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#742262 - 02/27/09 01:46 PM Australian glider diet
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Gossamer
Marz,

Would you post a typical daily diet that you use? I'm just curious about what an australian diet is like (for your gliders of course, LOL)


I am hoping this answers the PMs I have received too as I about about to hit full quota on my PMs and don't have a chance to clean them out yet!

My glider diet is based on the Healesville diet but have expanded the vegetable proponent of it, make my own meatloaf instead of purchasing a commercial one and currently researching and developing the addition of native rainforest & bush plant food products into their diet. Sourcing the products was interesting enough and it adds a whole new dimension to the cost of their feeding. They enjoy what I have offered so far but this is in experimental stages only, so is going to take a lot more to develop before I can comment any further on it.

I also have ringtail possums and am out nightly gathering browse in the form of branches/leaves/blossoms of many native trees. The gliders love the variety of these too though they don't munch through them like the possums do.

My gliders LOVE insects of many types and they catch their own mostly.


There are a few products that are fed regularly in glider diets in the US that I have never fed my gliders..things like yoghurt, chicken baby food, apple sauce or juices, yoghurt drops, gliderade (or any other ade), ensure ,orange juice or any other fruit juices.

My gliders have never ever had cooked vegetables or fruit/veg smoothies or relishes. I often wonder if people take into the account with the latter the added honeys and sweeteners to make these relishes/smoothies more palatable. Honey, I believe is a great addition to the glider diet but in sensible moderation...it always comes back to moderation and variety.


Edited by sugarlope (02/27/09 05:30 PM)
Edit Reason: changed title

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#742306 - 02/27/09 04:19 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: Marz]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
Can you please spell out exactly what the Healesville diet is for those of us that missed it somewhere? and how do you make the "meatloaf" you mentioned?

I am also trying to add more "brush" to their diets and have located a list of native plants in Australia that I also have here and in spring will be adding them. I am also going to grow more edible flowers for them that are high in nectar (I figure the type that attracts hummingbirds should do) I am also trying to locate a source of acacia and eucalyptis. Is there anyone is Australia that could ship out stuff like that to the US or would that be a "no no"?

I know of one site to order euc leaves...has anyone ever thought of making a "tea" out of euc leaves for them? what are your thoughts on that one?


Edited by sugarlope (02/27/09 05:31 PM)
Edit Reason: changed title
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#742308 - 02/27/09 04:23 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
Kage Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 621
Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
I'm really curious on that healesville diet and that "meatloaf" you were talking about Marz.


Edited by sugarlope (02/27/09 05:32 PM)
Edit Reason: changed title
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#742311 - 02/27/09 04:30 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: Kage]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I found this site and wanted you all to read it. very interesting on how eucalyptis MAY effect sugar absorption
http://www.zhion.com/herb/Eucalyptus_Globulus.html
to be specific "Eucalyptus leaves contain eucalyptol (1,8-cineol), a volatile oil. With
70-85% eucalyptol, Eucalyptus oil is believed to have effective
expectorant and antiseptic activities. [3-6,21] One ingredient of
eucalyptus oil, p-methane-3,8-diol, was found to be effective in
repelling bites of the Anopheles mosquito. [8] On the other hand,
Japanese researchers found eucalyptus leaf extract inhibited the
intestinal fructose absorption in rats. This inhibition may suppress
adiposity when the subjects ingest large amounts of sucrose or
fructose. [19]"
Not suer what all that means....LOL


Edited by sugarlope (02/27/09 05:32 PM)
Edit Reason: changed title
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#742332 - 02/27/09 05:43 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
corie4u99
Unregistered


I did a search on the Healesville diet, and this is what I found.

Quote:
HEALESVILLE SANCTUARY
diet SHEET
SPECIES: SUGAR GLIDER: Petaurus breviceps
NATURAL diet: Insects, pollen, nectar, sap, lerps.
AD LIB: Water.
DAILY diet (per animal):
1 Dog chow/Advance.
6g Fruit, chopped (1tbspoon).
3 ml Nectar mix.*
1g Fly pupae ( tea spoon).
5g Corn ( thin slice).
2g Sprouted seed.*
2 Mealworms.

SUPPLEMENT: 5 Pollen grains once per week.
3 Sultanas 3-4 times per week.
2 Sunflower seeds once per week.
1g Pet Health Food (small cube) once per week.
1 Almonds - once per week.
Insects 3-4 times per week (eg. moths).
Acacia, eucalypts, other blossoms as available.


NECTAR MIX - To Make up:
Nectar Mix 2 Litres 4 Litres 6 Litres 8 Litres
Honey 700 ml 1.4 Litres 2.1 Litres 2.8 Litres
Hot Water 1.0 Litre 2.0 Litres 3.0 Litres 4.0 Litres
Eggs 3 6 9 12
Soluvet 20 g 40 g 60 g 80 g
Calcivet 20 ml 40 ml 60 ml 80 ml
Cold Water 250 ml 500 ml 750 ml 1.0 Litre
Cereal 70 g 140 g 210 g 280 g
Dissolve the honey in the hot water.
Blend together:
Eggs hard boiled shelled.
Soluvet
Calcivet
Cold water
Once blended, add mix to the honey and water, together with High
Protein Baby Cereal.
It is essential that the vitamin supplements are thoroughly mixed to ensure even
distribution throughout the mix.
This mix needs to be made fresh on a daily basis. Remaining contents of each day to
be discarded.
The mix can be made up last thing each afternoon and placed in the fridge.


Sprouted Seed Mix
Composition (as specified on diet Sheet)
40 % Fine seed mix
40 % Wheat
10% Sunflower seed
10% Mung Beans
Method
1) Place required amount of seed into container, and cover with water and Aviclens
(5ml Aviclens to 10L of water).
2) Soak for 24 hours.
3) Then place the empty soaked seed into seedling trays to a maximum depth of 2cm
and rinse thoroughly using shower spray.
4) Place onto heat pad in Autumn, Winter and Spring until sprouted (usually 24
hours to 48 hours ) additional rinses may be required if conditions are particularly
dry.
5) When sprouted remove from seed trays and place in refrigerator.
6) Thoroughly clean all equipment. Scrub with detergent, then rinse in sodium
hypochlorite at (3ml/L of water).
Plastic lids will need to be used only when conditions are Dry and or Cold to maintain
warmth and humidity . Use in warm humid weather will promote mould growth,
please use own judgement.
Hygiene
1) Conditions required to sprout seeds are also ideal conditions for the propagation of
a wide range of fungus and moulds, some of which are highly toxic.
2) For this reason it is vitally important that all equipment is kept clean, scrubbing of
all equipment needs to be carried out at completion of every cycle.
3) If any mould is detected (black spots, grey filaments, mouldy odour), discard the
whole batch and clean trays thoroughly with sodium hypochlorite (3ml per litre of
water).
The Heat Pad
1) Use of the heat pad will need to be adjusted according to the conditions.
2) In autumn, winter and spring only turn the heat pad on at night.
3) Leave the heat pad off in summer unless the temperature falls below 13oC.
4) The seed raising mix should not get warmer than 23-25oC, as he heat pad raises
the temperature on the mix approximately 10oC above the ambient temperature it
not required at ambient temperatures above 15oC or it will promote growth of
contaminants.
Healesville Sanctuary diets
August 2006 This document in under constant review and is modified continuously.
170
5) To assist with decision making a max/min thermometer should be kept at the seed
sprouting station.
6) Please refer to the adjacent sheet from the manufacturer for full instructions.


http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=18109&#128376

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#742347 - 02/27/09 07:28 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: ]
NGS
Unregistered


This is interesting. I was just thinking today about the HPW diet and My thoughts were why are we using so much honey with this recipe. Why are we not adding Eucalypt Sap and Acacia Gum and all the other things that we know for sure they eat?

Is there no way to get the Eucalypt Sap and Acacia Gum that they like here? (and is that why we are useing honey in our recipes now?)

I found this info on the web site here

In the wild, Sugar Gliders spend most of their time foraging for insects, Acacia gum (a fluid exuded by trees), and Eucalypt sap (a sugary liquid also exuded by trees). The break up of time spent foraging for each of these is shown in Figure 1. Sugar Gliders tend to eat certain kinds of insects in the wild, notably: moths; butterflies & moth larvae; small and medium beetles (particularly elaterid and chryosmid); and occasionally small spiders. They will also eat flowers and their nectars, usually of the genera: Banksia; Eugenia; Grevillea; Hakea; Xanthorrhea and Eucalyptus.

Thanks for any help with these ???

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#742351 - 02/27/09 07:35 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: ]
Krystalbabies
Unregistered


I just bought some acacia gum from Exotic Nutrition. Its called gumivore and has mealies in it but the babies didnt touch it when I offered last night.

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#742365 - 02/27/09 08:12 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: ]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I purchased an acacia gum POWDER from exotic nutrition and when mixed with water mine wouldnt touch it either. so now I mix it with bee pollen, water, and a TINY bit of NATURAL maple syrup and they gobble it up!!!!
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#742378 - 02/27/09 08:38 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
according to many sources...sugar gliders need COMPLEX carbohydrates, such as found in gums. I copied this from a stie:
Complex carbohydrates, often referred to as "starchy" foods, include:
Legumes
Starchy vegetables
Whole-grain breads and cereals
perhaps we need to incorporate more of these into the diets?

also tapioca is vegetable starch. Could this be used as well?

the cindy love diet uses PASTA! perhaps whole wheat pasta would be a good idea after all? perhaps she has something there?

please lets keep the brain storming going in this thread to get the BEST diet for our beloved little furry bra angels. It makes me cry to think I am not feeding her the way I should and I want THE BEST for her and I think a variety is a key since we cannot duplicate the natural. But we can sure do our best!
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#742470 - 02/27/09 11:21 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
The BML diet has wheat germ in it, which (without looking it up) I would assume is a good source of...ummm...wheat.

So far I like the HPW diet the best though. I think out of the approved diets (that are reasonably easy to create at home), it most closely mimics the diet in the wild...and it's the easiest to make (fewest ingredients). You'll find that everyone has an opinion about diet though. It's really just important that you do your research & select a diet that's best for you & your gliders.

I tried acacia gum too & my gliders don't eat it very well. I recently read in a post on here (sorry I don't have the link) that the dry acacia gum powder that we get is from an acacia species that's native to Africa, not Australia...so I wonder if that's partially why the gliders don't eat it. That & maybe the drying process changes up the composition a bit.

We recently got some eucalyptus leaves & sticks for our gliders & they love it. I don't think they're really eating it though. I think they just like playing with it & chewing on the sticks. I haven't heard before that euc inhibits sugar absorption. I'd love to hear more about it, but for now I tend to think that these little guys have plenty of access to eucalyptus in the wild & if it were a nutritional hazard for them, we'd be hearing more about it.

Misty

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#742522 - 02/28/09 03:19 AM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: IowaMisty]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
Hi Misty
No one said euc was a hazard...but thinking logically and keeping faith that God knew what he was doing...perhaps the euc BALANCES the amount of sugar? just a thought. that's what "brainstorming" is. people getting together and throwing their ideas and knowledge all together to make something better. successful business people and companies do it all the time.

that info on the euc, by the way, I COPIED (copy and paste) off of a site (glider university)

I WONDER how much NUTRITION they can actually get from the euc leaves we buy over the internet? even fruits as they sit loose value, so why not the leaves? when we get the branches and strip them there is no sap seeping out like on a FRESH branch.

I mentioned elsewhere of the possibility of makeing a TEA of the leaves and branches to extract more of the "nutrition".

keep the ideas coming Misty! and EVERYONE else!
I really think this thread need s to keep moving. with OVER 7000 members (that's alot of brains!)we have got to collectively come up with better than what we are doing! when I hear people say about US "why will they never learn?" I dont want to be included in that because I WANT TO LEARN!!!! I love my gliders enough to never settle and while BML IS GOOD I feel we need to make it BETTER.
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#742528 - 02/28/09 04:01 AM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
Hi Misty
I mentioned elsewhere of the possibility of makeing a TEA of the leaves and branches to extract more of the "nutrition".


Only one issue with this. Gliders rarely if ever, eat the euc leaves. They will glean them to get lerps and insects off them, they will chew the bark looking for sap,they will even lick the blossoms and they will pick the leaves and carry them off for nesting materials....but they do not generally eat the leaves. It's just not part of their diet and leaves can be quite toxic (depending on species,season and location of the leaf on the tree!), difficult to digest or taste just plain nasty to them.

Matt's euc products are good for enrichment (especially when it comes to nestbuilding and just play), great for keeping gums and teeth healthy but do not offer a lot in the way of nutrition for them. In the wild, they attack the main trunk of the tree for the sap.


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#742533 - 02/28/09 05:04 AM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: Marz]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
WOW! thanks for the important info! so NO TO THE TEA!
we "tap" maple trees for sap...why not euc trees? not much profit? new business venture for glider owner? tap, bottle, sell? bad for the trees? good for the glider?
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#742543 - 02/28/09 05:52 AM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
Their_mommy Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 11/07/06
Posts: 767
Loc: Canton Tx
Thanks everyone for the great info, I have been meaning to ask a question.
Are garden grubs good or bad to feed suggies?
I have 3 worm beds that don't get any insecticide at all.
I use manure for the worms to eat.
Unfortunatly I am raising red worms for fishing but the grubs enjoy the manure as well and I am wondering if they are good or bad to feed?
Also, what about the worms in the worm beds?
Can I feed those also?
I tried the euc stuff and they only tossed it all on the floor of the cage where it was peed on and pooped on.
So I did not order any more.
I use the HPW diet for all of mine plus fruits , veggies and some cereal, plus I just started giving them some pecans to see if they like them.
They are not packaged but fresh shelled and are full of oils.
It seems to have made their coats much shinier? Of maybe they are rubbing these oils over their coats to give them that special look?:)
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As time goes by and my loves pass. I will forever be greatfull for the time we had together. I will see you soon my loves.

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#742722 - 02/28/09 01:32 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: Their_mommy]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
great questions about the grubs and worms! I was going to ask about butterworms. grubs...the kind that live in lawns? I feed them to my duck! does anyone know if they would be safe for gliders? just a note: they DO bite! how about june bugs? or japanese beetles?
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#742734 - 02/28/09 02:07 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
Anmaw Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 659
Loc: Hernando, MS - USA

Grubs and earthworms - I wouldn't. Go to the top of the diet & Nutrition forum and click on "Critters your gliders shouldn't eat" or something like that. Mikey Bustos posted that a long time ago and there is some very useful info about worms and why they shouldn't be fed to gliders.
_________________________
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Guardian of Stryder,
my Grandson's Sugar Glider

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#742767 - 02/28/09 03:44 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: Anmaw]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Please keep this on topic, if you would like to start another post about safe/non-safe insects, you may do so. smile
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Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#742910 - 02/28/09 08:54 PM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: sugarlope]
jungleflockmom
Unregistered


There is considerable concern as to the voracity of info on Glider University.

There are two books available on Amazon.com or perhaps through a library with marsupial diet info:

Marsupial Nutrition by Ian D. Hume, Cambridge Univ Press,
Life of Marsupials by Hugh Tyndale-Biscoe, CSIRO Publishing

They are both interesting to read.

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#743054 - 03/01/09 04:03 AM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: sugarlope]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: sugarlope
Please keep this on topic, if you would like to start another post about safe/non-safe insects, you may do so. smile

ok sorry...i get sooo distracted and carried away sometimes...
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#743057 - 03/01/09 04:41 AM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: ]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I have the book by Tyndale-Boscoe
While I agree it is interesting...it is quite old (over 10 years) I am sure there must be some update to the info in it. Also contains VERY LITTLE info on sugar gliders specifically. ALMOST NO INFO on their dietary needs, and NONE on the needs of captive animals.
the book by Ian Hume I looked for on Amazon. quite pricey so will not be purchasing but it too is old (10 years) I would prefer an updated version as well, new info can always be found (while OLD info can be good and very true - the only book that is old that I TOTALLY believe in is the Bible! and there is no mention of glider diets there either LOL)


Edited by JillMarie (03/01/09 04:42 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling and humor
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#743068 - 03/01/09 05:41 AM Re: Australian glider diet [Re: JillMarie]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
I have the book by Tyndale-Boscoe
While I agree it is interesting...it is quite old (over 10 years) I am sure there must be some update to the info in it. Also contains VERY LITTLE info on sugar gliders specifically. ALMOST NO INFO on their dietary needs, and NONE on the needs of captive animals.
the book by Ian Hume I looked for on Amazon. quite pricey so will not be purchasing but it too is old (10 years) I would prefer an updated version as well, new info can always be found (while OLD info can be good and very true - the only book that is old that I TOTALLY believe in is the Bible! and there is no mention of glider diets there either LOL)


There are two books by Hugh Tyndale-Biscoe of the same name and they have totally different content. The more current book was published in 2005. You will find no references to diets of captive gliders in this book as this is a biological reference book for Australian wildlife not captive ones.

There is no updated version of Marsupial Nutrition but I did recently purchase a brand new copy of the book on Ebay for a friend for approx. $7US. It does retail though at a lot more than that.Again it is aimed at a reference book for nutrition of wild animals not captive ones.

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