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FuzzyWonderland, Kitkatt1216
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#78623 - 01/19/06 07:52 PM 10 days OOP, have you had survivors?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have a baby about 10 days out of pouch. I Noticed from Day one that something was wrong with this one. He was too tiny. This is my females 6th set of joeys, this is the first time she has only had 1 instead of twins. Well after about 5 days i noticed a touch of what looked like blood in my females pouch. She seems perfectly healthy but i suspect she is not producing milk any longer. On top of that see seems negligent of her new boy leaving him cold and alone for hours, he is icy cold when i get him out of the pouch. 4 days ago I pulled him and started supplementing with KMR (its all i had and baby needed food NOW) and gave .5cc of fluids subQ. I am a nurse at a vet hospital so i have supplies, then switched to puppy milk and have made BML for glider joeys and have mixed 50% with puppy milk and added pedialyte to the formula, every night i Give fluids sub Q and put him on a heating pad feeding him when he cries, and during the day i leave him with mom. Though he dosent seem to be getting fed during the day, and gets very dehydrated by evening. I want to know what else do i do? He takes about a half cc when he is hungry and eats readly and easily. I have read everything on this site regarding this problem, my main thought is has anyone actually succeded on these formulas from 10 days old to weaning without much of moms help or none? He looks terrible to me, but is hanging in there. His little eyes are open... but he just seems to tiny, malnurished, and pathetic. I can see the little bones in his tail and hip. I should have supplemented sooner, but my mom and dad have always been so good. I mean really attentive and perfect parents.... I just though she knew better than me. And maybe she does, but i cant stand by and let nature take its course and this joey... i have to try.
By the time i order wombaroo it will be a week from now, so this is what i have to work with now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#78624 - 01/19/06 08:13 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Hang in there… and Hi and Welcome… I have not dealt with Joeys…but may of or members have ….the are probably posting as I type this..or will be along soon…
_________________________
* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#78625 - 01/19/06 08:27 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


HI. I have raised a joey from 7 days OOP, with a bite wound to her face.
If you will go to my web page on rejected joeys..you can read how I did it and also things from other people who have raised rejected joeys also.
http://sugarglidersandmore.com/rejected.html

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#78626 - 01/19/06 08:30 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Hi, First welcome to GC, I'm sorry it is under these circumstances but we'll sure try to help.

It sounds like mom is not able to feed him at all. I would suggest a vet visit for her to make sure she is ok. She could have a pouch infection that is preventing her from producing milk.
Joeys this age need to be fed every 2-3 hours around the clock. It sounds like he isn't getting any food all day long. If he is fed and then offered water to drink, every 2-3 hours, he should improve and you shouldn't have to do the sub-q any longer.

If mom and dad are not hurting the joey, it is your call if you choose to leave him with them however there is a high risk of them canabalizing the joey.

If it were me...I would pull the joey and keep him in a joey nursery. Feed every 2-3 hours round the clock. Don't forget to stimulate him to go potty after as he still needs help with that.

There are some good sites with info. I'll go find them and be back to post some links for you. Hang in there.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#78627 - 01/19/06 08:31 PM Re: 10 days OOP, have you had survivors? [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Continue supplementing, but you will have to do this every couple hours...including during the day.

There have been many members that have succeeded in raising joeys by themselves without the help of mom or dad. You sound like you know what you are doing as far as supplementing.

You can keep the baby with you in your bra during the day and that should keep baby warm enough.

I have never had to deal with supplementing a joey but I hope others will be along soon.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#78628 - 01/19/06 08:34 PM Re: 10 days OOP, have you had survivors? [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]You are doing very well with this little one... I would recommend that you totally separate him from his parents at this point... Why? Because there is a strong likelihood that since she is not taking care of him at all, she will try to eliminate him. Please check out my webpage on Hand Raising A Joey to see how to make an incubator and how frequent the feedings need to be, etc...
I have successfully hand-raised 5 different joeys... They all looked pathetic, but survived and are thriving adults... Don't give up hope for this little one... You are doing great!!!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
If you need to call me & ask questions, feel free: my number is 440-953-0904 or toll-free 866-399-4476... I just ask that you call before 9 p.m. ET unless it's an emergency since my husband has to get up at 4:30 a.m...
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#78629 - 01/19/06 08:34 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Ok, HERE is a site that has great info on hand raising joeys. Please go take a look at that and if you have any questions, Please come back and ask. We'll be here and I'll try to keep an eye on this thread. Good luck, prayers for this little one.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#78630 - 01/19/06 08:36 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Thanks Suz! I was off looking for a link for your site!
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#78631 - 01/19/06 08:39 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
Thanks everyone… <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> this is what makes GC Great… <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

keep it up!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!

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#78632 - 01/19/06 09:06 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


mom still cleans him, but leaves him alone for too long so, as long as see seems to want to lick him clean and do all him "eliminations" for him id like to let them be together, but just a few hours each day now. I cant keep him in my bra cause he gets too cold! I guess im just not warm enough even right against my skin...I think my skin temp is too cool. I have him on a heating pad.
I have bottle fed several litters of kittens from day one, so im okay with the around the clock thing. Marsupials are just new to me, especially when talking about bottle feeding nutrition to something that exotic so i worry about a balanced diet.

Thanks for the support everyone! Ill look at all those links. I really hope i dont have to do this again, and ill give you guys an update and let you know how he comes along. I guess im just really worried about him. They are just so TINY. That and i wonder if mom rejected him cause she isnt making milk, or there is something wrong with him and she knows better... He really looks diffrent than any other baby she has had, the colors are off and his head seems too big.

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#78633 - 01/19/06 09:45 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
Becareful. Heating pads are dangerous for them. He sould be wraped in a blanket or a pouch and it shouldn't be touching the heating pad. It should be about and inch or two apart. The reaason being, that the pad can accidently burn the gliders skin. Good luck
_________________________
Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!

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#78634 - 01/20/06 07:24 AM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
mom still cleans him, but leaves him alone for too long so, as long as see seems to want to lick him clean and do all him "eliminations" for him id like to let them be together, but just a few hours each day now.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"green"]In spite of this, I would still separate them. One of my mothers was doing the same thing for about a week with one of her joeys that I was supplementing... Then, one day I went to the store for about an hour... When I got home, I checked on them & found little baby parts... I had caught her in the middle of cannibalizing the joey... It was very gross & heart-rending...
Since your glider isn't feeding the joey anymore, I would still separate them, just to be safe...
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I cant keep him in my bra cause he gets too cold! I guess im just not warm enough even right against my skin...

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"green"]Wrap a couple layers of fleece around him, then tuck him in: he will stay warmer that way. If it's totally not possible, then make an incubator. You can make one with a small rubbermaid container, fleece, bath towels & a heating pad. Drill holes in the lid of the container, then wrap the heating towel in multiple layers of towels, turn it on low & place it under the container. Layer the fleece inside the container for the little one to sleep on (similar to the instructions on my web-site). For humidity in the container, see my web-site instructions...

I hope this helps out...
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> & <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#78635 - 01/20/06 08:46 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


He is doing good today so far, I have him in an incubator. I did seperate him from mom. Im a little sad for them both, as its now been a full 24 hours without mommy. Eating well, and he seems fairly lively and seems to get around okay. He dosent make much noise though. Hes pooping and peeing well, so thats encouraging. I guess this guy is going to be the sweetest boy ever with all this extra attention. Do you think, assuming he survives this ordeal, that i can put him back with his parents once he is weaned and neutered? Will he remember them, or will they remember him? Will he have to always live alone from his family? Any experiences putting older joeys back with their parents once they are 5-6 mo old and can hold their own...I really dont want to get anymore gliders, and giving this one away might be really hard to do... not on him, but on me!

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#78636 - 01/20/06 08:51 PM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
It is possible to reintroduce them but odds are they won't remember him as a family member. One thing that will help is to keep their cages side by side and have daily contact with each other. (supervised play time) This way he doesn't become a stranger. It could also depend on if Dad is neutered. He might see the joey as a threat but that is lowered by the joey being neutered. And yes, it most likely be very very hard for you to let him go. As bad as it is to have to hand raise a joey, it does have the up side of creating an extreme bond with them.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

Top
#78637 - 01/21/06 12:56 AM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
When a joey becomes cold... which is usually brought on by dehydration due to lack of proper nourishment... the parents will not cuddle up with the baby. Thus... a dehydrated little one should not be returned to the parents till the little one has asorbed enough fluids in it's little body and is warm. Usually this means... removing the little one for about two to four hours for sub-q'ing and oral feedings.... and after that period baby should be hydrated enough to hold heat while at least with one parent babysitting him.

If baby is fed every "two" hours and is not suffering from dehydration... the little one will be taken care of by his/her parents and is not usually abandoned.

Babies that are hungry... and not fed on time by a care giver will resort to trying to nurse off of their mother. Should the mother not have any milk she will resort to nipping or killing the tiny thing out of frustration.

So... my suggestion would have been, rehydrate by sub-q'ing with a saline solution with 5% Dextrose.... half hour later feed the little one. Then try feeding the little one every two hours along with another sub-q of fluids. If super hungry due to small amount being taken and also due to baby's smaller size... then feed a little closer than every 2 hours. But remember... do not over feed.

Just because the mother cannot feed her tiny one... does not mean she will kill it. This only happens if the tiny one is not being fed enough milk by it's care taker due to too long of a period of time between feedings. Bite marks or scrapes on the facial area are good clues that a mother is frustrated from a hungry baby that she cannot feed.

When going out on errands... take the tiny one with you along with feeding supplies to feed the baby on time. If for some reason not able... then put the little one in incubator till you get back. This will solve the problem of a mother who is unable to feed becoming frustrated with the end result of little one being eaten. Instead... one will just have a very hungry baby.

Once a baby is pulled permanently... introducing back into the family unit is usually not possible.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#78638 - 01/23/06 01:19 AM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just giving you guys an update. My boy is going stong and getting more active and plumper by the day, he dosent look near as scrawny and pathetic as before. His eyes are bright and he moves better. Now he bites to hold onto me and his "blanki." Thanks to you guys for all your support advice, this guy is thriving because of your help.

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#78639 - 01/23/06 01:44 AM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
SweetGliders Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/17/01
Posts: 2400
Loc: Tulsa, OK, USA
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Keep up the good work..

Anita <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Anita heart
www.mysweetgliders.com

Owned by many Gliders & Cats + Wife to a Wonderful & Understanding Husband


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#78640 - 01/23/06 07:08 AM Re: abandoned Joey Need some advice have questions [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Thank you for the update... It's wonderful to hear that your little guy is doing so well! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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