Ok, so here is my little one's story. Many many know how long I waited to finally have little joey's running around here (approx. 7 yrs.) Prada and Armani granted me that wish! They gave me two very sweet baby leu girls. Now, I know they were girls because I once sexed a joey wrong for a friend whose gliders were staying with me, , so I checked MANY times with my own! Others that visited me of course had to check too, knowing the story. Both girls.
Well, about 4mos. later I noticed a bald spot on Alia's head. Truth is...I thought her daddy was teaching her bad habits because the two are inseperable during playtime. I even told friends this on the phone. NOT ONCE did it dawn on any of us she might be a boy?!? Well, when Cami and her brother came OOP, I was giving out treats to the family, and what do I see? Alia had a penis. STILL didn't dawn on me really...I just figured it was a body part. Next day, during treat time, I see it again. SAY WHAT?!? Yes, it was still there and was still a penis. So I get Alia out and do a real good body part check, and she also has a pouch. Not a full pouch at this point in time, but pouch nonetheless. I call him more boy, because he looks like a boy with his bald spot and of course, his other body part.
Pics below.
He is sooooooooooo soooooooooooo sooooooooooooo sweet, and a very special guy.
Miss Lily and Bud Prada and Armani Tessa, Deuce and Cami
Huh. Are you going to get him neutered? Does he / she have female organs inside? Have there been any other gliders like this? Very interesting...gorgeous color!
Sabrina
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: reeny]
#748362 03/11/0911:15 PM03/11/0911:15 PM
I am not going to get him neutered. The procedure is too invasive for me and is really not necessary. Chances are very high he is sterile, and if not, he probably couldn't produce anyway (although we know almost anything IS possible.) I do plan to have a necropsy on Deuce when that day comes so we can learn as much as possible, but until then, he's just one special boy.
Karin
Miss Lily and Bud Prada and Armani Tessa, Deuce and Cami
Ok, so no testicals? I don't think I see any........ and this would explain how 'she' was first sexed as a girl. But so wouldn't this mean that he couldn't get any of the girls pregnant? Guess he sure does have something in there giving him a sex drive though. With all the hanky panky play you were talking about. And ya, I guess there would have to be male hormones for the bald spots/scent glands. Still curious about what's inside...........
I am not going to get him neutered. The procedure is too invasive for me and is really not necessary. Chances are very high he is sterile, and if not, he probably couldn't produce anyway (although we know almost anything IS possible.) I do plan to have a necropsy on Deuce when that day comes so we can learn as much as possible, but until then, he's just one special boy.
Karin
Very interesting and a great picture! There wouldn't be any way to neuter him/her if you wanted to since there's no pom/testicles, right?
Unless there are testicles inside? This is unknown. I will be contacting my vet, Dr. Ness, who has researched gliders for many years and consult with him. But I highly doubt I would ever choose to have any surgery just to find out, ya know what I mean?
Karin
Miss Lily and Bud Prada and Armani Tessa, Deuce and Cami
Ok... I've been thinking about him Karin and tell me if this is right...
Now I think the way to tell if he's a boy or girl is for him to mate... Because if he can produce, as in act as a boy then he'd be a boy and if he can't produce that would mean he's a girl or sterile. He's sterile because he's a leu, correct? If he mates as a girl and has babies IP then he'd be a girl, correct?
Hopefully that made sense. Because I DO believe that hermaphrodite humans can produce if they are a male, and get pregant if they are a female. Or am I wrong on that? I don't know much about them... but I'd love to learn. Isn't it like 1 in 5 humans are hermaphrodites? I believe that it's common... because when I read about it I was like whoa... didn't think it was that common.
Sorry for the rant Karin! It's just so amazing!
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: Karin]
#748390 03/11/0911:43 PM03/11/0911:43 PM
Unless there are testicles inside? This is unknown. I will be contacting my vet, Dr. Ness, who has researched gliders for many years and consult with him. But I highly doubt I would ever choose to have any surgery just to find out, ya know what I mean?
Karin
Yeah... I would be too scared to have surgery. Can you tell by x-rays or does it not work like that?
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: ]
#748400 03/11/0911:53 PM03/11/0911:53 PM
I am not going to let him mate though. Since he is a hermaphrodite, he genetically could reproduce another. Chances of their life span being *normal* are not high, also. Too many unknowns.
Not sure about an x-ray, but I doubt it would show testicles. I really do not know.
Also, if he does have testes inside, would the sperm overcook...so to speak...and be viable? It could happen I suppose, but I just don't think it's likely. He will be house with 2 girls, but in my home I am on top of everything that goes on with the gliders so if he starts aggravating the girls, we may have to just have playtime everynight but seperate cages.
Karin
Miss Lily and Bud Prada and Armani Tessa, Deuce and Cami
You should get the vet to do an x-ray or something. So you can see what's in there. It would be very interesting to find out! He is a very adorable little suggie! I'm sure he is SO spoiled! Keep us updated on him!
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: ]
#748402 03/11/0911:54 PM03/11/0911:54 PM
Oh... Sorry I didn't know that their life span was shorter. I was just thinking about it and not to actually do it. Was just wondering if the logic is realistic. LOL.
He's cute though.
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: ]
#748418 03/12/0912:07 AM03/12/0912:07 AM
Very interesting! I had never heard of this in gliders before today. The picture is really great. There is no denying...it is there and it is in fact a penis. Definitely keep us updated on him!
I am not going to let him mate though. Since he is a hermaphrodite, he genetically could reproduce another. Chances of their life span being *normal* are not high, also. Too many unknowns.
Karin
I feel dumb for asking, but how could he get pregnant? Wouldn't the penis be in the way of impregnation?
I'm so sorry to hear about the shortened lifespan. I'm sure, however, that precious life will be filled to the max!
Little Deuce is just amazing! What a unique little glider! AND such a sweetie in person!
There isn't really any way to know definitively what this little one has on the inside, besides exploratory surgery. An Xray doesn't really show soft tissue. An ultrasound would give you a rough idea, but you wouldn't be able to tell if the little spheres you saw are ovaries, testicles, or even ovotesties.
Thank you SO MUCH for sharing with us, Karin! I especially appreciate how clearly the picture you took shows Deuce's anatomy.
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: Nara]
#748458 03/12/0901:54 AM03/12/0901:54 AM
It would be very unlikely that an xray would show testicals. An ultrasound, mri, or CT scan (are those even possible on a glider?) would. But like was said...why do it if you don't have to? Looks like a very handsome boy to me
~Deanna~ Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee (702)250-5236
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: DeeDancer]
#748463 03/12/0902:32 AM03/12/0902:32 AM
Even though he/she has a penis, the testicles would not create viable sperm unless a pom drops out of nowhere. The only possibility for joeys would be if in fact she has ovaries inside...as well as uterus. The penii maybe just be an added decoration :-)
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: ]
#748480 03/12/0907:52 AM03/12/0907:52 AM
Was thinking.... Is it possible the 'pouch' is actually inverted testies? Like nothing inside them-and they're tucked close to the body, appearing like a pouch? Just wondering out loud.
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: ]
#748496 03/12/0909:07 AM03/12/0909:07 AM
thank you for sharing your baby and he is very special no matter what
Debra Two sons in the U.S. Army Slaves to: Mikki, Loki & Thor dogs: Morgan & Isabella Bunnies Bob & TMan RIP Wellington, Minnie & Dazzle bunny, Willow July 6 2013, Squirtle 7-24-09, Maggie May 12-14-10
I don't know how his life span could be affected unless he has cryptorchidism. In that case, testicular cancer is very high and could be fatal. If his testicles are still in his abdomen they would be too warm to produce viable sperm.
An x-ray wouldn't show soft tissue but an ultrasound would.
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: ]
#748514 03/12/0910:06 AM03/12/0910:06 AM
Wow, that is the most interesting thing I have heard/seen in a while. I'm going to do some research on the subject... It will give me something to do while I'm bored at work. BTW, s/he is a total cutie!
Kim
You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses. -Ziggy
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
[Re: KimeyDiann]
#748525 03/12/0910:47 AM03/12/0910:47 AM