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#758296 - 03/31/09 05:14 PM Biting. Does anyone have suggestions?
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Ok I made a post about a month ago I believe... asking people to give me suggestions on how to get Pixie to stop biting. Here I am again hoping we can keep trying it again.

So... what am I doing wrong? Is it just a time thing? I got her on Feb 6. She's an older glider. And she WILL cuddle with me. In fact she's curled up on my stomach, curled up on my hand under the blanket.

Sooo... how do I get her to stop biting. Trust me it's not a pretty bite. She doesn't lunge or anything but it hurts. And I was told not to back away when they bite so I just let it happen. She's biting hard enough where it's leaving bruises and marks. I bruise easily though.

Now that makes it sound like either I'm mistreating her or she's mean. She's not mean per say. But I don't get why she's biting me! This has been going on ever since I got her. I'll reach over to pet her and she'll grab my hand, like grip it and bite down. I get so upset with myself when she does this frown

So here I am again... asking for YOUR help. I'll take any suggestions. Hopefully we can get past this. I've heard so may success stories... Can mine be one of them?

I spoil her like crazy!

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#758326 - 03/31/09 05:51 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
kardansma
Unregistered


I'm kinda new to the whole sugar glider area and my male does that too. I've noticed when he first wakes up he isn't so aggressive so I take advantage of that time and give him little massages. Also when I get them out to play I do the sneak attack for petting so as not to give him the opportunity to bite right away. He seems to be mellowing out and not trying to bite as often. I've only had my pair since January so I'm no authority.

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#758351 - 03/31/09 06:17 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


She really is a sweetie... at least I think she is. I love her so much it just makes me heart broken every time she bites me frown

It hurts and I hate looking at my hand seeing the bruises from her... just wondering why she's doing it. Like right now she's in her pouch and I can pet her... then she just decides she wants to bite usually when she's up. She's staring at me letting me pet her. She'll even curl up under my hand.

I just want to know how to make it stop. It's breaking my heart. frown

I hope she will change and I can make it stop. I just have to figure out how?

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#758376 - 03/31/09 06:48 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
Zoey_Girl
Unregistered


It takes time. Especially with an older glider. I got Zoey and she was nine months oop. The guy that had her never handled her. She was either in a bonding pouch or cage. She was not happy and it took me 6 months to get her stop biting. She got me on the shoulder once so bad that I have scars. When she finally started settling down a little I got her a mate. Ziggy must make her happy because she became sweet and loving very quickly after we put them together. He was sweet when we got him I guess he rubbed off on her.

You get out of a glider what you put in to them. If you give up so will they. I know you are getting discouraged but don't give up.

Something else I just thought of, sounds silly but, have you tried washing your hands with ivory soap? I read somewhere on here that they do not like that. I don't know if it works. I know that if I have handled food before i handled mine they will nip me.

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#758390 - 03/31/09 06:58 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Ivory soap... no I don't use that.

I'm not getting discouraged it just breaks my heart.

I got her from a breeder and he said he never knew her as a biter. I don't know how much 'out' time she got. But with lots of gliders I'm sure it's not as much as she's getting now. He had her since she was a baby.

It's not so much dealing with the bites it's just when she bites me it's breaking my heart. I don't know how to stop it. She has a cage mate... she's younger than her. I got Tinkerbell when she was ready and they were introduced the same day I got them... I just don't know how to make her stop. She's actually trying to hold me down to bite me. I just don't get it.

One night when I had them out, she was on top of their cage (in their room) and I was playing with Tinkerbell, she was gliding. I put my arm down... not knowing that Pixie was there - not on her or anything just by her and she bit me. It's not a nibble it's a bite. frown It's just so upsetting.

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#758402 - 03/31/09 07:12 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
Try licky treats (banana pudding or fruit yogurt)on the handle tip of a spoon. Offer a licky treat every few times you go to her cage. And don't grab her out of her cage for bonding time. Work on trust first. Look for past post on GC "pouch protective gliders" to learn more ways to gain your gliders trust. Bourbon worked with me and my Bobby and now he is the sweetest guy ever. I'm now working with Aries (bad name choice- God of War) who is a crabber and biter too. After just 2 weeks he still crabs but no longer bites hard, though if startled he will nip me. I'll PM you with more.
_________________________
Elena
http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#758403 - 03/31/09 07:13 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
Your PM limit has been reached so PM me please.
_________________________
Elena
http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#758409 - 03/31/09 07:19 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


She's not a pouch protector though. She'll cuddle up and everything. That's why I'm saying she's weird. ohwell

She doesn't run away from me or anything like that. She just bites me when she feels like it. She's not a launcher.

In fact... I think she only bites when she's out of her pouch. I don't grab her. I NEVER grab her. I take the pouch out. She's the one that wants to cuddle... she'll come out of the pouch as soon as I set it on my lap and curl up under the blanket.

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#758416 - 03/31/09 07:22 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
That is different. Do you use licky treats? I know you said you spoil her but I've seen lickys work wonders.
_________________________
Elena
http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#758435 - 03/31/09 07:57 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003]
Sqooky
Unregistered


Both my girls are biters. They just like to taste everything, and Lilly tastes pretty hard sometimes. I have learned to just expect it that was I'm not going to pull away. I try to be consistent when she does it with making a hiss noise to let her know that it hurts. She always stops and looks at me when I do it. I'm throughly convinced she thinks that if she bites me yogart will come out.

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#758439 - 03/31/09 08:05 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003]
ErichB
Unregistered


Lickies? Sorry but I have to disagree I've talked to breeders about this and sure lickies stop biting...Well it limits it to your finger tips.

And banana pudding?! From everything I've read banana's are very bad for Suggies there is too much of a chemical in it...It starts with an 'M' I can't remember. But maybe because it's in pudding form that dilutes it?

But as I was saying from everything I've read and been told lickies make tip nipper's. Like my bestfriend's Glider Bo started nipping after she started Licky. I guess they just want to check if there's anything there!

Cute little guys.

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#758467 - 03/31/09 08:46 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Giving licky treats from the end of a spoon can be used on gliders that aren't pouch protective, also. That is a biting technique, not necessarily a trust building technique. Trying that could still work for you, Erica, especially since it seems that nothing else has worked for you.

Erich, giving licky treats is an awesome trust building tool. It teaches your gliders that your hands bring yummies-nothing to be scared of. I honestly don't believe that using licky treats create biters OR limit bites to fingertips. Gliders bite when the food runs out, so if you have a glider that bites when the treat is all gone, don't let the treat run out. Give three licks, and then redip your finger. Don't let them lick long enough to bite you. Eventually they will learn that they do not need to bite in order to get more good stuff.

I'm surprised you are concerned with the banana and not the high sugar content of the pudding. In response to both of those, occasional banana will not kill your glider. I wouldn't use it in a diet because of its terrible Ca:P ratio (and I'm not sure if there are other issues with it when fed long term?), but as a treat it should be fine. Chocolate cake certainly isn't GOOD for me, but I eat it every once in a while as a treat for myself and it's no big deal.


_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#758474 - 03/31/09 08:53 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
Originally Posted By: ErichB
Lickies? Sorry but I have to disagree I've talked to breeders about this and sure lickies stop biting...Well it limits it to your finger tips.

But as I was saying from everything I've read and been told lickies make tip nipper's. Like my bestfriend's Glider Bo started nipping after she started Licky. I guess they just want to check if there's anything there!

Cute little guys.


Actually licky treats do train them not to bite, I know this from personal experience agree Gliders naturally will bit when the licky treat runs out, like they bite to get sap in the wild, the trick is to be ready with the reload. Only allow a few licks at a time.

If you think about it it makes perfect sense, give your gliders a piece of dried fruit by hand and they will open their mouth and bite it to take it. Same with mealings. You are teaching them when they see your hand it's time to open up for a yummy treat. And fingers look just the same as atreat to them when they are excited lol. By giving licy treats you train them to lick, so when the see your hands they will lick you!
_________________________

:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow









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#758500 - 03/31/09 09:11 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Ok guys! THANKS! Keep them coming. I'm reading these in order... so here it goes.

Originally Posted By: hpyhwn2003
That is different. Do you use licky treats? I know you said you spoil her but I've seen lickys work wonders.


I've NEVER used lickily treats. I know that some people before said to me maybe she thinks that treats will come out. But I haven't given her any for that reason. I'm terrified to do lickily treats. I DO give her treats but not like apple sauce and yogurt. So Sqooky... I don't think that's the problem ohwell

Erich,
Yes... I'm afraid that using lickily treats would entice her more to bite. So I'm against this method. I'm sorry guys for those that recommend it but... just for me I personally would prefer not to.

Deanna,
Hmm... I personally think that by giving her lickily treats it would entice her to bite me. Because I believe that she would think my finger pours out treats... If you get what I mean.
Do I really have a trust issue with her? Because she'll snuggle up and everything with me. She's not scared of me or anything. It's just the biting.

Erin,
Like I said before... I'm a little skeptical of this 'lickily treats' idea...

Thanks so much guys for all the ideas hug2 Keep them coming. I really appreciate your help.

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#758501 - 03/31/09 09:13 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: SugareeErin]
ErichB
Unregistered


As they say you learn new things everyday!

So the trick is to 'reload' your finger tips I'll keep that in mind and pass it on. But yes I'm worried about the whole pudding thing in general I was thinking about the sugar levels...buut I think it slipped as I was typing. Ops!

I was aware in giving treats from your hand they learn your hand is a good thing, I wasn't sure where I sat on the bench when it came to lickies though but thanks again and I'll keep it in mind.

smile Thanks.

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#758505 - 03/31/09 09:16 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


I wanted to add... What's the difference between giving them treats from my hand vs my finger? I'm using my hands to give her treats to tell her my hand means good things.
I'm just wondering how lickily treats would make a difference?

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#758634 - 04/01/09 12:30 AM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
sweetReaper Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 1048
Loc: Londonderry, NH
My girls have been doing great but just tonight, my girl Chihiro has started biting e again like CRAZY. She is so calm and sweet yet she bites me all the time (no lunging or anything) She will snuggle with me and run around on me and the next thing I know my neck gets bitten, my feet get bitten, my hands and arms get bitten... It confuses me so much. For about a week things were great and she never bit me... Now she has gotten back into it and even the "PSST" sound that worked like magic before does not work. She hardly ever crabs and is so sweet... so I don't really understand. And I am POSITIVE that I do not smell like anything or have anything on me that smells... Maybe it is the weather or something.. Or I just had a lucky week haha
_________________________
Sarah is currently a slave to:

Joe <3 - boyfriend
Kasu, Chihiro, Haku, Io - the suggies :bb: :grey: :grey: :rtmo:
Miki :rbridge: You are greatly missed <3
Fuuko, Rin, Hinata - the ratties
Two super cute axolotls

"It can't rain all the time" - Eric Draven

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#758662 - 04/01/09 02:26 AM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: sweetReaper]
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1414
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
I use honey as a licky treat. I limit it very much... I have only used 2-3 Tablespoons in 4 months. But for Adam, who has a problem with biting, I let his mate, Eve lick my finger first, then I watch his mouth VERY carefully to see what his intent is... (if he wants to bite, he bares his teeth slightly and opens his mouth more.) If he looks like he wants to lick, I allow him a couple licks, and if he tries to bite, or looks like he may, I pull my finger away from him.

After his abcess ordeal, he was very pouch protective, and bit a lot. But I learned to use the small bottle of honey for him... that way if he tries to bite it, it's hard plastic... but he learns that it is not pleasant to bite for the treat, but if he licks, he gets more.
Once he got used to the bottle, I worked up to feeding it from my finger. I trust my gliders to lick my fingers clean and not bite.

I also have disassociated the mealworms with my hand. I give them mealies as a treat ONLY with a tweezers. We had a painful incident where Oakley got overexcited about the mealie and bit my finger quite hard.

Since the only treats I use my hands for are licky, they learn that there is no benefit to biting my hands. And they get the things to bite with a tweezers. This also allows me to stick my fingers through the side of the cage without fear.

I don't reccomend using a LOT of licky treats, I only give them a couple drops each per day.

I also use the Priscilla price diet, so the mealworms that we use as treats can be abundant because they need a certian amount in the diet, and they are just given in treat form. Priscilla's also does not use honey (HPW does), so it's an extra special treat for them... everyone goes nuts over the honey.
_________________________
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Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com

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#758704 - 04/01/09 08:06 AM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: wildlifeangel]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
I have one who is bonded to me, but LOVES to give me love bites. She's been this way since I got her a year ago. She's not mean, not pouch protective, in fact she's a bra baby, but she is constantly nipping when she's on me. Licky treats have helped a great deal (I generally use yogurt), but, I think some gliders just explore by mouth more than others and it becomes a habit that you have to learn to either predict or live with wink
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#758705 - 04/01/09 08:17 AM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: BeckiT]
Sqooky
Unregistered


I don't think she really thinks you are filled with yougart. When I was working with bourbon she had me give licky treats to Pogo & Lilly. Start with the end of a wooden spoon and when they don't bite that move onto your finger. I really didnt care if she bit me or not so I started with my finger. The trick though is to let them lick once or twice and then take your finger away and turn your back to them. if they lick you when you don't have licky treats you are also supposed to take your hand away.

The goal is to show them that biting makes you stay and licking makes you go away.

While Pogo and Lilly still bite, I assure you the licky treats have done wonders. It is much less or an attack in fear and more of a "Mom your hand is in my way?"

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#759120 - 04/01/09 10:18 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


She's not a pouch protective glider though... That's why I'm saying she doesn't launch. She'll curl up and everything... she prefers to be out on me most of the time than in her pouch.

She was on my stomach today and she decided to try to groom me through my shirt... I'm VERY ticklish and I started laughing she kept doing it then bit down HARD... She then out of no where did it again like three or four times. Now I have about five bite marks on my stomach frown

She bit my hand about five times today but that's because I was trying to put her back in the pouch when she didn't want to go in. She was REALLY weird today and wanted to be up instead of sleeping so I said no or you're going in your cage and she bit down hard like four times. And I put her in her cage.
That's the only time I was ok with her bites because I knew she was upset.

I just want it to stop. And I'm WAY too scared to use lickily treats. She's already bitten me really hard while I give her mealies.

I just want this biting to stop frown It's making me so upset and I'm getting so frustrated thinking I'm upsetting her or something. It's tearing me to shreds.

She's NOT a crabber, or a launcher. She doesn't launch. She never does. That's why I'm wondering what's going on?

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#759157 - 04/01/09 11:20 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
Deanna,
Hmm... I personally think that by giving her lickily treats it would entice her to bite me. Because I believe that she would think my finger pours out treats... If you get what I mean.
Do I really have a trust issue with her? Because she'll snuggle up and everything with me. She's not scared of me or anything. It's just the biting.


Erica,

I do think you have a trust issue with her, but its not the kind you're thinking of. I think YOU don't trust HER and she's picking up on it. I strongly believe that gliders pick up on human emotions. I think that until you learn to trust her, she will continue to bite you.

I have a question. If she wanted to be up today, why didn't you let her be up? Did you use your hand to force her back into the pouch/cage? I'm assuming you must have used your hand, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to bite it.

I use licky treats with my former biters and they do not think my finger is a treat machine. I think someone already said this, but here's the idea with licky treats. When your hand brings licky treats, then your glider realizes that good things come when she licks your hand. When your hand brings bitey treats (mealies, yogies, etc.) then she learns that good things come from your hand when she bites. You even said that she already bit you when you were giving her mealies.

Honestly, what do you have to lose by trying licky treats? Your reason for not trying licky treats is because you feel that it teaches gliders to bite, but yours is already biting, so even if your theory is correct nothing will change once you try lickies. I think that you are hesitant to try lickies because you fear your glider's bites. If it makes you feel better, start with the end of a wooden spoon like was discussed before, or you can try sucking up some licky in a 3 inch section of a straw (but if she bites this, go back to the spoon idea). If you start out with your fingers, since you do feel that she trusts you, make sure to do three licks and then redip so that the licky doesn't run out. When you do this, be sure you feel CONFIDENT and you TRUST her or she will pick up on your fear.

It seems to me that these are MOSTLY love bites. I say this because of when you said that she was grooming you a little too hard and it turned into a bite-fest. I think you need to deter her from grooming you, as this is teaching her to use her teeth. You may be hesitant to do this because you might feel that grooming is a good thing because it means she loves you, but I promise that she can show her love in other ways (like licks smile ) You have already experienced that grooming in sensitive areas is painful, and gliders have no sense of where on your body it is okay and not okay to groom, so you need to keep her from doing it at all.

Now, I say MOST of the bites are love bites because it is pretty clear (you even said it) that she bit you today because you were making her do something she did not want to do. With the exception of when her health is in jeopardy (putting her in an e-collar, pushing liquids, etc.) I feel that you should NEVER make a glider to something it doesn't want to do. That is something that betrays trust. This includes making her go back in her cage or pouch when she does not want to. You know why she bit you today, so please try not to put her in a situation like that again. If you need her to go in her cage, offer her cage or leave a mealie in her cage somewhere and show it to her so that she stays there to eat it. Don't force her.

I want you to try to watch her body language BEFORE she bites you. There is something that she does every time right before she bites. An example that I have heard many times is that someone here has a glider who lifts its front paw up right before it bites. That's its warning sign for the owner to back off. My glider lifts her head up just slightly. Sometimes it is something so small that only the owner would notice...but that's going to be your key to keeping her from biting you. Once you identify what her sign is, you will know when to change your action so that she does not bite. This is how you learn your glider on a different level and you can tell what she is about to do before she even does it.

I know that was long, but hopefully it was helpful. Please keep us updated on how things are going.
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#759170 - 04/01/09 11:54 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Deanna,

I did let her be up the only reason I was forcing her is because I was downstairs watching tv and I had her on me... She can't be out down there because the kitties are down there. So I had to put her in her cage. I have no problem her being up.
Yes, I had to force her into the pouch. It hurts me when I force her to do things that she doesn't like but I had to. I gave her a nice treat to tell her I was sorry for putting her in the cage but she can't be out right now. I NEVER force my babies to do anything and it hurt me to put her in the cage because I love them so much I would've let her out if I wasn't busy at the moment... The family was watching TV. If we weren't I would've let her out in her room.

Maybe you are right... Maybe I'm the problem and I don't trust her. But I thought I did.

Thanks for making me understand the lickily treats. I understand it completly now. I'm going to see if I have any lickilies around here. We have some honey so I'll try that tonight.

YES! She does put her head up. But she's putting her head up to bite, as in the only notification she gives me is she moves her head towards me. But I'm not doing anything. She's biting me for no reason. Usually it's something simple as me just wanting to pet her. I don't get it.
I DO have time to back away since like I said she's not a launcher. But people told me not to back away because she'll learn to keep doing that to make me go away.

Thanks so much Deanna! Hopefully we can get through this smile Don't worry about it being too long. It was perfect. And thanks so much. You have no idea how much this means to me smile

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#759200 - 04/02/09 05:56 AM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Erica,

I am going to be very blunt here, because I feel that it is the best way to share this information. I want to say that as this is the internet, it is very difficult to convey emotion and tone of voice, so if any of this comes across as being rude, it is definitely not meant to be. You are asking for help, and I think that in order for any of us to help your glider, this conversation needs to happen.

First of all, if anyone on this board is going to be able to help you and Pixie, you're going to have to be completely honest with us. Yes, 100% honest. I'm going to give you some examples of things that you have said that are not 100% honest so that we can talk about what is true and what is not. We have to get to the bottom of what you are actually doing with Pixie in order to help you two.

In your post right above me, you said "Yes, I had to force her into the pouch." promptly followed by "I NEVER force my babies to do anything." You can see that these statements are contradictory. I also looked at your gallery. I noticed two pictures of Pixie on the first page where you are holding her down. In the second one that I'm talking about, you can see that Pixie's front feet are back as though she just finished trying to propel herself forward to get out from under your hand. There is fear in her eyes there. That is a prime example of forcing a glider to do something it does not want to.

So, when you said that you never force your gliders to do anything, that was not entirely true. We HAVE to be honest with each other here Erica or no one will be able to give you accurate advice.

Tyler said that Pixie did not bite when she was with him. When she got to you, she started biting. Now you have to ask yourself what you are doing different than Tyler that makes her feel the need to act this way.

You said she bites you for "no reason", but then went on to say that she bites you when you try to pet her. That's not "no reason". That's her telling you that she isn't comfortable with what you're doing. You've got to respect her teeth. When she uses them, she is trying to tell you something. You have gotten some great advice...OtteMom gave you fantastic advice in your last biting thread, Wildlifeangel gave some very clear, useful advice in this thread (as well as others).

It all comes down to learning Pixie's body language. You have to work up to being able to pet her by earning her trust, and to do that you have to trust her as well. Don't hold her down or on you if she comes out of the pouch during the day, even in the kitty room. Just walk to your room and let her settle down.

I know that you desperately want to hold her and love on her and you want her to love you back. I've definitely been there. But love comes with trust and trust is something that you have to earn. You aren't going to earn Pixie's trust by being forceful with her. This is something that my girl Nika and I had to learn the hard way, and for your sake and Pixie's sake I hope you two don't go that route.

You're a smart girl, I know that you understand forum dynamics. You don't want anyone to see you as a bad glider mommy, so you are saying what people want to hear-"No, I never force my glider into anything," "No, I'm not getting frustrated," "Yes, she trusts me." It's important to realize that everyone makes mistakes. If I told you some of the things that I did to my Nika when I first got her, you would feel sick to your stomach. Does that make me a bad glider mom? No, I don't think so, but only because I was able to recognize that I was wronging her and change MY behavior. My glider's behavior changed when I was willing to change MY behavior. Admitting that you are just dying to have her love you and perhaps being a bit impatient about it is not saying anything more than ALL of us here have felt and a LOT of us have acted on. We've been where you have. We understand and we don't think less of you for it hug2

I don't doubt your love for Pixie AT ALL. I do feel that in order to gain her trust, you will have to exhibit patience. I KNOW it is hard, trust me! But it WILL pay off in the end.

If you want to talk to me about any of this off of the forum, my phone number is in my signature and my email address is jones.2739@osu.edu hug2
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#759521 - 04/02/09 06:32 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: DeeDancer

First of all, if anyone on this board is going to be able to help you and Pixie, you're going to have to be completely honest with us. Yes, 100% honest. I'm going to give you some examples of things that you have said that are not 100% honest so that we can talk about what is true and what is not. We have to get to the bottom of what you are actually doing with Pixie in order to help you two.


I'm perfectly fine with you being blunt. I've said nothing but the truth on here and I will continue to do so. I appreciate your help and would never read it in a bad way. smile
I'm sorry that you think that I was being dishonest but maybe I can explain why maybe you feel this way... maybe you read it wrong.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer

In your post right above me, you said "Yes, I had to force her into the pouch." promptly followed by "I NEVER force my babies to do anything." You can see that these statements are contradictory. I also looked at your gallery. I noticed two pictures of Pixie on the first page where you are holding her down. In the second one that I'm talking about, you can see that Pixie's front feet are back as though she just finished trying to propel herself forward to get out from under your hand. There is fear in her eyes there. That is a prime example of forcing a glider to do something it does not want to.


Ok, first of let me say I have NEVER held ANY of my gliders down. NEVER I would NEVER do that.
Those pictures of me are of her curled up in my hand, she is not being forced in any way. The other picture is of me petting her. There is no pressure on her what so ever.
I don't know what feet one you are talking about. Could you please tell me which one.


Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
So, when you said that you never force your gliders to do anything, that was not entirely true. We HAVE to be honest with each other here Erica or no one will be able to give you accurate advice.

I told you specifically that was the ONLY time that I have forced her. I've been so honest it's not even funny.
I said it hurt me to put her back into the pouch. She didn't
want to be asleep at that moment so I put her in her cage where I put her favorite toy and gave her treats so she'd be ok. I don't FORCE her to do things.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
Tyler said that Pixie did not bite when she was with him. When she got to you, she started biting. Now you have to ask yourself what you are doing different than Tyler that makes her feel the need to act this way.

Like I said before you/we have no clue how long he even played with her. He's a breeder so he has a ton of gliders. I'm probably spending more time than he did with her. I believe he said that's the reason why he's re homing her.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
It all comes down to learning Pixie's body language. You have to work up to being able to pet her by earning her trust, and to do that you have to trust her as well. Don't hold her down or on you if she comes out of the pouch during the day, even in the kitty room. Just walk to your room and let her settle down.

I'm NOT holding her down. Where are you getting this. If you knew me you'd not be saying that. I never have held her down. I only forced her back into the pouch ONCE and that was for her safety.
There are three cats down stairs... what was I suppose to do? Let her do whatever? I don't get what you want me to do. Because I can't let her out down there period. She wanted to play or whatever she wanted and I let her do it in her room. If I wasn't with the family I would've let her play.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
I know that you desperately want to hold her and love on her and you want her to love you back. I've definitely been there. But love comes with trust and trust is something that you have to earn. You aren't going to earn Pixie's trust by being forceful with her. This is something that my girl Nika and I had to learn the hard way, and for your sake and Pixie's sake I hope you two don't go that route.

Again, where are you getting this? I'm NOT holding her down. This REALLY hurts that you'd even say something like that. ANYONE that knows me, knows how I treat my pets. And holding them down I would never do.
She comes out on her own, curled up under the blanket in my hand. I'm NOT forcing her to do it... she does it on her own.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
You're a smart girl, I know that you understand forum dynamics. You don't want anyone to see you as a bad glider mommy, so you are saying what people want to hear-"No, I never force my glider into anything," "No, I'm not getting frustrated," "Yes, she trusts me." It's important to realize that everyone makes mistakes. If I told you some of the things that I did to my Nika when I first got her, you would feel sick to your stomach. Does that make me a bad glider mom? No, I don't think so, but only because I was able to recognize that I was wronging her and change MY behavior. My glider's behavior changed when I was willing to change MY behavior. Admitting that you are just dying to have her love you and perhaps being a bit impatient about it is not saying anything more than ALL of us here have felt and a LOT of us have acted on. We've been where you have. We understand and we don't think less of you for it hug2

You really don't understand. I'm NOT lying. This is really frustrating me that you think I'm doing all these things to her which are not true.
I've never held her down. I pushed her back into the pouch for her SAFETY. Period. That's it. I don't force her to be held, I don't hold her down. I don't get where you are getting these things.
ANYONE that knows me like I said before would be amazed that you even said that. I let my pets control me. I would never do something like that to her. I don't do anything except hiss when she bites me. I'm torn to shreds and my heart is broken but I take them because I'm trying real hard for her to understand how much I care about her.

Thanks for the help... I did do the honey on the finger tips last night. Tinkerbell loved it. LOL. Pixie licked some but only a little bit. I don't know if she likes honey... But she did lick which was good. I'll try it again in a little bit. smile

Keep the ideas coming smile Thanks everyone hug2

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#759533 - 04/02/09 06:50 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Sorry if that came off mean... Didn't mean it.

But when people say I'm forcing my animals to do something I get protective. I care a lot about them, so much so that you don't understand if you knew me. I would never do something like that. And I don't understand why you'd think that I'm forcing her down.
I can't believe you would even think that in those pictures I'm doing so. It breaks my heart that someone would say such a thing. frown

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#759581 - 04/02/09 08:12 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2529
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
She's biting hard enough where it's leaving bruises and marks. I bruise easily though.
Erica, I couldn't help but notice your description of the bites from your first post in this thread. Has Pixie ever drawn blood? Now THAT would be a biter, which I know from personal experience, several times I might add! grin She may just be letting you know that you are in her space. Their teeth and their crabbing are their only defense. She is an exotic animal, not a puppy and you may be expecting too much from her at this point in your bonding. Even a kitty can be loving and affectionate, then WHAM! Back off, they are done!

It's obvious that you are doing your best to be a good glider mom, and that you have spoiled babies. I watched your post count sky-rocket into the thousands while researching BEFORE you even got your gliders! Just try to relax, enjoy your babies, and focus on the progress you have made. Deanna is trying really hard to help you, and WANTS you to succeed. Work with the suggestions you have been given. They come from experience and I'm sure they aren't meant to hurt your feelings.


PS - I have TWO spoiled dragons ... BEARDIES ROCK!
_________________________
~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Athena/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Gypsy/Ramon/Paloma
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon

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#759613 - 04/02/09 08:58 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: nancy1202]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


Thank you Nancy. I would never take anything wrong from Deanna... it just hurts when someone says something like that to me about my gliders. I take everything she says into consideration because I really appreciate her.

She has only drawn blood once. I had my hand on the pouch (holding it).. wasn't paying attention to her and it was really dark in the room. I was doing something with Tinkerbell (this was like a week after I got them) and she bit me. That's when she drew blood. It's only been once though.

I'm trying really hard with her and I would never give up on my babies. I don't consider them like a cat. I know they are exotic, Kirby is exotic... even though they are not the same hopefully you get what I mean by that. I'm reading everything you guys have to say and I really appreciate all your help. smile

P.S. LOL. Kirby is VERY spoiled. He's got his own bed and gets tucked in every night. He's potty trained and gets bathed daily. He's my baby. (I have pics in my gallery of him wink )

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#759936 - 04/03/09 02:14 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Erica, I do hope deanna and the rest here can help you.. just to explain some things here for you though..


"learn your gliders body language", she will talk to you, it is up to you to listen to her.

ears,watch the positioning of her ears.

eyes, look into her eyes, they will speak volumes to you

nose. watch for signs of her being stressed..

any muscle twitches and slight shivers

movements of the head and mouth (your words, she turns her head before she bites) slowly move your hand out of her way, this is her sign to you what she is going to do next.

you are more relaxed with tinkerbell and seem afraid of pixie, maybe not because of the bite, but at maybe her getting far from you. this is evident in the pics in your gallery.

you have 2 pictures on your gallery page on the front page with your hand on top of the glider. in both cases the glider is awake but the first glider is labeled as pixie, when in reality it is tinkerbell, her ears are more relaxed as her eyes are as well. the second pic of your hand on the glider is definitely pixie. her ears are in "half mode, meaning she feels a bit weary, leary, uneasy. (this can also be seen in the pics of tinkerbell on the 2nd page when you were playing with her, her body language shows she is a little apprehensive. look at her ears, her eyes, and her body movement, although she was having a good time, she was still a bit scared.

BUT.... you are less afraid around tinkerbell, far more relaxed, far more trusting of her,

although tinkerbell is coming around and learning to trust you, Pixie still seems like she is the glider that wants to go and be on the move a lot. she probably likes to be left alone more.

do not take pixie into places where if she wants, she can not come out to explore, play when SHE wants to. this is where the trust on both parts come in, if you are nervous about her coming out, or moving freely on you, she will sense that, if you don't listen to her body language, she will bite you plain and simple.

Deanna said respect her teeth, don't put anything in front of her mouth, know that those teeth will bite, IF she feels she needs to, notice I said needs, not wants. gliders will only bite if they feel the NEED.

as deanna said, start looking closer at what you are doing with her, find out what you are doing that she MAY perceive as a threat to her. she only has to think it is a threat, not that it is, but if she THINKS it is, then it is.

I do hope you let others help you here, they want you to have a relationship with your gliders, but it will be up to you.
_________________________
Baybe,My Roots

SGGA

CustomCruiser

BML

Sugar Glider Genetic Project

321-331-1608

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#759975 - 04/03/09 03:26 PM Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon]
prettyinpink
Unregistered


OMG! Now that I look at that picture I DID label it wrong... That is Tink! Oops... I'll have to relabel that one. I took one of Pixie right after that... I must have not of uploaded it. THANK YOU! I kept looking over and over to it and I'm like I think that's Tink...

I'm going to upload some more old pics of my babies.

I'm not ignoring anyone bourbon I'm listing to everything everyone has to say.

Now I'm trying so hard to watch her body language... but I don't see any hints she's giving me. I'm trying really hard but I don't see them. She's not tilting her head or moving her eyes.

What does this mean "but at maybe her getting far from you"
I think you may be right that I trust Tinkerbell more than Pixie. But I feel as though I trust them both. I LOVE them both... How do I stop that?

Ok looking at the other page... OOOH ears are in 'half mode' ok got that now. YUP she was scared. She didn't like being on there. I put her up there because she kept standing by me looking up there as if she wanted up. I put her up there and she was scared but started to like it. My dad was also in the room... so it wasn't just me.

Yes... as I recall Tyler told me that she was by herself (lone cage mate) and wanted her to be loved more. He did put her in with a male before he got adopted... then she got two cage mates like a few weeks before I got her. But as I recall she's been by herself and with the ones that need to be adopted. frown

I can't take Pixie where I want? I like taking them downstairs with me because they both come out and snuggle in my sweater pocket... Tinkerbell doesn't like to be without Pixie... Don't know how to fix that... can you?

I keep looking at her. I'm just softly petting her being super gentle and she bites me?

It's just upsetting me that you guys are saying it's all me frown You don't understand how much devotion I have for these guys. I love them so much and would do anything. I have no problem with deanna and I'm willing to work with her smile But when she basically says I'm being mean to her I'm going to get defensive. Again, I listen to what everyone has to say. And I'm glad everyone is trying to help me!

Thank you Bourbon... Hopefully we can get through this hug2

Tinkerbell just made progress like two or three weeks ago she started liking being on me and it made me cry the first time she did it because I was so happy. She's starting to come out and snuggle on me more often, usually only Pixie wants to come out and snuggle and Tinkerbell is very wherry.

Pixie is VERY curious of everything... she doesn't seem scared of anything. She was like that when I first got her. She came out of the pouch to see what I was doing when I was at Tylers hotel room. And Tinkerbell stayed in the pouch, she was FREAKED. We had to chase Tinkerbell down because she jumped out of my hands then out of Tyler's hands. I felt so bad for her. Pixie was just checking everything out.
Then when I got them in the car in their little cage Pixie was out checking everything out. Not Tinkerbell.
Like I said before Tyler told me I'd have to work with Tinkerbell and not Pixie.

When I first talked to Tyler about gliders I said I wanted to young ones. He said I have this very sweet older female if you are interested. I was so excited, and he knows how thrilled I was. I only wanted to young ones to start off with but when he told me about Pixie I had to have her. So I don't know if he was just trying to get me to buy her (which I HIGHLY doubt) or she misses him... OR which I think is the most likely he doesn't take her out very often and she's not used to getting so much attention. He has so many gliders and he definitely wouldn't be able to give her as much attention as I do.

Anyways sorry for the rant. I DO love her a lot. I hope you guys don't think oh she's just another glider that she got with Tinkerbell that she doesn't really care for. I DON'T... trust me if you knew me you wouldn't even think to say that. I love her a lot and I wouldn't write this post if I didn't and spend this much time trying to figure it out.

I really hope I can make it stop frown Is it possible? It's just she seems that she likes me... she'll curl up in my hand just like the pic of Tinkerbell that's why I thought it was her... But then like if I put my hand wrong when she's curled up she bites. Or if she wants to curl up and I'm doing something she'll bite me like HEY I'm here! Lemme sleep! She's confusing me.
She'll let me pet her then other times she won't. I don't get what I'm doing?

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