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#815211 - 07/31/09 07:42 PM Recurring dental infection
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Last year, one glider of a pair of girls my grandparents had developed an infection at the base of her lower incisors. She was taken to the vet and put on antibiotics and recovered, but the vet could not figure out why she developed this infection. There was decay at the base of the teeth, which he did not know how to explain or prevent. She was older, we never knew her age but she was at least 6 years old. Unfortunately she died a few months later of diabetes and her cagemate came to live with me.

In February, her cagemate, which was in my colony, developed the same infection, along with an older male in my colony, D'Artagnan. They were vetted and treated with amoxicillin. Both infections subsided as they should have on the amoxicillin, some decay was found at the base of both of their teeth, but for some reason the older female, Fox, passed anyway. She could have been allergic to the amoxy, it was a very swift decline and she died on the way to the vet. She was 6 years old.

D'Artagnan has been doing great until I realized the infection had returned a few days ago. I checked the whole colony and their teeth all seemed to be fine, but the next morning I realized that Tyriel was developing an infection as well. D'Artagnan is 5 years old and Tyriel is 3. Both seem to be showing signs of decay at the base of their teeth. They are both on amoxicillin to treat the infection but what I don't understand is what is causing this tooth decay, what is causing the recursion, and why it spreads to others. I feed HPW and have since the middle of last year when I discovered the diet, and before that they were on BML. Frozen fruits and veggies every night, fresh fruits and veggies and yogurt a few times a week, few treats, unfortunately mealies are an occasional thing.

I am hoping someone may have had experience with this before. vets in my area are fairly new to treating sugar gliders, I trust my vet but she has not had the opportunity to see as wide a variety of health issues as some have. Any advice or suggestions on the cause or prevention of further infection would be greatly appreciated. I am worried that there is nothing that can be done about the decay without actually having their incisors removed, which would be a last resort (with the recommendation of their vet, of course).

Thank you any and all for advice that can be offered.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#815243 - 07/31/09 08:36 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: kitsune]
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 21060
Loc: Kansas
I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your babies.
:rbridge: Godspeed precious ones.

What type of water are you giving them?
Do you offer hard foods for snacks?
Do they have tree branches to chew on? If so, are they disinfected?

Sorry for all the questions, but since this is not an isolated situation, I'm wondering if the cause can be from one of the above questions.

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#815254 - 07/31/09 09:06 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: LSardou]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
If the incisors are spread at all they could be getting food caught between their teeth causing the infection. Brushing/flushing the teeth can help remove any caught food particals.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#815310 - 07/31/09 10:51 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: glidrz5]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
Feeding more mealies could possibly help. I was told to feed them in the morning because they clean their teeth. Maybe even freeze dried if they will eat them? I don't have experience with dental issues, just a suggestion. Good luck! hug2
_________________________

:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow









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#815349 - 08/01/09 12:52 AM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: SugareeErin]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Linda--

They get tapwater, in our city there is no floride in the water because it's a hippie town (lol). Very few other additives to the water except what is required to keep it clean.

They get fresh baby carrots a few times a week, but if I feed them every night they won't eat them.

They live in a reptarium with some plastic toys at the bottom but the rest is fleece. I don't have anything in there that they seem to be interested in chewing on. I honestly hadn't thought about it. I've been seriously considering grabbing some euc but I'm ordering everything online through friends since I don't have paypal anymore.

I completely agree about the fact that it's not isolated, that is what really worries me. So far each time it's happened here it has spread to someone else, D'Artagnan's is more advanced so it seems obvious that his infection came back from before and then spread to Tyriel. Both are neutered males, Tyriel is overweight (about 200g) and that is what really worries me. He's one of my best cuddle buddies, my teddy bear, and I'm worried his weight will be a factor in his recovery. I honestly don't know what I'd do with myself if I lost either of them. Lucy also has a joey ip about 6 weeks along and I'm very worried about having infection in the cage with the joey present, and what to do if it spreads to Lucy. I don't want to separate the boys and upset the equilibrium of the colony and the joey ip unless it's necessary. They always sleep together in the same pouch. No one else seems to have any cavities, but then, Tyriel's looked fine when I first checked him. I even have a picture of his teeth from about a year ago and they're literally perfect and white.

I'd love some suggestions on what to provide for them to chew on, I will definitely check out the freeze dried mealies and see if they like them, live mealies can be a bit of a pain to get a hold of right now though, and are expensive to keep around since I seem to go through a 50 count in about 2 days when I have one and nowhere in my apartment to keep a mealie farm. I had to quit farming my own mealies when my son was born.

Chris--

The incisors don't seem to be spread apart at all and I haven't noticed anything stuck, I've made a habit of checking everyone's teeth every few weeks at least since the last infection developed in February. I can tell you that a week before I caught it this time D'Artagnan's teeth looked healthy aside from the slight decay, which my doctor said there was nothing I could do to fix. I could try flossing, but it seems like it would be stressful to wrangle each one every morning for a flossing. The decay also seems to be on the outside of the incisors, not between them, which is what stumps me. I'm really hoping that giving them something to chew on will solve the problem, the thought of getting those teeth removed scares the poo out of me!

Erin==

I have heard that mealies clean teeth before, I will definitely look into the dried mealies, I just wonder why this has been a problem in two separate situations now. The little female my grandparents had that developed the infection was fed mealies every day. She was also fed a hard pelleted diet and they fed her a lot of extra [censored], I warned them to cut back on the nightly whipped cream (!!) but it was just too cute for them to deny the girls their favorite treat. Unfortunately, that is what caused the diabetes that killed her in the end. I am trying to find a connection between how Cricket lived and how my gliders live, and honestly there isn't one. Since Fox is the one that developed it first here, it could have been carried from Cricket and harbored, but it was almost a year between the original infection with Cricket and when the infection showed up in my colony. I am being very careful and washing my hands before I handle my other gliders to hopefully prevent spreading it further.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#815457 - 08/01/09 11:01 AM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: kitsune]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


If it's possible, I would have your vet culture the infection. Just to see what exactly it is that you're fighting. Some antibiotics work better on one infection than another. Culturing might give you a better idea of the source too, since soem bacteria are more prone to living on certain things than others.

I just got a reptarium myself, and you can put branches in there, even hanging. My set up came with 3 little almost tube pieces about 6 inches long, that snap around the support poles. To attach branches, all you need is to drill a little hole in the snap piece, then drill a screw into it and the branch you want to attach. The screw faces outward from the support pole when it's assembled...buried in the branch...hope I'm describing this well enough. There are links in either health and hygeine or housing and accessories that describe safe woods and how to sterilize branches in your oven. Chances are you have branches close to you that are perfectly acceptable to use in the cage.

I hope this clears up for you and your babies, it sounds just awful!

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#815480 - 08/01/09 11:45 AM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: ]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Yes, I know that branches can be added to my rept, but I got it used and the frame is not very sturdy anymore, it's cracked in many places. I didn't want to put extra weight on it. The cover also needs to be replaced because it's been through a lot already, I wouldn't want to lean any branches against the cover. I'm waiting for Tails 2 Scales to open back up for a 260gal cover and hopefully soon I'll have a new pvc frame cut as well. I am just not terribly fond of using wood in their enclosures because it retains urine so badly, and I don't trust a do-it-yourself wood treatment process. I do have a piece of driftwood (commercially treated for pets) in my other cage and those gliders have never had any dental issues, but I haven't seen any evidence of chewing on the driftwood. Come to think of it though, I remember seeing those gliders chew the bars of the cage, and since I switched to the rept in January the colony has not had bars to chew on. I've had gliders for 6 years now and this is the first reptarium I have had, and the first time I've had any kind of problem with their teeth, so maybe the two are related.

I have a few dowel perches from cages I used to have that I can toss in there for now, I'd just like to find a more sanitary way...I'm already considering tossing the driftwood because it's far too saturated and needs to be replaced.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#815503 - 08/01/09 12:27 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: kitsune]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
As stated above... have a C&S done. C&S cannot be done when the animal is on meds. Culture needs to be done before treatment has been started.

In the wild gliders will chew on the manna tree bark and bones of small animals they are able to catch.

As a breeder of fifteen pair of sugar gliders I have never had a dental issue. I include a dry crunchy feed to their diet. Mazuri New World Primate is the name and it has a dental guard in it to help prevent tooth decay.

Infections of the gums should be cultured first and treated with proper antibiotic. Once the infection from the decaying tooth/teeth is under control the vet should extract the decayed tooth/teeth to prevent further flair ups.





_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#815509 - 08/01/09 12:42 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: Judie]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
I have a glider with dental issues since last December, It is her bottom incisors, no decay ........gingivitis
On and off antibiotics, a culture and sensitivity was done and the bacteria was treated with the right antibiotic. She weighed around 270 grams when this started and now weighs 207 grams. She has been put under light anesthesia many times for teeth cleaning, cultures and such. I am sure I am going to have to have them pulled. My vet has never done that so he is going to have to consult with someones vet who has. Feel free to contact me any time I understand about caring for a "fluffy" glider with dental issues (not grooming, eating, etc.)
_________________________
USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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#815581 - 08/01/09 02:45 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: Cora]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Beth, you could try cork bark - it is light weight and most gliders like chewing on it. It would be a gentle gum massager, I think.

As for your frame, I would probably build one. I held out for a long time, keeping the old frame that had started to crack/break. Finally gave in and bought some PVC cutters ($12 at Home Depot, $29 at Lowes shock ), and PVC pipe is cheap. I am sorry I didn't replace the frame sooner!

For branches with your current frame, you could always zip tie the branches vertically, so it won't put a lot of stress on the frame and no stress on the cover. dunno
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#815628 - 08/01/09 05:29 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: sugarlope]
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/18/03
Posts: 1889
Loc: Springfield/Eugene, OR
Judie--

They are already on meds, so it sounds like it's too late this time. If the infection shows up again I will request a culture when they get to the vet. Cricket was on Mazuri when she first developed this issue though, which leads me to believe this could be something other than a teeth cleaning issue...I have the bottom part of a bag of Mazuri my grandparents gave me with Fox but I never use it because last I heard it was not good to feed, even as extra grazing food.

Gretchen--

The cork bark sounds like a really good idea, there are some wine shops around here that could probably tell me where to get natural pieces of cork. As for the rept frame, that's exactly the plan! I've got the whole thing drawn out, the measurements of the pipe that I need to cut, the extra pieces I want to keep in case I want to mod it now and then, and I'm totally excited about it, I'm just trying to find a time when Chels can help me cut it all. We've both had some stuff to deal with lately so we've had to put it off a few times but we'll get it done eventually, lol.
_________________________
Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove

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#815629 - 08/01/09 05:41 PM Re: Recurring dental infection [Re: kitsune]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Oh...tails to scales is open...I ordered my rept and it was about 10-14 days before I got it, so I guess a little longer than usual but not closed.

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