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#81611 - 02/03/06 11:59 PM Normal piggybacking...biting..... REJECTION??
Anonymous
Unregistered


I`m wondering if this is normal for the joey piggybacking. I know that they do BUT my one joey keeps latching onto them with his teeth and hurting mom and dad! The parents are getting mad at this joey and snipping/crabbing at him and trying to get him off. I really haven`t even seen them piggyback their joeys around the cage and I wonder if this is why. When the parent acts like their attacking the joey, I try to pull the joey off so they don`t hurt the little guy but I feel bad for the parents at the same time too. I know he`s biting hard because it`s hard for me to get him off. When I finally do, the poor thing starts crying <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />...when the joey cries, mom comes running back to him and then it starts all over again. Do joeys always bite their necks or back when riding on them? These are our first joeys so I really don`t know. Nick and Nina have been really good and loving parents this whole time, I`m so proud of them but when I put them all back in the cage for the night, Nina climbed into the other pouch away from the joeys. I figured I`d give her a few minutes, then I went back to look and she was still in the pouch but with one joey and dad. I found the other joey alone in the other pouch. I moved him over with the others and there was no problem doing so. I did notice that Nina`s a little nasty or moody tonght but I think it`s looking like she may have more babies IP and she got snippy the last time her babies were IP. She wouldn`t turn on her present joeys cuz she has more IP would she? OK, so I guess I have 2 questions here and one led to the other, I also need to know if the biting when piggybacking is normal too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

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#81612 - 02/04/06 04:02 AM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well it`s 4:00a.m. and Nina and the one joeys just woke me up from their crabbing as Nina was climbing at the top of the cage with the joey clinging to her again, biting Nina. Hanging upside down as Nina is trying to get the joey off her back (almost 5 feet high). Could someone please help me before she really hurts this joey?

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#81613 - 02/04/06 06:55 AM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How old are the joey's? It is normal for them to ride on their backs like you already know but the biting I am not sure. I hope someone comes along that can help you. I would say if you found him in a pouch by himself that mom might be rejecting him, maybe he is clinging to mom becasue he is hungry and she is not feeding him. Has he been gaining weight and have you witnessed her feeding him. If not you will need to give him some puppy formula or baby BML, depending on how old he is. sounds like he is a few weeks old. If she has joeys in pouch already you will want to increase her protein so she is able to make enough milk for them all. I know I probably did not help you but I wanted you to know I am here for you and someone will come along that can give you better adive in a little while. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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#81614 - 02/04/06 07:43 AM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You might want to consider supplementing the lone joey so mom's milk supply can catch up. sounds like to me the same as Blissy stated, joey rejection. Can you mix some baby bml? Here's two sites that can help you:

CRITTERVILLE

SugarGLiderSuz

Increase moms protein by adding a scrambled egg or extra mealies and chicken also you want to increase her calcium a little, Ensure or even some of the puppy replacer for her will do it.

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#81615 - 02/04/06 11:01 AM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you both so very much. First of all, the joeys will be 4 weeks old tomorrow and I weighed them both last night. One is 34 grams and the other is 36 grams. They`ve both been gaining weight, both have been weighing the same as each other until last night, that`s if my scale is being accurate. They both have been licking fruit smoothies off my fingers too.

I have increased her protein for a long time now, ever since I noticed these 2 joeys in her pouch, so ever since October she`s been getting extra chicken, eggs, mealies and crickets along with pinkies, mom and dad both had pinkies yesterday morning. I also feed Ensure everyday, they are on the Darcy`s diet.

I still can`t tell these joeys apart yet, so I`m not sure which one keeps clinging to mom, should I supplement both of them you think?

I honestly didn`t think she was rejecting this joey as she`s in the pouch with both of them everyday.

Cycy, I haven`t looked at your sites yet but I`m going to right now, I`m just wondering how often should I be supplementing them? I have most of the ingredients for BML but I don`t think I have the babyfood. Can I supplement them with vanilla ensure until I can get some? If so, can the Ensure have the calcium in it like I mix for the Darcy`s diet?

Thanks a million both of you!

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#81616 - 02/04/06 11:48 AM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, I just took one of the joeys out and tried to give hime Ensure but he wasn`t interested at all. Could this be because he has been nursing? Finally after a long battle of trying to get him to eat some, he started crying and mom and dad both came flying out of their pouch to find the baby. Mom even bit my finger as I was trying to give her back her joey. I also noticed her pouch looked like it had been opened up more than usual and kind of red, maybe that`s because I could see inside of it. I know people have mentioned pouch infections but I don`t think that`s her case, I think the other joey was nursing. I did get to snap a quick pic of it but it`s not the best, but Id like to just know her pouch looks normal for a nursing mom. Keep in mind, I think she may have 2 more IP. Picture is attached.


Attachments
526568-NickandNina293.jpg (32 downloads)


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#81617 - 02/04/06 01:07 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think that them clinging to mom and dads back is ok. Mom and Dad will make the baby get off when they want too. So , I would not worry to much about that, now that you have clerified that they are eating and mom is not rejecting them. sounds, like they are being good parents to come for the baby when it stated crying. By the pic, it looks pretty much like my mom's pouch.

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#81618 - 02/04/06 01:19 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Blissy, thank you for that encouragement. They were definitely concerned about where their baby was. They ran around frantically looking for their baby when they heard him cry and definitely wanted him back, there was no doubt about that. I`m going shopping right now and I`m going to pick up the 2 ingredients that I need for the baby BML and I`m still going to try to help mom out, especially if she does have 2 more IP. I hope the joeys like it better than the ensure, he was not interested in it at all. I`m hoping it was just because he wasn`t hungry.

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#81619 - 02/05/06 01:53 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Denise,
They aren't my sites, per se, just two sites that I found very helpful to me personally. Suz, herself, was a great help to me, as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You can still supplement them both. sounds like mom may just need a break here and there. You might want to just feed one to two supplements throughout the day for her. Try taking them for a few minutes at a time at first, since mom is so snippy towards you. Make sure you don't take them anywhere where she cannot see them and see what you're doing. Make it small intrevals at a time at first only feeding a little at first. Increase your time each time you get them until you work your way up to being able to take them for 15 to 20 minutes at a time. Pretty soon, mom will love that you babysit for her so she can eat and run around for a little while.

Make sure you don't over feed them, if you hold them up and look on their lower left side of their abdomen, if you see a white color, this means they already have milk so be careful not to over feed them. Always warm them up good before you try to feed them, they won't eat if they're cold.

After you are finished with the supplements, simply place them back in the pouch with mom and dad. You will get a lot of sniffs and then they will probably want to groom and clean them from being away from them.

I usually would take both joeys from mom and dad and keep the pouch they were in on my lap under a heating pad to keep the other one warm while feeding the first one. I did this only because my mom needed and deserved a break, and in doing so, the joeys seemed make a human bond a whole lot better and faster. The times I did this was, about 4:PM and again at 8:PM. Then again, my suggie mom is very bonded to me and allowed me to do this with all her babies. So, although this way worked out well for me, everyone gets their own method going....
GOOD LUCK and Please let us know if you need any more help!

Oh yeah, you might want to rub your hands on the pouch they stay in, to get the scent on you, that way the babies will feel less threatened and mom and dad will not smell you on them as much when you replace them.

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#81620 - 02/05/06 02:50 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 10569
Loc: IL (St. Louis area)
I've never had a problem with joeys hurting mom or dad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> I just hope everything works out okay for you.


Attachments
526977-StichPiggyBackGrr.jpg (11 downloads)

_________________________
~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~

:grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:

>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<

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#81621 - 02/05/06 04:39 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
****When returning the babies to the parents... do so inside their pouch and not in the cage area. Babies left on the wire will cry for a parent to rescue them and are dependent on a parent to take them back to the pouch.

Parents become somewhat frustrated if the joey does not climb onto their back properly... seems to be a learned trait for the joey...thus the parents will nip at it or try to knock him off either by shaking and rubbing against something. Baby then becomes more determined not to be left behind so he will bite the skin... and his little sharp nails dig even more into the parents skin

Remove the second pouch to prevent the parents from changing nests to eleminate the possibility of accidently leaving a baby behind and alone.

Babies in another week or so...will begin the weaning process on their own. So, no need to worry about the possibility of new joeys in the mother's pouch. She will allow her older offspring to nurse but not quite so frequently... thus the little ones will start checking out the food dishes late at night.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#81622 - 02/05/06 05:44 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


First of all I`d like to thank you all so much for taking the time to help me out here!

I`d also like to add that me and the parents are very bonded. There`s no problem with that at all. They have me babysit the whole evening during playtime. Well, we stay in the bathroom for at least an hour to 2 hours and they always come back to check on the babies then go off to play again. They`ve been letting me hold the joeys right from the beginning.

Cycy, I`m alittle confused about checking their abdomen. I know about that with newborns but my joeys are 4 weeks old now with a good amount of fur. I didn`t think you`d be able to tell at this age? I started giving them baby BML last night and they both took some off my finger. I tried the shallow dish but it didn`t work, they prefer it as a licky treat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I just stopped feeding them when they didn`t want anymore. Did I do wrong?

Mom has been a little snippy lately but that`s not normal I don`t think. She got like that when she had joeys IP and now she`s back to it again, that`s one reason I think she has more IP now. And she also bites me hard sometimes when I try to get the joey off her back when I see she`s getting aggressive with them. I don`t want any of them getting hurt. She bit me hard and I`m really hoping she`s not biting the joeys that hard! I will say that if she is, then I`m happy that I`m taking those bites for them. I try to get them off her back too because I remember in another thread, someone lost a joey because the mom shook the joey off her back. I`m just trying to do what`s good for them all.

Judie, it sounds like you`re familiar with the behaviors between my joeys and parents. Do you think the parents will seriously hurt the joeys for not riding the way they want them too? Will the joeys eventually learn these traits?

Well thank you for your help as well. I will remove their 2nd pouch, I have it in their so they can choose where they want to be, one may be a little cooler, farther away from the heat and the other is a little closer if they need more heat. I just don`t know how warm they stay in those pouches w/ blankets so I give them a choice. Don`t worry, I`ve never returned the joeys into the cage without putting them in their pouch. I don`t wanna make enemies with the parents lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, I`m glad the joeys are close to weaning so I won`t have to worry if they`re getting enough to eat or not. When I do see them eating the food, should I increase their amounts gradually or go straight to giving them 1 Tbsp of everything per glider as I do for the parents. Ok, that was just a little off topic but I was led to it lol.

Once again, thanks a ton!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

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#81623 - 02/05/06 10:29 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yepper, hard to see milk in their tummies once the fur is all there. Here's what you might try next time they want to try lickies (see my attachment). I used this method, with a little baby spoon, it seemed to help them learn how to eat from a bowl, for me anyways.


Attachments
527306-SpoonFed.jpg (13 downloads)


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#81624 - 02/05/06 10:34 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here's another one


Attachments
527308-Gizmofirstbabyspoon.jpg (13 downloads)


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#81625 - 02/06/06 06:00 AM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Great idea Cycy! Thanks for sharing. I`ll have to try that next time. So being that I can`t tell if they`re full by looking at their bellies, can I assume they`re full when they don`t want to eat? One of my boys will lick my finger clean about 3-4 times and the other boy, I`m lucky if he licks once. Does this mean mom`s feeding them pretty good or could it mean they don`t care much for the BML?

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#81626 - 02/06/06 12:37 PM Re: Normal piggybacking...biting? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


From everything you have written, (of course I am no expert, at all), but I think they are being taken care of as much as mom can right now. She probably instinctively knows that she has two more to care for, and may be trying to start the weaning process a little early, and you being there feeding the baby bml to them as lickies, is just going to aid in her weaning, and help get them started (already done) on liking BML. I think you're doing a great job!
Keep us posted !

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