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#781161 - 05/19/09 09:08 AM Sun Coast vs. PPP
Richard Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 7
Loc: MI
I'm relatively new here so forgive me if I sound ignorant. I'm trying to get a Sugar Glider and I haven't been able to find a decent breeder I trust. I def will avoid (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. It seems that Sun Coast gets off kind of easy on these forums, not being regarded as a mill.

From what I've seen there is definitely a drastic difference between how (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets presents it's info vs SC, but, in the end they both seem to be selling alot of animals.

The biggest dif I have seen is the diet, and from what I can tell I side with SC on this. However, they are willing to ship babies, which makes me think they are very eager to sell them.

Again, I do not mean to attack SC, they may be a very reputable company. But I'm just trying to understand how they are getting off scott free.

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#781164 - 05/19/09 09:14 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Richard]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Richard
I'm relatively new here so forgive me if I sound ignorant. I'm trying to get a Sugar Glider and I haven't been able to find a decent breeder I trust. I def will avoid (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. It seems that Sun Coast gets off kind of easy on these forums, not being regarded as a mill.

From what I've seen there is definitely a drastic difference between how (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets presents it's info vs SC, but, in the end they both seem to be selling alot of animals.

The biggest dif I have seen is the diet, and from what I can tell I side with SC on this. However, they are willing to ship babies, which makes me think they are very eager to sell them.

Again, I do not mean to attack SC, they may be a very reputable company. But I'm just trying to understand how they are getting off scott free.


(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets definitely needs to be avoided. They are absolutely NO good. I have had multiple dealings with Lisa from Suncoast but I have never bought a Sugar Glider from her. There are different opinions on Suncoast. They raise a couple of flags with breeders such as not being able to see their breeding facilities. But you will have to come up with your own opinion.

Now, in relation to shipping, just about every breeder ships. There are very few who do not ship. So, don't let shipping stop you from considering a breeder.

Hope this helps.

Paula
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#781165 - 05/19/09 09:16 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Richard]
Beezer
Unregistered


Sun Coast is a reputable USDA Certified breeder - there (to my knowledge) has never been any thing detrimental said about them - Gliders can be shipped - it's just that some breeders don't like to - S.C. probably doesn't ship in the summer months - I've never asked but if you get in touch with them they could tell you -

I know there will be a lot of members coming on to answer your question and they will be able to tell you about S.C.'s good reputation

Sue
owned by &
mom to

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#781167 - 05/19/09 09:17 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Richard]
gliderma Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5402
Loc: Michigan
I cannot speak for either one as I have never dealt with them, but I do know that those who have dealt with SunCoast are much happier than those who have dealt with (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. I am also from Michigan and have lots of helpful information on my website which is migliders.com. We just had a great glider gathering this past Saturday, sorry you missed it! I can also put you in touch with reputable breeders from GC that I have dealt with. Email me gliderma@aol.com if you'd like. I'll send you the info packet from the gathering!
_________________________
Lynn Martel
616-272-4374
989-400-5686

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#781172 - 05/19/09 09:25 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: gliderma]
buttercup
Unregistered


I've never bought a glider from suncoast either, but have ordered supplies, and they always did right by me.

And yes, there are breeders who ship gliders. I'm getting a female next month and she's going to be shipped to me. Look around GC, and if you have any questions for those that breed and sell, they will answer any questions you have about shipping.

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#781179 - 05/19/09 09:51 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ]
shar0na
Unregistered


I have never dealt with either of them, but one thing I would like to mention is the number of posts I see about unhealthy babies coming from Perfect Pocket Pets that I'm not seeing about SunCoast.
I've seen differences in opinion between some people here and SunCoast, but it doesn't ever seem to be over something that is obviously dangerous.. for example, Perfect Pocket Pets saying to put a heat rock in the glider cage frown

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#781186 - 05/19/09 10:04 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ]
happygypsymoth Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 409
Loc: Navarre, Florida
I have had dealings with Suncoast, and know first hand of a few others. Their Suggies are clean, well fed, and handled daily. They never sell their babies too young. They have a special deal with one of the Airlines - they are shipped in a particular place in the air plane, they have a special travel box, they only ship on a straight through flight where someone will pick them up immediately the same day, and are only sent on flights during the part of the day the babies will be sleeping. They are very strict about who breeds with who, no inbreeding, and how many joeys a female will have. Also, they are always willing to help a Suggie owner whether you have bought from them or not.
_________________________
Our pack of 14:
2 Humans,5 Chihuahuas,7 Suggies(the Suggies definately rule!)
RIP Grace 12/12/12 Harmony 1/17/13 Turbo & Everest 2014
Forever Gliding High, together!

Save a Kid! Close the Lid!
And Check your Pouches Daily!

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#781222 - 05/19/09 11:20 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: happygypsymoth]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I've had 2 gliders flown to me. Both came in perfect. Abraham who came in last December got to ride First Class because the stewardesses thought he was the cutest creature (they didn't know what he was, lol) they had ever seen. They hand carried him to me into the airport! He was in awe of all the ladies staring at him. LOL

Lisa at Suncoast is a very nice lady. I have ordered cages and many other things from her in the past.

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is a mill breeder, they sell joeys TOO young, sickly and give out wrong info on their care. MANY of (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets's gliders die due to this. They do not care who they sell to and go to flea markets all over to sell tiny joeys that have no business being away from their parents. They also neuter tiny joeys with a pocket knife and usually want to meet you in a hotel room to sell to you. They are only nice if you cash in hand to buy one of their gliders that shouldn't even be sold. frown
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#781247 - 05/19/09 12:30 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: SugarBlossoms]
Janie Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 605
Loc: MS
I have bought from Lisa at suncoast. Xena, my precious little white tip glider is from her. Xena was clearly handled and although she cried and lunged when I first opened her bag, she was just scared and she calmed down within 24 hours to the point that I could pick her up and handle her like I had her for months!

She also came via northwest airlines into Memphis TN. We had no issues with them either, She was keep in climate control the whole time.
_________________________
slave to 9 cages of adorable suggies
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo: :leu: :wt:
http://www.suggierealm.com

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#781269 - 05/19/09 01:25 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Janie]
maakea2007
Unregistered


Personally we first called Suncoast when we were first looking for a glider. When we called her she wanted the money upfront, and then she said in 4 weeks we could come pick the glider up. I thought this was odd that we could not see the facility or even pick the glider of our choice. So with that being said we went and called other breeders. We have had three gliders shipped to us, and we did what was recommended, we put them in their cage and left them alone for about a week. I think that helped because now they are perfect little angels, and now we are breeding and they are awesome mommies. So I do not know if Suncoast is equivalent to (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, but they do offer better information on their site. Again, this is in my opinion. I would definitely not be scared to get a glider shipped as long as the breeder knows the procedures.

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#781305 - 05/19/09 03:46 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
My first four gliders were from Suncoast. I cannot comment on shipping as I live within driving distance and was able to pick up my gliders. Lisa is extremely helpful and was able to tell me a little about each baby's temperament before she handed them to me the first time. My first two, Sassy and Corky were easily handled within a few days. My second two, Mehitabel and Missy were bought two months later. I had asked for white faced babies and they were the only two she had at the time. Missy was a very calm sweet glider by nature. Lisa and I talked at length about Mehitabel, who Lisa said was the crabbiest baby she had ever had. She made a number of suggestions on ways to continue to help her calm down - Lisa had already been giving her more time being carried in a bonding pouch that most joeys receive. She knows each of the joeys and does not just pull them out of a cage full of babies like (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets.

I asked her why she does not invite new owners to see her breeding facility and she said that her past experience with people visiting had resulted in some of the joeys being pulled or rejected and she does not want the gliders stressed by unusual activity around their cages when they are normally very quiet.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#781336 - 05/19/09 05:17 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: CandyOtte]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Does anyone know why SunCoast would have a dealers license instead of a breeders license? Normally if you sell the gliders that you breed yourself, you have a breeders license and if you sell gliders that were bred by others, as Perfect Pocket Pets does, you have a dealers license.
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook




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#781364 - 05/19/09 06:49 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy]
theresaw Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 310
Loc: United States
My glider "Bug" is from Lisa at Suncoast and she is extemely well behaved. Lisa has always been very helpful and answered any questions. Theresa

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#781437 - 05/19/09 09:47 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: theresaw]
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 3753
Loc: Florida
I have no idea what kind of license they have at SC I do knwo that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets has a class B broker's license and aquires their gliders from locations known to be glider mills.

I go tmy glider from a reputable breeder who ships- I did not have to get my glider shipped, however. I would suggest, if you are interested in getting a glider, that you contact reputable breeders. You can find lots of them here on GC and a list of some I would personally recommend here: http://www.spin4suggies.com/Sugar_Glider_Links.html
_________________________
Julie
Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
The Zoo: Midnight, Severe & Nala - Claude, Pixie, Tippy & Chili - Scout & Soluna, Theo & Deegie

http://hammockhavenpetsplus.com



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#781462 - 05/19/09 10:41 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: LabNGliderMom]
josefine Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2713
Loc: Perry, Iowa
i thought i had already posted on this subject,but i evidently didn't finish it,the computer has been going nuts for a big part of the day.
i have never bought a glider from lisa, but,for what i know of her,i know i would if i could. she is extremely caring & helpful,even to those who haven't bought from her.
her newsletters are always full of good news,sometimes laughter &/or tears,along w/info that is very important to us glider parents. we haven't bought a glider from her, but yet she lets us belong to her group of people who get her newsletters. that says alot about her. that's it,i guess!!!
talk @ ya L8R
josefine
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#781469 - 05/19/09 10:58 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: josefine]
irie888 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 251
Loc: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
I have never gotten a glider from Lisa, but I do get supplies from her and they are good quality and arrive quickly. I had bought a cage from them a few years back and it is starting to rust (gotta love the FL weather even inside it is not safe!). It is a good quality cage and I have been happy with it. Although the manufacture and Suncoast don't make any guarantees on the long term life of the product, I contacted Lisa who said she would look and see if she had the parts to the cage that I needed to replace to give to me since I live locally.

I think that is really nice and goes above and beyond what others would do. She is also always available to give advice. She answers my phone calls and e-mails in a 24 hour period.

That's more than you get from a lot of people.
_________________________
Erin (Mom to)


:grey: Pixie, Bell, Otto, :leu: Helo, & :wfb: Skids, Kizmet :rtmo: Uqi

1 Crazy Dogs
Weim - Irie


:rbridge: Aspen at 20 years old was still too soon to leave me, Keto, Zucgar & Echo

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#781483 - 05/19/09 11:19 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: irie888]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I have always said sun coast was a mill but I say Priscilla is as well. The differences is they have large NUMBERS but the gliders are better cared for. For me it is about the number of joeys being produced with the first 2 but they are NOT a perfect pocket pet when it comes to husbandry and care. If you have to pick go with, what some refer to as, a large scale breeder rather than a mill (like (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets).
_________________________
cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx

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#781550 - 05/20/09 07:40 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: cyndiekb]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
I think the OP wanted to know why Perfect Pocket Pets is considered a mill while Suncoast is not. To me having a large number of breeders does not make you a mill. It is how the breeders are cared for that makes you a mill. We have all seen pictures of Pricillaís operation. And many have gone to her facility and met those who she hires to help her care for the animals.

I think the license says a lot about where the gliders that Suncoast sells come from. Perfect Pocket Pets has a class B license because they donít breed the gliders that they sell. And Suncoast has the same class B license.

This is not about if Lisa is a nice person. I can assure that Lisa is a delightful person. Iíve met her. But Iíve heard that the Klunders are nice people also. I havenít met them. It is rumored that Suncoast gets their gliders from a mill in Texas and then works with them to calm them down a little before selling them. If that is true, what makes Suncoast different from Perfect Pocket Pets?

I wonder, has anyone ever bought a retired breeder from Suncoast? Theyíve been around for about 5 years so what happens to the retired breeders if they are truly breeding their own gliders? And do any of you breed the gliders that you got from SunCoast? Did you get any type of lineage with your glider?


Quote:
I asked her why she does not invite new owners to see her breeding facility and she said that her past experience with people visiting had resulted in some of the joeys being pulled or rejected and she does not want the gliders stressed by unusual activity around their cages when they are normally very quiet.


Well now that is just too convenient, isnít it? I guess all those other breeders who keep their operations open are just doing it wrong. I hope that I am wrong about SunCoast. I really do because I like Lisa. But until they prove me wrong, I would say never purchase a glider from someone who wonít let you see how the parents are handled. There are many good breeders who do keep things out in the open for all to see.
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook




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#781788 - 05/20/09 06:35 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy]
irie888 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 251
Loc: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
I stopped by and picked up the parts to the cage that I needed from Lisa at Suncoast Sugar Gliders today. She gave me what I needed for free and was just happy to help. I e-mailed a link to the forum to her because I figured, who better to asked than her about some of the questions that were being posted here. So, I did.

She was very willing (and not defensive at all) to talk about why they don't let people into their facility. She has been told by her vets not to do so and says that she has even made her mom stay outside and look through the window if she was worried that someone was ill.

She mentioned that she has very little help from the outside, but if she does have someone new come in she tends to see an increased need to hand rear her babies and more incidents of cannibalism. She says that her gliders have been easily stressed if there is a lot of change in activity because they try to keep the environment as peaceful as possible. She also says that they have the ability and demand to get more gliders, but she would rather breed quality then quantity. She said that she is sorry if people are not happy with the fact that she doesn't open her doors to everyone, but her concern is the welfare of the animals.

She also mentions that she keeps a lot of her retired breeders as pets and re-homes some of them to good homes. Here is what she replied to me about getting gliders from other people and selling them in response to the link I sent her. Just thought you would like to hear it from her. I am not shy so pretty much just decided to ask. She was very complimentary of many small scale (family) breeders.


"We've always bred our own gliders, but I will buy healthy, well handled babies from a handful of local customers, hence the need to have the Class B license. We even did a newsletter article on this in the past as many small breeders need help finding and screening good homes. Basically if the logistics work out, and we don't have the expense of flying the gliders in, we will work with other breeders. Isn't that a good thing? breeders helping breeders? If this bothers anyone in the glider community, I wonder why no one has ever bothered to ask me? Feel free to post this info if you like.

Viva La Glider!

Lisa
Suncoast Sugar Gliders
727-343-8577
www.sugar-gliders.com"

So, I hope this helps answer any questions. I figured it is easier to ask than to try to figure it out and guess wrong. She was very open and happy to answer any questions that I had. I hope that this at least encourages anyone to ask her questions if you have them.

In the meantime, I'm gonna keep enjoying my cage thanks to her. YEA!
_________________________
Erin (Mom to)


:grey: Pixie, Bell, Otto, :leu: Helo, & :wfb: Skids, Kizmet :rtmo: Uqi

1 Crazy Dogs
Weim - Irie


:rbridge: Aspen at 20 years old was still too soon to leave me, Keto, Zucgar & Echo

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#781911 - 05/20/09 11:29 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: irie888]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Well then, I guess that explains a lot, doesn't it.

BTW, since Lisa was being so open and you were being so forward as to ask, I wonder if you happened to ask if you could take a peak through the same window that Lisa's Mom looked through. Because if you did happen to take a peak, you would be the only person that I've ever heard of that did peak. And that would end a lot of speculation.

Lisa has a degree in business, so she should understand the importance of everyone knowing absolutely and for sure that these joeys are not coming from the mills.

So on one hand there are many breeders who have gliders that are so socialized that anyone can reach into the pouch without the gliders crabbing. On the other hand we have Sun Coast who never allows anyone to see the gliders because it might upset them. Somehow that doesn't make since to me.

I still say that you should never purchase an animal, any animal, unless know how the parents are handled; even if the breeder was nice enough to give you free stuff.
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook




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#781934 - 05/21/09 01:37 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
One has to look at the information that is being given from both breeders. Look at the info that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets provides and compare it to the info that Suncoast provides. then ask yourself these questions:
Who gives the better advice on glider care?
who is willing to help you if you need advice on your gliders?
will they help even if you didnt purchase from them?
do they "screen" potential buyers? and if so...how?
I cant blame someone for not wanting people to check out their breeding areas. I dont let any people even touch my gliders. who knows where they (the people) have been.
_________________________
:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!

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#782029 - 05/21/09 09:52 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: JillMarie]
sil
Unregistered


Just because you have a class "B" license doesn't mean to much. When my sister and I got licensed our inspector insisted that we each do a class "B" just in case we had to sell each others joeys (which we never did). We've never taken in joeys to resell either... I have taken in rescues and did ask a small fee for them, but that is covered in the class "B".

I just wanted to let people know that just because you have a "B" USDA license doesn't mean you are a mill who always resells others peoples joeys.

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#782049 - 05/21/09 10:31 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ]
AmyLynn
Unregistered


It would send a red flag up if a breeder did not want you to see their breeders and what conditions that they are kept in. They do not have to let other people touch their gliders. But they should be able to see the joeys parents and such. I have never had a breeder tell me that I could not see the parents or the environment that they were kept in.

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#782242 - 05/21/09 04:57 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ]
irie888 Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 251
Loc: Indian Rocks Beach, FL
I am just passing on information that I received yesterday. I did not see the facility and cannot speak to it.
_________________________
Erin (Mom to)


:grey: Pixie, Bell, Otto, :leu: Helo, & :wfb: Skids, Kizmet :rtmo: Uqi

1 Crazy Dogs
Weim - Irie


:rbridge: Aspen at 20 years old was still too soon to leave me, Keto, Zucgar & Echo

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#782245 - 05/21/09 05:15 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: irie888]
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 1035
Loc: Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
One has to look at the information that is being given from both breeders. Look at the info that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets provides and compare it to the info that Suncoast provides. then ask yourself these questions:
Who gives the better advice on glider care?
who is willing to help you if you need advice on your gliders?
will they help even if you didnt purchase from them?
do they "screen" potential buyers? and if so...how?
I cant blame someone for not wanting people to check out their breeding areas. I dont let any people even touch my gliders. who knows where they (the people) have been.


Are you meaning for the original poster to ask themselves these questions in order to determine whether or not they want to purchase from Suncoast or in order to determine whether or not Suncoast is a mill?
_________________________
~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236

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#782461 - 05/21/09 11:15 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: DeeDancer]
konotashi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 4061
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I've never had any personal experience with either of them, but I HAVE been in the Perfect Pocket Pet family circle, and let me tell you - I've never seen anything so despicable on the internet.

Suncoast seems pretty reasonable. The cages they sell are good sized, the food they sell is fairly decent, they have accurate info on their site....

As far as shipping them, many breeders ship, but some do not. One of my gliders was shipped in from TN to AZ.
Shipping is more of a personal decision, as well as whether the prospective owner wants to pay the extra approximate $200, but it's totally safe if it's done correctly and done with a decent airline.
_________________________
~Marissa~

How-to Critter Creations

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#782501 - 05/22/09 02:25 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: konotashi]
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/01/99
Posts: 5333
Loc: Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Richard your question was what was the difference between SC and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets.. Perfect Pocket Pets is a dealer, they sell gliders that other people breed, they have a contract with that breeder. now since Virgil is a business man, he knows exactly what he is doing cause he is making a small fortune doing it. now why he is considered a mill breeder is beyond me, cause he doesn't breed them, is he a dealer that sells sick and underage joeys? yes, but he doesn't breed them.
And it is much easier to blame the dealers, and try to shut them down ruin their business than it is to find the breeder and do what is right. That would be educating the breeder and getting them to clean up their act.

But then again we have hundreds of pet shops all over the country that does the same thing, we have thousands upon thousands of private owners that do as well, we also have thousands and thousands of owners that breed their gliders regardless of where they get them, with or without linages, actually the number of breeders that do linages are actually very few. Less than 25 I think.. definitely less than 50

SC is a large breeding facility, they also have regular vet visits, they also have been around the online community for many years.

but as I was stating above there are also many many more large scale breeders, that are not "internet community" known.

I think there are some people under the misconception that the online glider community is like the major population, when in fact if we were sand, we would make up a mere cupful in the Sahara Desert of reality. There are thousands of gliders out there. There are hundreds of breeders, and the standards that the online community has created is not a national norm.

The Usda has set the standards for glider care and housing, until those are changed there is no changing for those not associated with the online people.

I am one of the few, a mere again 25-50 people online that has had gliders more than a decade. and the strides that have been made regarding glider care and standards have dramatically increased from what was one the norm, but those changes came about through education, not through persecution, or alienation, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets has proven that each week, they don't need the online community to make money, nor do they need it's approval or it's support.

I will say one thing about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and that is what I have seen from them, I rarely see out of the small breeders, mill breeders and very very few of the mega breeders. and that is education, although we may not agree with the education they provided, they still make an attempt at it.

They send an email every day for the first 30 days, They try to educate people regarding diets. (like who all agrees on that?) bonding techniques( again who can all agree on that)Biting issues (again who agrees on that)
They have a way for the new owners to contact them, if only through the website, it is still open communication.
That helps the new owners with any questions they may have,

The sick gliders is an issue that needs to be dealt with at the breeder level, as well as the underage joeys, the online community used to be about education, and that is where it needs to return to,

Some people that have bought from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and stumbled into the garbage, many of them are reluctant to really voice their opinions regarding their gliders especially if they didn't get a sick one or underage one for fear of being slammed for defending them.

lets not be so quick to judge, classify and categorize people, groups and places and concentrate more on getting the good info out to the masses, eventually that info may and will become the standard. Just as (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is educating their customers, their standard may become the norm far sooner than the online communities, since the online community is far more interested in alienation rather than education.

But also keep in mind, that even the most passionate group of people can not and will not agree on a standard that is better than what is, some people will only accept what the average can not attain.

always ask yourself.. based on whose standards..
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#782602 - 05/22/09 10:48 AM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Bourbon]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I agree 10000000% with Bourbon. My question now is off_topic when I tried to say something positive about a "mill breeder" who has actually gone out of his way to help me do diet research as well as some other issues, and I made the mistake of saying he cant be all bad...why was I slammed so hard that I took a MONTH off from visiting here? Everyone taking care of gliders has something to offer in the way of education (even if it shows what NOT to do). everyone deserves a chance at redemption.
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#782657 - 05/22/09 01:41 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: JillMarie]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Richardís question was why is Perfect Pocket Pets considered a mill while Sun Coast is not. So lets do a little comparison.

Both Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast sell large volumes of gliders.

Both Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast are excellent business people with great marketing strategies.

Both Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast sell gliders from undocumented sources.

Both Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast have newsletters with their own versions of education, diet, bonding techniques, hints and tips. BTW both of these newsletters also serve as advertizing tools.

Perfect Pocket Pets uses a cartoon glider as a mascot while Sun Coast uses Arnold the talking glider.

Perfect Pocket Pets will sell to anyone who has the money, while Sun Coast seems to do some screening. However there seems to be no knowledge of Suncoast ever turning a potential owner down.

Neither Perfect Pocket Pets nor Sun Coast has a long term return policy.

Neither Perfect Pocket Pets nor Sun Coast has a plan in place to help prevent over population.

Both Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast have formulated and market their own diet.

Both Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast promote themselves as experts. However neither has any type of animal related degree. Their expertise seems to be more in the nature of business. BTW, Iíve heard that both the Klunders and Lisa have personal gliders.

Sun Coastís customer service is hands down the winner over Perfect Pocket Pets since they will help anyone.

Both Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast prefer to sell gliders in pairs but both will sell singles under certain conditions.

You can walk into PetSmart, PetCo, or any of the chains where everything looks right and everything smells right, and the animals look so sweet and so cute, but those of us who have been around for a while know that those animals were born into horrendous conditions. Places where bare minimum food, razor blade and Clorox neuters, forced breedings, injured animals are tossed into the garbage are the norm. If you donít believe it, do some research.

Again, please donít purchase an animal unless you know how the parents are cared for. Even if the company you are buying from seems to be completely above board.
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#782660 - 05/22/09 02:05 PM Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy]
mrachael
Unregistered


Bourbon - I bought my glider from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets a few months ago, and am so thankful for your post above. I'm actually afraid to even mention that's where I got her, on this site, for fear of being bashed. She's healthy and all is going great. I appreciate the time you took to write that long post, so that people will remember that we are all here for support and education, not to be bashed or made fearful of asking questions.

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