with 2 t's!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"]This time it really is me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

No you didn't say anything wrong, however, the censor is a sensitive thing in that just like spelling there are words that can be used in "G" rated ways and non-G rated ways so we have to include them on the list as non-G rated just to make sure our bases are covered.

No harm, no foul.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Glad to see I wasn't the only one looking for my post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> [/]
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