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#775493 - 05/05/09 08:17 PM Mosaic Question
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
When breeding a mosaic, is there any link between how much mosaic/white is on the parent and how much will be on the babies that turn out to be mosaic?

I hope that made sense...I know it was kind of a run-on.

For example, if the parent just has a white tail, does that mean the mosaic babies will tend to have white tails? If the parent is a white mosaic with mostly white & just a light grey stripe, does that indicate that the babies would have a lot of white? If a glider only has white feet, is it very likely to have mosaic babies?

I understand there's a 50-50 chance for mosaic babies when you pair a mosaic to a non-mosaic. I'm just wondering if there's a way to predict how much mosaic the mosaic babies will have.

Thanks,
Misty

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#775498 - 05/05/09 08:24 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
partyofsix
Unregistered


A mosaic glider no matter how little white they have can have any kind of mosaic. I don't think you can predict how much white their joeys will have. My mosaic Julian just has a white face, one white ear, a small white s shape on his neck, white hands and feet, and a white tail. His first joey is all white and looks like a leu at first glance.

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#775502 - 05/05/09 08:27 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
That is the fun of having a mosaic. You could have one with one white toe and the offspring of that glider be a be a white mosaic. You never know what you are going to get.
_________________________
ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL

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#775506 - 05/05/09 08:37 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: Sheila]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
That's what I was thinking, but wanted to confirm. The hubby and I are considering doing a trio with a male mosaic and two WFBs. Since these are primarily our pets, we really want a pretty mosaic but don't want to pay too crazy of a price. We found a white mosaic that we like but were kind of wondering if he'll really throw prettier babies than some other mosaics we found that have a white tail or a ring tail. The white mosaic is from possibly sterile lines that have been bred out.....the other ones aren't. So we're debating....do we get the super pretty white mosaic from sterile lines or do we get another one we think is really pretty but is a bit cheaper. Ahhh....decisions, decisions.

So....here's a related question: Does a white mosaic have white mosaic babies or can it have regular mosaic babies?

And if a glider only has white feet (and a mosaic parent) is it most definitely a mosaic?

Thanks,
Misty

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#775521 - 05/05/09 09:05 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
partyofsix
Unregistered


A white mosaic can have any form of mosaic.
I would think that if a glider has white feet and comes from mosaic lines that it is a mosaic. Unless it is from the champagne lines as I believe some of them have white hands and feet, but are not mosaics.

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#775527 - 05/05/09 09:11 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: ]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Thank you. Here's another one for you. When pairing a mosaic to a WFB mosaic, would 100% of their babies be mosaic? And 50% of their babies be WFB mosaic? Is there such a thing as WFB mosaic?

And another - if the mother of the same pairing is from sterile lines, would all of the male offspring be possibly sterile? And all of the female offspring be possibly passing on the sterility?

Misty

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#775549 - 05/05/09 09:35 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16083
Loc: Manitowoc, WI
Originally Posted By: IowaMisty
When pairing a mosaic to a WFB mosaic, would 100% of their babies be mosaic? And 50% of their babies be WFB mosaic? Is there such a thing as WFB mosaic?
Pairing 2 mosaics together does not increase your chance of getting mosaic babies (much like you can still have a gray with 2 WF parents), you can have mosaic, wf mosaic if one/both are wf, and even just gray babies.. Mosaic is not like the leu gene where if both parents show the color, all joeys will be that color. There are wf mosaics wink

Quote:
And another - if the mother of the same pairing is from sterile lines, would all of the male offspring be possibly sterile? And all of the female offspring be possibly passing on the sterility?
In most cases yes to both parts of sterility wink
_________________________
~Becki & Crew~
Glidin' High Sugar Gliders
So You Want to Own a Sugar Glider? Read and Share wink

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#775559 - 05/05/09 09:55 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: BeckiT]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Thanks Becki. I'm still waiting to find out how far back the sterility is in that female. I may end up just choosing a WFB with no mosaic just to stay away from having to deal with the whole sterility/possible sterility thing. In the mean time I thought I'd do my research.

Is this correct?: Pairing a mosaic with a WFB mosaic would yield mosaic babies 75% of the time, WFB babies 50% of the time, and normals around 25% of the time.

Misty

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#775583 - 05/05/09 10:34 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
Adri Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 956
Loc: Homestead, FL
Misty, I would save my money and purchase a glider that is from non sterile lines, with the economy the way it is there are deals out there. You just have to wait a little sometimes. I waited to get my Mo and I'm so glad I did!
_________________________
Adri

Mother of 2
Adrian, Sofie
Slave to many glidin' gliders



www.sugarsensation.com

Within the heart of every stray lies the singular desire to be loved.

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#775604 - 05/05/09 10:53 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: Adri]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
I just found out that the male white mosaic is 6 generations from the sterility and he's guaranteed to produce. I am strongly leaning toward NOT picking a WFB female that's from sterile lines though. Adri, I so should have bought your girls! I'm working with Priscilla on my options. She has a few other males I'm considering as well. The white mosaic is very pretty though.

Misty

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#775610 - 05/05/09 10:58 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
Misty, my mosaic-producing pair includes a grey male with mosaic lineage and a female with a tiny white spot on her nose. They produced a beautiful mosaic female a year ago who has lightened in color. They just had two girls, both mosaics/ringtails. Mosaics can be full of surprises.
_________________________
Moira & Matty & my zoo

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#775613 - 05/05/09 10:59 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Misty, who is this sterile line glider from?
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#775631 - 05/05/09 11:20 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: queenduck]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
The white mosaic is from Priscilla & is out of New Kids (which doesn't have a whole lot of lineage) and Antoinette. She has him listed on her site as neutered but he's not neutered yet.

Like I said, we're looking at a few other options, but we really think this white mosaic is pretty and if Priscilla think he's ok to breed then I would trust her opinion. Ahhh decisions, decisions.

Misty

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#775713 - 05/06/09 07:55 AM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
She has always given me good breeding advice, so if she has some breeding contract/that he won't be sterile, then I'd go for it if that is the one you want. You will have to be careful what you breed a sterile glider to, and what you do with the joeys. If you go that route let me know and I'll tell you how I do it.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#775718 - 05/06/09 08:06 AM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: queenduck]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Thanks Alicia,

We're currently debating between these options:
-the white mosaic boy with sterilitly 6 gens back - he has limited lineage on one side that I think I have a question in to Priscilla about
-the cheaper mosaic boy with great lineage - his tail, legs, and patagia are white & he's very pretty
-possibly going a more expensive route & getting a gorgeous white mosaic male that she has - I have a question in to her about the lineage though because it's not super clear. Priscilla said that this boy's lineage is consistently throwing white mosaics & he should pay for himself quickly.

We're leaning toward not getting the female from sterile lines with the white feet.

We're looking at a WFB lion female. Has anyone paired a lion with a mosaic? Do you sometimes get lion-colored mosaic joeys? That might be interesting.

And we're trying to choose another WFB female for the trio. She doesn't have too many females to choose from right now, so our options are limited.

Our other concern is the possibility of having trouble selling the babies in this economy. I'm sure the economy will get better, but are you guys finding that it's getting harder to sell your joeys lately? Especially the pricier ones?

I can see it now....us ending up paying thousands of dollars for these little guys & then winding up with another cage full of non-breeding siblings. It'd sure be a pretty colony, but that's not the goal here....lol. I have to convince the hubby that we will at least make back what we pay for these guys.

Misty

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#775792 - 05/06/09 10:59 AM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Honestly, it is harder to sell right now. So don't count on anything. Just buy the glider you love, looks they way you want it to, that way if it never produces you have want you want. It is the only way to go.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#775812 - 05/06/09 11:31 AM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: queenduck]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Yeah...well obviously if I'm going to spend a large amount of money then I want one that I think is really pretty (and will be a nice pet as well)......but it's still hard to think about spending sooooooo much on a glider hoping he will produce and help pay for himself and then having that not happen. Although, Priscilla did kind of hint that if I were unhappy with what I got for some reason, she could work with me. But still....it's a huge expense.

I'm kind of debating now between the pretty white-tail or the pretty white-mosaic that's outrageously expensive.

I actually can't believe I'm even considering that...lol. Am I insane? I think I must have a really bad case of glideritis.

I'm hoping I could talk her down on the price some more on that white mosaic. I'm already essentially getting a free pair of females though if I do this, so I know it's probably a good deal.

Uggh. Decisions.

Misty

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#775816 - 05/06/09 11:37 AM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Quote:
Am I insane?


If you are just know that you are not alone. LOL
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#775829 - 05/06/09 12:05 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: queenduck]
mommabear82
Unregistered


My husband just gave me the okay to get a mosaic and I am having a hard time grasping the amount of money I am going to spend.

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#775840 - 05/06/09 12:17 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: ]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Crystal, depending on what you want the price ranges for junst under $1000 for a sterile mo male, neuted male, to thousands of $$ for a really white mosaic breedable male. So you have to think about what type of mosaic you want and if you plan on breeding it. Once you know that then you can start looking for your perfect baby.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#775848 - 05/06/09 12:38 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: queenduck]
mommabear82
Unregistered


Yeah, I am putting a lot of thought on this subject. I know that the perfect baby will come it's just a matter of waiting. I have plenty of time and am still in shock that my husband said yes. I don't really like the white mosaics. I like some color. Lol.

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#775858 - 05/06/09 01:02 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: ]
ajvs
Unregistered


Quote:
Yeah...well obviously if I'm going to spend a large amount of money then I want one that I think is really pretty (and will be a nice pet as well)......but it's still hard to think about spending sooooooo much on a glider hoping he will produce and help pay for himself and then having that not happen.


Lots of people spend thousands on animals as pets without expecting them to produce. For example, the first 4 or so generations of hybrid cat males can't produce and people buy them for a lot of money. My first serval I paid $3500 for and had him neutered. As far as gliders are concerned, I assisted a person who took in a glider, had to take it to a vet, well vet bills that cost me over $1500. The love of a glider is worth more than any monetary gain. I'm a little offended you would almost expect the glider to produce so you can "make back what you spent on him." If you have a child, I'm sure that child costs you much more than a glider, and he or she doesn't pay you back anything except love.

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#775880 - 05/06/09 01:36 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: ]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
I'm not here to run a baby factory. I would just be hoping to get a few pretty babies. Not because I don't love my gliders. And I wouldn't love them any less if they never had babies. It's not about monetary gain for me. However, my husband was laid off in November and money is tight. So if we're going to shell out thousands of dollars on something right now, it does have to be at least a little bit of an investment. If I wanted to just get another pet and not have it produce any babies, I would choose a much cheaper glider or get a rescue. That is a personal decision. I know that some people will pay a lot of money for a pet with a certain look or temperament. I understand that. But in all actuality with my current situation, it would be insane for me to plop $5,000 on a colony & not be at least a little disappointed if they didn't produce. My goal as a breeder is to breed responsibly, love my gliders as my pets, stop breeding if it becomes unhealthy for them, and find good homes for my babies. I'm not trying to make a large profit. I am only hoping to break even, so that I don't dig a financial hole for myself. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that or that I should have to defend myself in that. I also almost bought a serval several years ago and was not planning to breed. So I understand the concept of paying for something unique that you can love and enjoy. I'm just saying that with my current situation, and being such a small breeder, I have to be very wise about how I spend my money and which gliders I choose to adopt and breed. As a responsible breeder, I feel it is my duty to do my research & find out what I'm getting into. And that's why I posted this topic. I wanted to find out what the chances are with the different options I have. My goal in this thread is to learn more about the mosaics and also get a realistic grasp on whether or not I should get one as a breeder.

I'm also getting the feeling that many people are having trouble selling their mosaics. As a breeder, it is not my goal to contribute to overpopulation. So that's something I also have to consider.

Anyway, it's a simple fact...at this point in my life, it's not wise for me to get a mosaic that's not going to be breeding. Maybe later down the road I would consider getting a mosaic as a pet only, but currently I can't get one unless I'm hoping for him to breed and help recoup at least some of my funds.

Misty

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#775892 - 05/06/09 01:55 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
If you're going to get a mosaic, get one from non-sterile lines.

I've spoken to my vet about it and she spoke with some other vets about it as well and they all said to NOT breed sterile lines, EVEN if they're producing intact males. Priscilla herself said that even if a male from sterile lines can produce, he and his offspring can still pop up sterile males so that line will NEVER be considered completely non-sterile.

Also, there have been males born without testes. I told my vet about that as well and got an extremely concerned look from her. :\ She said not to breed gliders from sterile lines because you could be breeding other health issues and not know it(til it's too late).

If a dog/cat breeder had an animal that was throwing sterile males they would never continue to breed that line. Should we glider breeders show that same kind of responsibility?

As you're saying about money, if you're going to be spending that much money on a glider to breed, then should you be getting the best glider you can for that amount of money?

As had already been said(on answer to your first question), gliders with only a teensie bit of white can throw almost all white babies, so looks doesn't matter when buying a breeding mosaic. What you need to look at is lineage. I'd recommend looking for a minimally-marked mosaic from non-sterile lines(NOT producing sterile lines, but NON-sterile). I've seen them sold for around $750-$1500.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#775894 - 05/06/09 01:58 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: IowaMisty]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
the thing though with mosaics- you never know what you'll get with the joeys. You can have a beautiful colored mosaic who throws normals all the time. Then there are some who throw mosaics every time- you just never know.You could just get greys and a wf here and there.

With your situation as you say- I think it's best going in with the thought of getting nothing in return for your purchase- because it's only an investment if you get something in return and that's not guaranteed with mosaics.
_________________________
Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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#775896 - 05/06/09 02:01 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: Guerita135]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Priscilla herself said that even if a male from sterile lines can produce, he and his offspring can still pop up sterile males so that line will NEVER be considered completely non-sterile.



Funny a few people keep saying that- but I've not seen or heard Priscilla say that herself or Tyler confirm this is the case.

It would be great to hear that from Priscilla or Tyler confirm this is what Priscilla thinks or has seen happen.
_________________________
Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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#775907 - 05/06/09 02:15 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: jacknsally]
gliderboy4life Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 841
Loc: Houston, Texas
We had suspisions with a glider named Frisco. He was with 3 females and never produced. We tryed him with 2 other females and nothing. He was developed and we jumped to conclusions. Possibly with a single female he would have reproduced. We haven't seen any other circumstances where this has happened. Friscos brothers have been producing. He is now in a pet only home.
_________________________
Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com

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#775908 - 05/06/09 02:16 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: gliderboy4life]
gliderboy4life Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 841
Loc: Houston, Texas
We are also in the process of writing up an article for our websites that will also have a letter from our veterinarian regarding inbreeding/linebreeding/sterile lines.
_________________________
Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com

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#775917 - 05/06/09 02:29 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: jacknsally]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Priscilla herself said that even if a male from sterile lines can produce, he and his offspring can still pop up sterile males so that line will NEVER be considered completely non-sterile.



Funny a few people keep saying that- but I've not seen or heard Priscilla say that herself or Tyler confirm this is the case.

It would be great to hear that from Priscilla or Tyler confirm this is what Priscilla thinks or has seen happen.


A friend of mine had a female from a "producing sterile line" that was sold to her as non-sterile. When the time came for her to sell a mosaic joey from the female, she was told that the baby could still throw sterile joeys. Well, she contacted the breeder she got the female from AND Priscilla Price. Priscilla told her that it's true and that the female's joeys could still be sterile and so could their offspring.

I have the mosaic female that my friend bought and shortly after hearing about males born without testes I neutered her mate and retired them(as well as another pair from sterile lines).

I'm not making it up and it's not hear-say. My friend spoke directly with Priscilla and I will shoot her a link to here so maybe she'll post the info herself so you aren't hearing it second-hand.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#775919 - 05/06/09 02:31 PM Re: Mosaic Question [Re: gliderboy4life]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Thanks everyone for your feedback so far. I hope I didn't sound like I was over-defending myself. I just don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong by doing my research & trying to make the best decision for my current scenario. I'm just trying to pick out a pretty glider to be my pet & who might give me some pretty babies & might somehow work into my ugly budget...lol. And it's so hard not to be in love with that beautiful white mosaic! *drooling*

I do like the idea of getting a cheaper mosaic with just a little bit of white, but Priscilla doesn't really have any cheaper males available with good lineage right now. And I'd like to buy from her if I can because I think I can get a good deal on a trio & I know she's reputable. Also, I still want a really pretty mosaic to keep (without having to keep one of the babies for myself). I did find another that's priced a little lower than the white tailed one I was looking at. I'm going to ask her for his lineage because it's not in the database. He has a pretty tail too.

Tyler, you wouldn't believe the # of questions I've been throwing at poor Priscilla!

Misty

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