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#776229 - 05/07/09 01:21 AM HPW plastic container dangers?
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
ok, let me start off and explain some. I have dart frogs and we only put the parents offspring(tads) in placon 32 oz cups( they are food grade) and do not leech any bad chemicals into the water. As i was making my big batch of HPW tonight I was curious if the plastic container i was using had that same ability to leech chemicals into the gliders diets. Any scientists out there to anser this question? If for instance i put one of my tadpoles from my dart frogs into a regular cup that is not "food grade" (i can look up the exact chemicals i hope on my dart forum) they have shown to possibly contribute to SLS...kind of like HLP but in frogs. SLS is a birth defect though that requires euthanasia. It happens when one or both arms of a tadpole do not form correctly inhibiting the froglet to be able to lift its head and hunt for food. We euthanize due to humane reasons so the frog doesnt suffer. Now are we leeching chemicals from containers we freeze our HPW in at all that can possibly cause any types of issues. i.e. cancers etc. I know when you go to the deli at the store, the FDA controls how food is packaged and in what safe containers they are packaged in. Usually by a compnay called placon. kristy
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#776234 - 05/07/09 01:54 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Interesting. I'm not a scientist, so I can't comment. Are you saying plastic containers marketed as storage for leftovers (freezer and fridge safe) may not be safe (at least, for gliders)? That containers need to be specifically marked as "food grade"?

What containers that are not food grade have been used that contribute to SLS in dart frogs? Any certain brands?
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#776236 - 05/07/09 02:04 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: KattyM]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
sure. say sterilite conatiners for one. plastic shoebox size. i am curious if it affects dart frogs in this way, could it affect our gliders? afterall the food does sit in the freezer for soemtime. It was studied also the more you reused the product, the more chemicals leached. let me think for a minute and do a search on it. kristy
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#776237 - 05/07/09 02:10 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
ok my search is on. Some non food grade plastics are coming up as causing problems with hormones and receptors from leeching chemicals from the plastics. So whats an alternative? glass or make sure it is food grade? Or would it not affect gliders? If it affects darts, frogs are commonly used in research, i would be curious if it could affect our gliders. Now i'm not on a mission to scare anyone but it should be taken into consideration and maybe researched? I dont know. kristy
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#776238 - 05/07/09 02:50 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
some articles:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=plastic-not-fantastic-with-bisphenol-a prepare for a long read lol
and here is one
http://denver.1thingus.com/at-home/do-plastics-leach-chemicals-our-food
pyrex for example does not leach chemicals into food. should we use these products?
also coming to mind i use those plastic bird conatiners for my hpw at night that are plastic, are they safe and maybe switching to the stainless steel is better?
as i know, dishwashings heat can cause plastics to leech more chemicals the next time you use them. just food for thought. opinions? kristy
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#776239 - 05/07/09 02:50 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
mamahunni
Unregistered


im game to help with the research kristy. let me know what it is exactly you need me to help you find. i know that it had been found recently that woemen in particular should not use plastic containers that have been frozen, left in a hot car(waterbottles), or microwaved due to it releasing a toxin that can lead to breast cancer specifically, but also others as well. there is also the chemical that was being put into the plastics of baby bottles. most of them no longer contain it but they did until fairly recently, i was a brand new mom with a 3 month old using plastic bottles cuz i couldnt nurse when this news came out. it scared the bejesus out of me. and now to think the tupperware im freezing my fur babies food in might be doing them harm?? oh no. im on a mission with ya pal if you will accept me. i am a stay at home mom who is addicted to the computer so let me know what we need to get started and i will do as much research as i can!! you can pm me, my windows live info is on my profile and i can give you my email if need be. i want to make sure everyones fur babies are safe!!!
i would never have considered the affect it would have on animals. thank you for realising there could be a problem, and i do wish to help find out more! drop me a line! grin
Alicia

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#776240 - 05/07/09 02:55 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
mamahunni
Unregistered


yes i have heard that using glass and pyrex is better for weomen to heat and store foods in and metal waterbottles in the car. i wonder also about the bird feeders because i do use them also. confused

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#776241 - 05/07/09 03:03 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
alicia thanks. between us and anyone else willing to offer i think we may need to rethink the storage of our HPW. How often are we hearing of glider testicular cancers? Is there a link? Pyrex glass bowls being one good thing we could use instead of this. using stainless steel feeder cups for our gliders as well. Lets find some better options. if we can be affected and frogs can be affected( i have to add that frogs are used for some sole purposes in research as they are so delicate to chemicals to find this stuff out such as chemicals they are exposed to etc. as they breath through their skin ) than why not gliders can be affected??. I have heard the baby bottle scare, its a chemical in one of the articles above, and also the breast cancer etc. So it wouldnt surprise me if in fact the plastic containers we may freeze our hpw ingredients in can affect our gliders in ways we may not see until its too late.Or even our feeder containers such as bowls that are plastic. my email is public. boukrismeyers at msn dot com. kristy:)
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#776244 - 05/07/09 03:05 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
yes i am using the bird feeders that come with the cages off of ebay now for hpw diet feeding. I am using the stainless steel bowls for the mealies etc, but maybe we need to change everything to glass(like my water bottles for them) and stainless steel or glass to store HPW. am i way off here? kristy
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#776249 - 05/07/09 03:14 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
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#776251 - 05/07/09 03:18 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
mamahunni
Unregistered


hmmm...ya the waterbottles too... i dont know if we need to necissarily need to change those, they arent in extreme heat or cold, so they shouldnt release toxins, food bowls, yes. i wash mine with VERY hot water. im thinking im going to be doing a shopping spree at petsmart on payday...in fact i think i may get glass water bottles as well. why risk it? how can we set up a group? we should find other members who want to join this cause and take it from there. i have no problem making us a facebook acct and stuff to get the awareness out there. i want to make sure the word is spread and they stay safe!! hugs
alicia

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#776253 - 05/07/09 03:22 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
mamahunni
Unregistered


that is a great link. that info should be shared with others. let me know what you wanna do hun. im off to bed (again). be back in a few hours. smile

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#776254 - 05/07/09 03:24 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
mamahunni
Unregistered


oh, btw, i dont use HPW, but BML, but it is still frozen in either ice cube trays or tupperware. regsrdless of the diet, i think that suggie parents are gonna need to really start checing what they are using for storage.

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#776255 - 05/07/09 03:24 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
i got my glass wate bottles for my suggies from exotic nutrition though i'm sure they sell them at petsmart. Water bottles for our gliders do need to be washed in hot water as they can get a build-up of bacteria which wouldnt be good for gliders. kristy
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#776256 - 05/07/09 03:26 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
tupperware has shown leeching of chemicals. it can be googled but i think the last link i linked to in this thread stated that tupperware was a concern. kristy
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#776257 - 05/07/09 03:29 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
mamahunni
Unregistered


exactly. so i have a nice pyrex bowl im going to be using from now on!!

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#776259 - 05/07/09 03:36 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
good choice IMO kristy
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#776262 - 05/07/09 04:49 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
Their_mommy Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 11/07/06
Posts: 767
Loc: Canton Tx
Thanks for this thread, I freeze my mix in Tupperware also, but I only use glass for feeding all foods and mealies, and also for water.
I do not depend on any water bottles for water, each night they get a new glass dish,(all found at goodwill) for their food and water.
The go through the dishwasher each day so they are super clean.
But I think until this Tupperware thing is cleared up, I will quit using it for freezing.
You can find many desert cups and such at goodwill for less then 30 cents so check there for great feeders.
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#776368 - 05/07/09 09:58 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: Their_mommy]
Wiggly
Unregistered


They make aluminium ice cube trays. They're hard to find, but can be found. They also make those silicon ones. I also found this stainless steel one.

Perhaps people would be interested in the stainless steel containers found here?

I did a MASSIVE search for dangers of freezing and storing in stainless steel yesterday. All that came up was that very high sodium things can cause the steel to become pitted and that very large pots may not cool down fast enough to stop bacterial growth and/or may not have a tight fitting cover.

Please note that I don't work for any group that deals in stainless steel anything, but my own research has shown that it *should* be one of the less reactive food storage containers and it's less likely to break than glass. I was actually reading up on plastics and stuff yesterday, but never even THOUGHT of how plastics might affect gliders!

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#776382 - 05/07/09 10:30 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
mamahunni
Unregistered


great idea their_mommy. thanks for taking the time to read the post and do what you can to help your suggie babies! we will keep you updated on the info!

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#776470 - 05/07/09 01:50 PM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
the thought only donned on me because i breed posion dart frogs, i had not, i would had never thought it might be something we should think about. I would think if it did affect gliders it would be something long-term and a slowly progressing bad outcome. kristy
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#776523 - 05/07/09 03:36 PM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: kristy55303
tupperware has shown leeching of chemicals. it can be googled but i think the last link i linked to in this thread stated that tupperware was a concern. kristy


If you read the article linked, you will see that most Tupperware is safe (as are most plastic products on the market). There are a couple of lines that may cause some problems with repeated use, but that doesn't mean you have to scrap the whole company.

Amphibians are much more susceptible to things, especially juvenile amphibians, than many other animals.

If you will notice, most of the websites pushing the idea (of dioxin being in plastic) are 'green' sites. While I agree that we should all try to be more green, they are basically using a scare tactic to push people off of plastics because most of them aren't good for the environment (they do not break down quickly in land fills, etc.)

Non microwave safe plastics should not be used in the microwave (obviously), and single use plastics should not be repeatedly re-used (that's why they call them single use). While it would be better for all of us to use plastics (particularly disposable) less often, just make sure you know what you are using and what may or may not be safe. As a side note, a lot of the metal water bottles touted as reusable and 'safe' have an epoxy coating on the inside that can release BPA as well.

The government and scientific community does not support the idea of dioxin (cancer causing) in most plastics. BPA can potentially cause problems when heated not when frozen, but it is primarily found in non microwave safe plastics.

http://www.jhsph.edu/dioxins
http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/articles/2008/goldman_schwab_bpa.html
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dioxins/AN01276
http://www.cdc.gov/hoaxes_rumors.html
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Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#776536 - 05/07/09 03:52 PM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: sugarlope]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
yep noticed they were green. trying to locate the scientific article posted on a frog forum that did go into detail and wasnt so green;) thats what i could find by googling. When we wash these conatiners, aren't we heating and reusing them? If its not a concern all the better:) kristy
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#776544 - 05/07/09 04:03 PM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: snowbabygliders]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
There are containers that are made to be reused and safe to be reused (granted there are some exceptions to all reusables being safe). There are containers that are made to be single use (like most bottled water containers). But even in these cases when they should not be reused, freezing is not a concern, the heating is. And it is not cancer causing concerns (dioxin) it is the BPA - with which the most concern comes with an unborn child (also why the froglets would be affected, as an animal, human is developing in it's earliest stages, they are MUCH more susceptible).
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Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#776590 - 05/07/09 04:59 PM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: sugarlope]
blockamon Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 563
Loc: Lynchburg, VA
Personally, I would not worry about normal plastic food containers at low temperatures. Maybe if you added food hot enough to the container, you might get something off. However, polyethylene and polypropylene are pretty good at not leaching nasties.

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#776657 - 05/07/09 06:42 PM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: blockamon]
mamahunni
Unregistered


i think once the research is done, and we have more info, the subject will be clearer. but for now, just as a precaution though i am going to start using glass and pyrex for freezing. im not saying everyone has to do it, but i am trying to help do some research into this problem. and i do know like i stated above that it has been scientifically proven to be a cause of breast and other cancers in weomen. i will try to find that link as well. i know they are safe if used as a one time thing, but i know the article said we should not use plastic containers to re heat or cook our foods in and definately do not drink water from a water bottle that has been left in a hot car. i will try to find it and post it here for all to look at. til then...
alicia

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#776660 - 05/07/09 06:54 PM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
mamahunni
Unregistered


Ok, so i have found out that the info i got on the cancer thing is untrue--
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cookplastic.asp

also johns hopkins university has said there is no cause for concern. i am going back to my tupperware.
this link is to Snopes.com who busts urban legends wide open, and they are very trustworthy and do their research. so guys, it looks like we are ok. no more need for worry.

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#776933 - 05/08/09 11:50 AM Re: HPW plastic container dangers? [Re: ]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
I have been using silicone muffin cups to freeze a portion for each cage. They peel off very easily then I put the portions in a zip lock bag. There are small cups also if you are only feeding 1 or 2 gliders.
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