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#748355 - 03/11/09 10:09 PM Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite)
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Ok, so here is my little one's story. Many many know how long I waited to finally have little joey's running around here (approx. 7 yrs.) Prada and Armani granted me that wish! They gave me two very sweet baby leu girls. Now, I know they were girls because I once sexed a joey wrong for a friend whose gliders were staying with me, roflmao , so I checked MANY times with my own! Others that visited me of course had to check too, knowing the story. Both girls.

Well, about 4mos. later I noticed a bald spot on Alia's head. Truth is...I thought her daddy was teaching her bad habits because the two are inseperable during playtime. I even told friends this on the phone. NOT ONCE did it dawn on any of us she might be a boy?!? Well, when Cami and her brother came OOP, I was giving out treats to the family, and what do I see? Alia had a penis. STILL didn't dawn on me really...I just figured it was a body part. Next day, during treat time, I see it again. SAY WHAT?!? Yes, it was still there and was still a penis. So I get Alia out and do a real good body part check, and she also has a pouch. Not a full pouch at this point in time, but pouch nonetheless. I call him more boy, because he looks like a boy with his bald spot and of course, his other body part.

Pics below.

He is sooooooooooo soooooooooooo sooooooooooooo sweet, and a very special guy.


Attachments
DSCN1914.JPG

Description: Penis and pouch


_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#748360 - 03/11/09 10:13 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin]
reeny Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 1945
Loc: Miami, Fl
Ambiguous Genitalia!! That is amazing Karin. Has anyone ever seen this in gliders.
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#748361 - 03/11/09 10:15 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin]
Sabrina Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 1171
Loc: Never Never Land
Huh. Are you going to get him neutered? Does he / she have female organs inside? Have there been any other gliders like this? Very interesting...gorgeous color!
_________________________
Sabrina

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#748362 - 03/11/09 10:15 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: reeny]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
There are at least 2 others known, although both of those babies were more girl and one, if not both, produced joey's.

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#748365 - 03/11/09 10:17 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
I am not going to get him neutered. The procedure is too invasive for me and is really not necessary. Chances are very high he is sterile, and if not, he probably couldn't produce anyway (although we know almost anything IS possible.) I do plan to have a necropsy on Deuce when that day comes so we can learn as much as possible, but until then, he's just one special boy.

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#748367 - 03/11/09 10:20 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin]
DirtyPaws Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1823
Loc: Wichita Falls, Texas
"Yes, it was still there and was still a penis."

roflmao roflmao roflmao roflmao

Ok, so no testicals? I don't think I see any........ and this would explain how 'she' was first sexed as a girl. But so wouldn't this mean that he couldn't get any of the girls pregnant? Guess he sure does have something in there giving him a sex drive though. With all the hanky panky play you were talking about. And ya, I guess there would have to be male hormones for the bald spots/scent glands. Still curious about what's inside...........
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#748372 - 03/11/09 10:26 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: Karin
I am not going to get him neutered. The procedure is too invasive for me and is really not necessary. Chances are very high he is sterile, and if not, he probably couldn't produce anyway (although we know almost anything IS possible.) I do plan to have a necropsy on Deuce when that day comes so we can learn as much as possible, but until then, he's just one special boy.

Karin

Very interesting and a great picture! There wouldn't be any way to neuter him/her if you wanted to since there's no pom/testicles, right?
_________________________
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#748382 - 03/11/09 10:38 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: suggiemom1980]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Unless there are testicles inside? This is unknown. I will be contacting my vet, Dr. Ness, who has researched gliders for many years and consult with him. But I highly doubt I would ever choose to have any surgery just to find out, ya know what I mean?

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#748388 - 03/11/09 10:43 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: suggiemom1980]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Ok... I've been thinking about him Karin and tell me if this is right...

Now I think the way to tell if he's a boy or girl is for him to mate... Because if he can produce, as in act as a boy then he'd be a boy and if he can't produce that would mean he's a girl or sterile. He's sterile because he's a leu, correct? If he mates as a girl and has babies IP then he'd be a girl, correct?

Hopefully that made sense. Because I DO believe that hermaphrodite humans can produce if they are a male, and get pregant if they are a female. Or am I wrong on that? I don't know much about them... but I'd love to learn. Isn't it like 1 in 5 humans are hermaphrodites? I believe that it's common... because when I read about it I was like whoa... didn't think it was that common.


Sorry for the rant Karin! It's just so amazing!

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#748390 - 03/11/09 10:43 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Karin
Unless there are testicles inside? This is unknown. I will be contacting my vet, Dr. Ness, who has researched gliders for many years and consult with him. But I highly doubt I would ever choose to have any surgery just to find out, ya know what I mean?

Karin


Yeah... I would be too scared to have surgery. Can you tell by x-rays or does it not work like that?

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#748400 - 03/11/09 10:53 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
I am not going to let him mate though. Since he is a hermaphrodite, he genetically could reproduce another. Chances of their life span being *normal* are not high, also. Too many unknowns.

Not sure about an x-ray, but I doubt it would show testicles. I really do not know.

Also, if he does have testes inside, would the sperm overcook...so to speak...and be viable? It could happen I suppose, but I just don't think it's likely. He will be house with 2 girls, but in my home I am on top of everything that goes on with the gliders so if he starts aggravating the girls, we may have to just have playtime everynight but seperate cages.

Karin
_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#748401 - 03/11/09 10:54 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered


You should get the vet to do an x-ray or something. So you can see what's in there. It would be very interesting to find out!
He is a very adorable little suggie! I'm sure he is SO spoiled! wink
Keep us updated on him!

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#748402 - 03/11/09 10:54 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 8321
Loc: Quincy, IL 62305
I bare witness to this, I saw both Deuce's penis and his pouch and he does in fact have both and he sure is the sweetest baby ever!!!
_________________________
Lynsie,
LuckyYou Gliders


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#748413 - 03/11/09 11:01 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Lynsie]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Karin,

Oh... Sorry I didn't know that their life span was shorter. I was just thinking about it and not to actually do it. Was just wondering if the logic is realistic. LOL.

He's cute though. smile

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#748418 - 03/11/09 11:07 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
An ultrasound would show - but that would involve anesthesia - and again, why do it just to do it!?

Could we please see pictures of his FACE??
_________________________
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"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#748420 - 03/11/09 11:09 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 10569
Loc: IL (St. Louis area)
Very interesting! I had never heard of this in gliders before today. The picture is really great. There is no denying...it is there and it is in fact a penis. roflmao Definitely keep us updated on him!
_________________________
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#748437 - 03/11/09 11:34 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: StitchsMom]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
My beautiful face.


Attachments
DSCN1970.JPG

Description: Deuce


_________________________
Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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#748438 - 03/11/09 11:35 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: StitchsMom]
Nara Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 144
Loc: Illinois
By the way, very fitting name, discrete, but accurate. I like it!
_________________________
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Mommy to: Miko and Mizuki
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Asher 4-25-08 to 2-1-09

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#748444 - 03/11/09 11:48 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: Karin
I am not going to let him mate though. Since he is a hermaphrodite, he genetically could reproduce another. Chances of their life span being *normal* are not high, also. Too many unknowns.


Karin


I feel dumb for asking, but how could he get pregnant? Wouldn't the penis be in the way of impregnation?

I'm so sorry to hear about the shortened lifespan. I'm sure, however, that precious life will be filled to the max!
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#748445 - 03/11/09 11:53 PM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Nara]
Nina
Unregistered


Little Deuce is just amazing! What a unique little glider! AND such a sweetie in person!

There isn't really any way to know definitively what this little one has on the inside, besides exploratory surgery. An Xray doesn't really show soft tissue. An ultrasound would give you a rough idea, but you wouldn't be able to tell if the little spheres you saw are ovaries, testicles, or even ovotesties.

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing with us, Karin! I especially appreciate how clearly the picture you took shows Deuce's anatomy.

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#748458 - 03/12/09 12:54 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Nara]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
It would be very unlikely that an xray would show testicals. An ultrasound, mri, or CT scan (are those even possible on a glider?) would. But like was said...why do it if you don't have to? Looks like a very handsome boy to me heart
_________________________
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#748463 - 03/12/09 01:32 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: DeeDancer]
dblondfemme
Unregistered


Even though he/she has a penis, the testicles would not create viable sperm unless a pom drops out of nowhere. The only possibility for joeys would be if in fact she has ovaries inside...as well as uterus. The penii maybe just be an added decoration :-)

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#748480 - 03/12/09 06:52 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
Karin thank you for sharing your story and I love his name. What a handsome boy.


Edited by BCChins (03/12/09 06:52 AM)
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#748482 - 03/12/09 07:20 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: BCChins]
TaterTots
Unregistered


what a cutie!

Was thinking.... Is it possible the 'pouch' is actually inverted testies? Like nothing inside them-and they're tucked close to the body, appearing like a pouch? Just wondering out loud.

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#748496 - 03/12/09 08:07 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
saturngirl Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 2448
Loc: Columbia, SC
Wow Deuce is a beautiful glider. Just amazing. What a special baby.
_________________________
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#748504 - 03/12/09 08:26 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: saturngirl]
vagraphix Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 3080
Loc: Hampton, Virginia
thank you for sharing your baby and he is very special no matter what
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Two sons in the U.S. Army
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#748506 - 03/12/09 08:28 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: saturngirl]
DelilahsMom
Unregistered


I don't know how his life span could be affected unless he has cryptorchidism. In that case, testicular cancer is very high and could be fatal. If his testicles are still in his abdomen they would be too warm to produce viable sperm.

An x-ray wouldn't show soft tissue but an ultrasound would.

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#748514 - 03/12/09 09:06 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ]
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
Originally Posted By: dblondfemme
The penis maybe just be an added decoration :-)


roflmao Sorry but that just sounds very funny.
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#748518 - 03/12/09 09:24 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: krysKritters]
KimeyDiann Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 459
Loc: Mississippi
Wow, that is the most interesting thing I have heard/seen in a while. I'm going to do some research on the subject... It will give me something to do while I'm bored at work.
BTW, s/he is a total cutie!
_________________________
Kim

You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses.
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#748525 - 03/12/09 09:47 AM Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: KimeyDiann]
caliejean86
Unregistered


The penis maybe just be an added decoration :-)


I thought that sounded funny too.

I am going to tell my husband that his is.

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