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#815904 - 08/02/09 12:00 PM Sap versus Honey Wars
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
There has been some interest in natural saps lately. So I did a quickey search and found out some nutritional info.

Here is a link to the info on Natural Maple Syrup This is uncut.

Whole Foods

And

Wholefoods 2

Here is a place with the nutritional info on honey. At the top of the page, I selected 14 grams to make the comparison more accurate.

ELook



Also a few years ago, I also looked in to syrup made from Birch Trees but now I canít find any info. I will keep looking.




The other thing that I found, and this is a real shocker, is an article about using Palm Tree Sap. This is kind of long but well worth reading


Palm Sap as food


I hope this is helpfull to those that are looking into different diets.
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#815909 - 08/02/09 12:09 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: hushpuppy]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Anita - thanks.

I am concerned about using Syrup instead of Sap. What you have posted is helpful - I need to finish reading it all!

However SAP is what gliders eat in nature. SYRUP is processed sap, and is a VERY concentrated form of sugar (far more so than honey), and NOT natural!
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Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#815913 - 08/02/09 12:14 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: ValkyrieMome]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Real syrup is sap that has been cooked so that the water is removed. There is nothing unnatural there and simply by restoring the water, it turns back into sap.

A few years ago, when I originally looked into this, I contacted one of the syrup companies about purchasing sap. They told me to add water and it would become sap again.


Edited by hushpuppy (08/02/09 12:17 PM)
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#815920 - 08/02/09 12:27 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: hushpuppy]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Oh. Really? Cool beans!
Nice!

so... we should compare watered-down syrup with honey?
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Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#815922 - 08/02/09 12:34 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: ValkyrieMome]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
If you want to look at it that way. Or you could compare watered down hoey with syrup if you want to. But nothing gets removed from the sap but the water. And when you readd the water it is the same sap that came from the tree.

If you look at the information, the syrup actually has 8.9 grams of total sugar in 13.33 grams of syrup.

Honey has 11 grams of sugar in 14 grams of honey.

So even full strength, syrup has less sugar than honey.
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#815924 - 08/02/09 12:39 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: ValkyrieMome]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Thanks a LOT, Anita!

Started looking up Palm Sap. Then I got lost exploring the Nipah Virus. Then I was engrossed in reading about viral transmission in native tribes. And zoonotic viruses.

Thanks a lot! You just are trying to distract me from cleaning cages, aren't you!!??
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#815929 - 08/02/09 12:42 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: ValkyrieMome]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
I'm busted. LOL you didn't really want to clean cages today now did you?

The other thing that I thought of when I read that is how my gliders always attack a Majesty palm when I put it in their room. I haven't given them one in forever because they really show no mercy. I always thought that was because they use the leaves for nesting material. But now I wonder if they were also going for the sap. They don't do that with any other plant.


Edited by hushpuppy (08/02/09 12:46 PM)
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#816602 - 08/03/09 06:19 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: hushpuppy]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
anita,
thank you for the information. i dont use honey for gliders, it just never sat right with me, that is
why my gliders are on the suncoast diet. i have been
looking for a more natural sap to feed my giders and
use for my mash i make them and organic maple syrup (mixed
with a little spring water) sounds good.
i have been reading and seeing alot of people are using
maple syrup i/o honey and i like that there is less sugar.

regards,
nancy in detroit
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regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#816885 - 08/04/09 07:21 AM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: hwh4ev]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
Just be careful. There has been absolutely no research regarding using maple syrup with gliders. Just because it has less sugar, doesn't mean it is better or may have effects we don't know about. Honey has been used for decades in Australia without issue.
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Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
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#817147 - 08/04/09 03:19 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: Gossamer]
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 712
Loc: Red Oak Texas
I was reading yesterday, the glycemic index is better than Honey. It has calcium in it. It is utilized by the body better. I do use BML at this time, and plan to stay on it, for now. I would love to talk to the Australian vet that mentioned Maple Syrup. I'm thinking, how many maple trees in Australia? I don't know,. since I have never been there. I do find the debate fascinating though.
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#817818 - 08/05/09 07:27 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: anjill_tree]
Incerta Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 1092
Loc: Naperville, IL, USA
What about other kinds of syrup? Everyone always just talks about maple...
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#817843 - 08/05/09 08:38 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: Incerta]
josefine Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2713
Loc: Perry, Iowa
the other nite,i put 2oz of organic maple syrup,&mixed in 2oz of apple juice,&then 6oz of purified water. i pour a very small amt over the food. they seem to now show some interest in food. i've been trying to get them to eat for so long. maggie was still always eating some,as she would gain just a little weight, but mollie was loosing. i would put 4tbl of food in & i was always taking a little shy of 2tbl out each morning. 3tbl have been eaten the last couple of nites. hopefully,this will bring them back to eating again!!
their room is almost done. i'm really hoping that once they are free in a room,they will jump & play & get a whole bunch more exercise,so they can shed off some of the weight w/activities. only time will tell.
talk @ ya L8R
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Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
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#818125 - 08/06/09 11:56 AM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: josefine]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
What diet do you have them on?
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Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
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#818158 - 08/06/09 12:56 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: Gossamer]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
if anyone is interested I have a ton of info about the maple syrup (and have been trying for months to get someone else to look into it as well). Maple syrup also has the added benefit of calcium that will be utilized by the body PERHAPS better than supplemnts. But too much of any thing even if good can be bad. I do not use it full strength. It needs to be watered down about 40 parts water to 1 part syrup. I have been using it for 8 months and it has made quite a difference in the appearance and behavior of my gliders. I mix the "maple sap" up with a bit of pollen and acacia powder and what a change!
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#818168 - 08/06/09 01:34 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: JillMarie]
EzzieM
Unregistered


HAHA Jill, they're finally catching on laugh
(I haven't tried sap yet, but I also don't give them honey. Australian honey is better than US honey, so I just don't.)
may give the sap a go!

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#818169 - 08/06/09 01:34 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: JillMarie]
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 712
Loc: Red Oak Texas
Jillmarie, I am a nurse and love the idea of studying this topic more with you. I have been interested in Maple Syrup , since I read it in Austrlian vet article. I just want to know why would they mention it, if they too were wondering about it's content. and the way gliders utilize it in their body, compared to honey. I keep going back to this subject. This tells me " I am supposed to keep searching " I actually am compelled / driven to look into it.
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#818170 - 08/06/09 01:35 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: JillMarie]
Iceguru Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 03/07/09
Posts: 207
Loc: Louisiana
i tried pure unprocessed cane syrup and he loved it ...I only gave a bit bc it wasn't maple.
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Believe in ignorance as my best defense
So go on, wreck me
Funny how I carry on, and not be taken over
Will not roll over on anyone,
cuz anyone would stand up on my side

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#818178 - 08/06/09 02:06 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: Iceguru]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Jill, do they like it. I kind of dropped the ball on this a few years ago because mine didn't seem to like the syrup. Maybe they would with the acacia gum and pollen???

There is also Birch sap. I've found lot's of information about Birch but so far no nutritional info.
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#818309 - 08/06/09 07:39 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: Gossamer]
josefine Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2713
Loc: Perry, Iowa
i just started using pricilla's diet-maybe a month ago.
i had them on hpw,which they had been eating for quite awhile,& then one day just quit!! they still aren't eating as they should,but it is alittle better than before my mixture was added.
we had 2 gliders escape from the cage,& they both died,
&suz &i decided they quit eating because of being in mourning,but that was some time ago,& they still refused to eat the hpw.
maggie hasn't lost much weight,but mollie has.
they tested out ok @ the vet,too.
they are 5 yrs old,i mite be person #4 to have them.
they were breeders for some time,& then retired.
talk @ ya L8R
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#818526 - 08/07/09 05:36 AM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: hushpuppy]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
Why doesn't one of you get proactive and email one of the australian zoos and ask what they think about using maple syrup? See what one of their vets says? That would be the best thing to do instead of guessing.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#818647 - 08/07/09 11:37 AM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: Gossamer]
josefine Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2713
Loc: Perry, Iowa
when i checked the vet database, there were none in the austrailian list. or maybe i didn't do it rite?
talk @ ya L8R
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#818681 - 08/07/09 12:13 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: josefine]
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 712
Loc: Red Oak Texas
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Cathy Hart

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#820150 - 08/10/09 08:35 AM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: anjill_tree]
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 712
Loc: Red Oak Texas
Hi

I personally don't see the need for any sort of sugary syrup in our gliders diets. But, it is a lesser evil


Edited by sugarlope (08/12/09 03:55 PM)
Edit Reason: removed quoted text
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Cathy Hart

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#820151 - 08/10/09 08:36 AM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: anjill_tree]
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 712
Loc: Red Oak Texas
Woooppp this was a reply from Shropshire Exotics above.
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Cathy Hart

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#821245 - 08/12/09 03:29 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: anjill_tree]
EzzieM
Unregistered


marie is england laugh

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#821256 - 08/12/09 03:51 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: anjill_tree]
moorie999
Unregistered



Hmm, I thought it was an odd email!

But despite that ... no, no sugary syrupy stuff in my suggies diet. Nor in many UK keeper's diets.


Edited by moorie999 (08/12/09 04:04 PM)

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#822223 - 08/14/09 03:43 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: ]
jungleflockmom
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: EzzieM
HAHA Jill, they're finally catching on laugh
(I haven't tried sap yet, but I also don't give them honey. Australian honey is better than US honey, so I just don't.)
may give the sap a go!


In your opinion, why is Australian honey better than American or Canadian honey? There has been some discussion and info that, perhaps, some of it may not be as safe as American honey.

Just curious. . .

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#822616 - 08/15/09 02:52 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: ]
EzzieM
Unregistered


I meant to put that in quotations, lol as in "aussie honey is better than american honey".. My point was that I just don't use honey at all.

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#822629 - 08/15/09 03:51 PM Re: Sap versus Honey Wars [Re: ]
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 712
Loc: Red Oak Texas
I am trying Reeps wombaroo diet on few pairs of gliders. WOW what a difference it made in those gliders. They ate most of each plate every nite ( not mch leftover) The energy level is better. They seem more alertand happier, if that is the word I want to say. I do still give meal worms in morning about 2-3 each. If it keeps going this well in next week or so, I'll be changing them all to this diet, It is simple also.I have been using BML faithfully, and still feel it is one of the best diets. mlove thumb grin
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