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#813622 - 07/29/09 09:02 AM ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW
sugarlover09
Unregistered


hey guys, I am getting two gliders soon and have run into a question with the HPW. I have seen the recipe floating around saying 2 tsps of bee pollen are needed, but was told that the recipe in Peggy's book says only 1 tsp is needed. So my question is, Is it ok to do it either way or does it matter? I am confused

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#813631 - 07/29/09 09:11 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
I have not seen Peggy's book, but anywhere you go it says 2 tablespoons.

Paula
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#813632 - 07/29/09 09:13 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Jaxsuggies]
sugarlover09
Unregistered


I meant to say tbs in my first post lol I was going to buy some starter kits from pamperedglider and her kits only come with 1 tbs cuz that's what it says in Peggy's book. So I was wondering if that was ok to do?

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#813633 - 07/29/09 09:20 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 1027
Loc: Iowa
Since I have a copy of Peggy's book on hand I just took a look and it does say 1 Tablespoon of Australian Bee Pollen in her book.

I also have seen the HPW recipe on several sites and they all say 2 Tablespoons I am sure.

Can anyone help out with the discrepancy?

Lindsay
_________________________
Lindsay

Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.

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#813635 - 07/29/09 09:23 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Lindsay]
sugarlover09
Unregistered


Thank you Lindsay I don't have her book so I wasn't able to check.

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#813638 - 07/29/09 09:26 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
sugarlover09
Unregistered


When I asked about the amount of bee pollen in the kits, sugeebaby said peggy's recipe calls for 1 tbs and that the extra bee pollen isn't being absorbed into the system and is causing a false reading at the vet. So I don't know what one to use?

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#813645 - 07/29/09 09:38 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
Wowwww ... I really would like to kow too. I have always used 2 tablespoons.

I hope Peggy sees this and posts!!! I hate to be giving more than what is called for.

Paula
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#813646 - 07/29/09 09:41 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
I'd suggest asking Peggy directly. Odds are, the diet probably has changed a bit since the book was published.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#813647 - 07/29/09 09:41 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
Two tablespoons is what the diet calls for as far as I know?? dunno. I havent seen peggy's book, but i do respect her and hope she can claryfy things here. However, the recipe/diet calls for the two tablespoons as far as I have seen it and used it myself. Whenever getting a fecal its easy to just confuse bee pollen with roundworm. I believe its the round worm that if looked at closely by a vet that knows you use bee pollen, that it will need to be accounted for. I think roundworm's difference from bee pollen, as they do look very similar on a fecal slide, is that roundworm has a more uniformed shape and has both an inner cell wall and an outer cell wall. Anyone correct me if i am wrong? I use what paula said as far as the recipe: 2 tablespoons of bee pollen, and I use the australian jarrah granules, blended of course. To me if you dont follow a diet according to its directions, you are in fact modifying said diet?? Peggy is right in saying it can cause false readings at the vets office, you just need to know IMO with your vet that you are gonna have to assess if its bee pollen you are seeing under the scope or in fact roundworm. I think even with one tablespoon IMO you still can run the chance of a fecal being a false positive. I'm not a vet so cant really answer any of these questions with much certainty as i'd like to. I make sure that my vet knows my diet and also make sure that he reads the fecals and not the techs, like most vet offices here do. No offense to vet techs here or anywhere, but when i get a fecal, I want the vet to look at it. I even dropped my past clinic because they were overcharging on fecals and wanted to charge me even more money for the vet to take a peek which is ridiculous to me. A vet tech can set it up and take a peek, but without vet confirmation, i dont feel comfortable with diagnosis.. dunno confused Peggy feel free to explain more, i am sure you published the bee pollen portion as one tbsp for a reason, , and like I said, I do respect your knowledge in the glider community and i'd love to hear your perspective on it dunno now i'm confused LOL.

Kristy


Edited by kristy55303 (07/29/09 10:17 AM)
_________________________


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#813651 - 07/29/09 09:46 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: snowbabygliders]
sugarlover09
Unregistered


I have sent a pm to Peggy asking her and telling her about the post

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#813653 - 07/29/09 09:58 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Beezer
Unregistered


I'm about ready to make more HPW this weekend but I'll wait until we can sort this out - I'd hate to be OD'ing Junior, Frik and Frak

Sue
owned by &
mom to

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#813721 - 07/29/09 12:22 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Here I Am wave

Yes, the Original and CORRECT way is to only feed ONE tablespoon of bee pollen in with the rest of the stuff.

Somewhere along the line, someone said two tablespoons of bee pollen and it just stuck...even I am guilty of it, yet I do only use one when I make my diets.

For those of you who do and have used two, it will NOT hurt your gliders so dont worry. They expel the excess but this just means that the bee pollen will last you longer.

Easy to get wrapped up and just go with the flow. Just goes to show you we are all guilty of it.

Hope this eases everyones minds.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#813723 - 07/29/09 12:26 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Srlb]
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 1027
Loc: Iowa
So it SHOULD be one Tablespoon, but if you are using two it won't hurt your glider.

Lindsay
_________________________
Lindsay

Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.

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#813805 - 07/29/09 02:48 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Lindsay]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
LOL peggy. thanks for the calrification. well saving money on bee pollen isnt a bad thing right? grin
_________________________


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#813812 - 07/29/09 03:02 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: snowbabygliders]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
Thanks Peggy!!!

But I do believe that this issue should be brought up on ALL boards and messages sent to all breeders who have HPW listed on their websites. I, for one will be changing the recipe on my website.

Paula
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#813817 - 07/29/09 03:06 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Jaxsuggies]
gliderma Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5402
Loc: Michigan
I will also have to change it for my own use and on my web site. Just curious how this mistake got overlooked? I'm glad it isn't something to worry about, but wondering why it got changed?
_________________________
Lynn Martel
616-272-4374
989-400-5686

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#813819 - 07/29/09 03:11 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: gliderma]
partyofsix
Unregistered


I'll have to change it on my site as well! I have your book, but I never noticed it.

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#813820 - 07/29/09 03:11 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: gliderma]
monluvspagen
Unregistered


sheesh I was starting to get scared, thank goodness Peggy gave me her book and I keep it in my kitchen haha

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#813824 - 07/29/09 03:16 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Beezer
Unregistered


Thanks Peggy - now this weekend I can make my regular batch - since my daughter just got Frik and Frak and with my Junior I'm still going to use just 1 batch and freeze it - that way I'll know it's gona stay fresh -

Thanks again -

Sue
owned by &
mom to

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#813912 - 07/29/09 06:55 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Just curious how this mistake got overlooked? I'm glad it isn't something to worry about, but wondering why it got changed?


Lynn who knows, the same way it was believed for a long time that hard foods was the cause for lumpy jaw, or that lima beans are toxic, or a glider will go blind if in the sun...

But yes, you correct, it is a good thing we didnt have to worry about and things like this SHOULD be caught...even I have typed 2 tablespoons, yet only use one... dunno
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#814163 - 07/30/09 07:51 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Srlb]
Thumper Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Cincy
A few months ago I read a post on here that said the ca:ph ratio for the HPW mixture was 1.29:1. Does anyone know if the change in the bee pollen amount will effect that ratio?
_________________________
Bobbi

:wfb: :leu: :grey: :rtmo: Jade, Kea, JimBob, Topaz, Sunny, Bruce, Selena, Harlan, Airyelle, George, Gracie and Pugsley.

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#814165 - 07/30/09 07:59 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Thumper]
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 1027
Loc: Iowa
I was always under the impression that the Ca:Ph ratio was preferred to be 2:1. I don't believe that the pollen would change that.

Lindsay
_________________________
Lindsay

Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.

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#814166 - 07/30/09 08:04 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Lindsay]
Thumper Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Cincy
Thanks Lindsay. Yes, for the overall diet. But the actual mixture was said to be 1.29:1 and I'm wondering if that would change slightly.
_________________________
Bobbi

:wfb: :leu: :grey: :rtmo: Jade, Kea, JimBob, Topaz, Sunny, Bruce, Selena, Harlan, Airyelle, George, Gracie and Pugsley.

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#814183 - 07/30/09 08:37 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Thumper]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16744
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Thumper, that is for the original diet as written. thumb
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


Top
#814188 - 07/30/09 08:49 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Srlb]
Thumper Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Cincy
Thanks Peggy!
_________________________
Bobbi

:wfb: :leu: :grey: :rtmo: Jade, Kea, JimBob, Topaz, Sunny, Bruce, Selena, Harlan, Airyelle, George, Gracie and Pugsley.

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#814606 - 07/30/09 08:08 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Thumper]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Thumper
Thanks Lindsay. Yes, for the overall diet. But the actual mixture was said to be 1.29:1 and I'm wondering if that would change slightly.


Actually, I checked the cal:phos content and ratios myself the other week because my vet showed concern over it and the ratio(with the correct bee pollen amount) is 1:1 for the non-breeding formula and 1.12:1 for the breeding formula.

Here's a chart showing the breakdown of everything: http://justforfuzzies.com/HPW_Analysis
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#814758 - 07/30/09 11:55 PM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Guerita135]
buttercup
Unregistered


I've always used 2 Tb....if Peggy says that it won't harm our suggies, I'll probably just stick with how I've always made it.

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#814765 - 07/31/09 12:38 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ]
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 1276
Loc: usa
ok comfuzzled i think im just sticking to the two tablespoons as i have been doing???
Kristy
_________________________


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#815889 - 08/02/09 11:29 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: Srlb]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
Just curious how this mistake got overlooked? I'm glad it isn't something to worry about, but wondering why it got changed?


Lynn who knows, the same way it was believed for a long time that hard foods was the cause for lumpy jaw, or that lima beans are toxic, or a glider will go blind if in the sun...

But yes, you correct, it is a good thing we didnt have to worry about and things like this SHOULD be caught...even I have typed 2 tablespoons, yet only use one... dunno

Peggy -

I have the "original" diet -- written out BY YOU. You send it to me every time you send me HPW powder, and I keep all the little cards. Every single one says 2 TBS of pollen. These are FROM YOU!

If you have changed the diet to 1, then that's great. I think 1 is probably better for them. But ... why pretend it has always been 1?

Every single discussion on HPW in the diet and Nutrition forum going back as far as they go says "2". When you and I first discussed the HPW diet, and I had many many questions for you - you repeatedly said 2.

I have since switched to 1. When I sent joeys to Dani, her vet checked them out, and then reported that they were FULL of roundworm. He couldn't understand why gliders who acted so healthy could be SO SICK. According to his initial inspections, they were undergoing a MAJOR infestation.

Turns out - what he was seeing was the excess Pollen cast out through the gliders' poo. In an initial microscopic exam, Bee Pollen looks like Roundworm eggs.

That is when I switched to One TBS. In talking to Alicia, and in thinking about it, I realized if they were casting off THAT MUCH pollen, there was probably too much in their diet.

I just don't understand why you claim it has always been One. Maybe that's what you have fed - but you have always and consistently told others TWO.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#815895 - 08/02/09 11:40 AM Re: ? about the amount of bee pollen in HPW [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Nurturingnest
Unregistered


I've always used 2 as well

Well I guess we'll be switching to one next time

Are we sure it's not doing any damage?! using 2?

I will be very upset if I have inadvertantly made my babies sick

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