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#823368 - 08/17/09 05:50 PM Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet?
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
I got Suncoast's newsletter today & they're talking about a new diet they developed with Dr. Dierenfeld, as well as a study that Dr. Dierenfeld did in 2006 comparing something similar to the Suncoast diet, something similar to this new diet (I think), & BML. I'm wondering if anyone has opinions on this new diet. Apparently after using it for a few years on half of their gliders, Suncoast has decided to switch them all from Zookeeper's Secret to the new Wholesome Balance dry food.

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-90.htm

Misty

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#823374 - 08/17/09 05:59 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: IowaMisty]
insaneglider26
Unregistered


Yeah I saw that and was interested in opinions too!

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#823376 - 08/17/09 06:07 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: IowaMisty]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I think too many *vets* are trying to come out with their own *manufactured* foods because they see $$$$$$$$$$$$$

But that is my own personal opinion.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#823382 - 08/17/09 06:17 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Srlb]
Kayrahmommie Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Tennessee
I was just getting on here to see if anyone else had read their newsletter, I'm defiantly curious about opinions on this. I'm happy to see the animal by-products have been done away with. I may try some, but I'm really interested to see what everyone else thinks.

I have to agree with Peggy though, a lot of the market flood of glider foods just seem to be focused on greed and not animal well being.
_________________________
Kaylagrin
Mommie to two suggies, one fat and lazy bulldog, and my wonderful furless baby.

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#823474 - 08/17/09 10:02 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Kayrahmommie]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
I don't want to assume that about Dr. Dierenfeld. She has great credentials & experience & so far is about the only one attempting any research on gliders, that I know of. The research study linked to in the newsletter only used 9 gliders, which isn't enough to get real conclusive results, but it's a start at least.

I am curious though what people think of the ingredients in this new diet & whether or not one should use it as the staple food in a diet with fruits & veggies. I thought it'd be good to get a discussion going. If anyone has any thoughts about the data results from the study, we can discuss that here too.

Misty

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#823480 - 08/17/09 10:22 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: IowaMisty]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Misty, I was at the SGGA that she talked about the diet study. ALL three diets were very similar if I remember right as far as the outcome on things, and yes you are correct, there were a very small number of gliders and the study wasnt for a very long period of time to really get the accurate results that most *labs* do.

Im not in anyway trying to knock her, I just think that some vets do just that.

There are SEVERAL vets out there that are really researching gliders and all aspects of them other than her. I know of Dr.Tristan, Dr.Walsh, I believe Dr.Bradley, Dr.Ness and several others I just cant think of but sure others will be on to talk about.

I think if a GROUP of veterinarians along side some nutritional experts (which we all know none of us are!!)got together and knew more about the anatomy and health of gliders, a better diet could be found. Possibly?

Until then, we can really only go by what we feel comfortable feeding our gliders. It doesnt matter what everyone else thinks, feels or advises, the bottom line is we are all responsible for our own gliders and we have to make the choices we feel is best for them.

I personally, do not think I would consider feeding this food as an every day diet. It might be one of those I would use as far as having to evacuate, but for now, my diet is working for my gliders, so why fix what isnt broken?

I too am interested in what others have to say about it.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#823490 - 08/17/09 10:51 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Srlb]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
That study held little value to me as there were just to many things done wrong with it.

First, the gliders used were shipped in to where the study was done. We all know how stressful this is on gliders and how it can effect their processing of nutrition (some won't eat, some eat more, some get stress illnesses etc).

Second, there just didn't seem (based on what was reported at the time) to be good enough "control" over the study. To many variables involved.

Third, as Peggy said, this was a very short study. We (many of us rescuers) have seen gliders that have been on junk diets for years that appear healthy but have serious underlying diet related issues.

There are diets, such as BML, HPW, P.Price, Reep's, that have been used for 5+ years with great results. I agree, don't fix what ain't broken.

What works for me, Reep's diet doesn't work for Peggy (who uses HPW). That's fine because HPW doesn't work for me.

No matter how good a diet is supposed to be, if your glider won't eat it, it isn't any good for your glider.

Before I could get behind this new Wholesome diet (and just what makes it more wholesome than other diets?) I would want to see the research that has gone into it. What ingredients and why those ingredients were chosen. But more importantly, I would HAVE to see years of successful use of this diet.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#823525 - 08/18/09 01:17 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Dancing]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
I also received the newsletter and feel that if you already have a diet that is working for your babies and has been around for a while.......why change anything?
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#823534 - 08/18/09 03:02 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Gizmogirl]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


At least the ingredient are better than Zoo Keepers!

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#823551 - 08/18/09 07:26 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: IowaMisty]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
This isn't meant to be a whole diet - it states that on the suncoast page. It is an alternative staple food for those that use one. I personally think that the ingredients look good in this. However, I'm always leary about using something that hasn't been around a while.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#823557 - 08/18/09 07:45 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Gossamer]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


Yes.. it's only meant to be used exactly as Zoo Keepers was/is.

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#823561 - 08/18/09 07:58 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
Avri
Unregistered


Lisa sent me a sample with my last order of Zookeepers. Although I feed HPW I still like to leave a dry staple in the cage at all times in case they get hungry. My guys only nibble and snack on the Zookeepers - I've never seen them actively attack a piece like they do a mealie.

I tried the new wholesome balance for 2 nights and they definitely liked it alot, I saw them eating it soon after waking on both nights.

They did still eat their HPW etc..

So based on a very small sample:

1. My fuzzbuts like it.
2. It costs about the same as Zookeepers, but may last longer.
3. Considering how my guys eat very little dry food anyway, I'll probably try it out instead of Zookeepers next time around - I definitely prefer the WB ingredient list.

Just my 2 cents ;-)

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#823592 - 08/18/09 09:06 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


My thoughts are....why work on a "staple" food? Zookeeper's and other staple pellet mixes, monkey biscuits, etc. are already widely sold. Now...create a nutritional food that can be left in the cage 24 hrs at a time, and doesn't need to be supplemented...THEN you would have my attention.

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#823608 - 08/18/09 09:58 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2833
Loc: roseville, mi
i feed the suncoast diet and also received a sample of the
new wholesome dry food,(all my gliders ate it) after my batch of zookeeper's secret is gone i will be buying the wholesome dry food, the ingredients are better.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#823667 - 08/18/09 12:15 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: hwh4ev]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Both of Dr. Ellen Dierenfeld's articles were interesting reads (the first is online somewhere, I paid to download the most recent article) but neither one gave any concrete definition to the nutrients required by gliders

I agree with lovely1inred. I wish there were a truly nutritious single food that could be left in the cage. I would still use my current diet, fresh fruits and vegetables but to have something in the cage in the unlikely event I return home late or get stuck somewhere and don't make it home to feed the gliders, I would like to have something there for them to eat. That said, I so rarely go anywhere not having a dry food is really not a problem for me.

What I would like to see is a food that includes the calcium and vitamins as the "sprinkle" method for the SunCoast diet just did not work for me.

What I REALLY want to see is a list of minimum nutritional requirements for gliders (and maximums for any nutrient that would be a problem in excess). That would allow us to evaluate the diets we currently use. Just mg amounts for Calcium, Phosphorus, Protein, Sugars, Fat and Fiber actually needed by gliders daily would be wonderful. Also vitamin requirements for gliders. There are so many products, all different, and all have general dosage amounts for other animals - but nothing specific to gliders.

I like simple, to the point, lists of nutrients our gliders need and I am not seeing that anywhere. The recognized glider diets are all different in the amounts of each nutrient they provide. Choosing a diet is still a matter of guessing which is best since there are no guidelines to compare them to.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#823681 - 08/18/09 12:48 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: CandyOtte]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: OtteMom
I like simple, to the point, lists of nutrients our gliders need and I am not seeing that anywhere. The recognized glider diets are all different in the amounts of each nutrient they provide. Choosing a diet is still a matter of guessing which is best since there are no guidelines to compare them to.


They have been studying glider nutrition in Australia for decades. I'm not sure why over in US we all say that glider nutrition is a mystery - it isn't. People just don't want to recognize the australian diets for some reason.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#823689 - 08/18/09 01:00 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Gossamer]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


Could not agree more Jeannine!

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#823728 - 08/18/09 02:54 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
Tk86
Unregistered


I think perhaps a problem with the Australia diets; Is that it can be a hard to get the same items used over there. Also even when you can get the same brand the things in the product are not the same. I grew up overseas and you would be surprised at how things are made here versus there. diet Coke for instant in Germany is called Coke-a-Cola Light, and tastes nothing like the diet American version. That being said the nutritional values would change in the products being used. Plus fruits and veggies grown over in Australia wouldn't have the same nutritional values due to growing process and the soil that the plants were grown in. I'm not saying that stuff here is better of stuff there is better just that it's not entirely practical for us residents to use diets made by Australian's when we do not have the same things available to us that they do. Would you want to risk your gliders health and nutritional needs that way?
Also pointing out that the newsletter even said it was only a staple food developed for people who wanted to have a one available to the fuzzbutts all day. It is not meant to replace a whole diet. She also even says if its not broke don't fix it.

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#823733 - 08/18/09 02:58 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


I think the Aussie diets are "confusing" here because ingredients are all listed in mL or gram or similar measurements we don't use regularly - or contain things like high protein baby cereal, which we don't have. I don't think it's as simple as adding just a tad more HPW powder to even it out.

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#823752 - 08/18/09 03:30 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 3753
Loc: Florida
It never is that easy... it would be great to see a diet that is nutritionally complete and balanced and mimics what they get in the wild but is easily available here.
_________________________
Julie
Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
The Zoo: Midnight, Severe & Nala - Claude, Pixie, Tippy & Chili - Scout & Soluna, Theo & Deegie

http://hammockhavenpetsplus.com



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#823826 - 08/18/09 06:52 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: LabNGliderMom]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Even with all the Australian diet research I have been unable to find ANYTHING that lists specifics such as the mg's of calcium gliders should have each day, or the mg protein needed daily.

How do we know how much iron is too much or too little - If there is no guideline telling us the amount they should average on a daily basis.

Everyone focuses on the old 2:1 ratio but no one is defining the daily need for each nutrient. If a diet has 3000 mg Ca and 1500 mg P - the ratio is 2:1 but what if the diet only provides 200 mg Ca and 100 mg P - it is still 2:1 but one diet may be way too much calcium and the other much too little. How are we to know what our gliders really need without any established guidelines.

It is the guidelines I would like to see. Without them we are all guessing that our diets are providing what gliders really need.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#823859 - 08/18/09 09:04 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: CandyOtte]
7glider7
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: OtteMom
Even with all the Australian diet research I have been unable to find ANYTHING that lists specifics such as the mg's of calcium gliders should have each day, or the mg protein needed daily.



Well, because think about what kind of controlled studies you would need to figure this out. You would have to have an extremely large number of gliders and control all variables except just changing the calcium range and observe health in all animals over a period of time...there just isn't the funding to pull of this kind of a study. Kudos to you for asking this question though.

However, as others have mentioned, we DO know quite a bit about what types of food (and how much of them) gliders eat in the wild from studies on marsupial nutrition in Australia (look up Ian Hume's "Marsupial Nutrition," see chapter on sugar gliders). People HAVE recorded how much of what type of food the gliders eat in the wild, at what types of year, and their basal metabolic needs. However, since this is in a wild setting, this cannot be broken down into how many mg of this or mL of that. It's broken down into ratios of how much protein etc. is needed in comparison to the rest of the diet. For instance, do you know that at certain parts of the year, about 50% of a glider's diet in the wild typically consists of insects? Most of us don't feed our gliders NEARLY that much protein. Furthermore, these ratios will change based on the time of year, whether or not the glider is breeding, etc. So you can see it's much more complicated than just saying "a glider needs 10 mg of calcium a day."

The Aussies have based their diets for gliders based on these studies of the ratios and types of food gliders eat. No, we don't have the exact ingredients here, but we can replicate their diet quite closely.

I feed Dr. Cathy Johnson Delaney's diet for sugar gliders. Her diet is closely based off of what they feed gliders in Australia and the ratios of nutrition that gliders need based on research in Australia (and she has spent some time over there studying this, and when we go in for vet visits, she frequently expresses her frustration that many glider owners in the U.S. continue to ignore the large body of Australian research, lol). Pretty much the only thing in the diet here that I can't get is high protein baby food cereal. blush Everything else is not hard to come by. The argument that "we just can't get the ingredients over here" really doesn't hold much water now that you can order supplies off the internet. The basic Leadbetter's mix is actually very simple to make.

Also, the mL and grams are not really a big deal, lol. Your standard measuring cup has both "cups" and mL on it. Also, the simple kitchen scale I use to mass my gliders can also be used for measuring out ingredients. Then again, I'm decent at metric conversions because I'm a science teacher, har har.

If you want more info on her diet, feel free to PM me. It is a less well known diet, many people here have not heard of it. My gliders have been eating it for 2 years and are doing great.

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#823860 - 08/18/09 09:08 PM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
7glider7
Unregistered


Also wanted to add, that while we may not be able to express the EXACT number of mg of Ca that is EXACTLY ideal for gliders, we DO have a general idea of the range. If you look at the article that came out a few years back, they compared the levels of vitamins and minerals in the study gliders to bloodwork of gliders in the wild, if my memory serves me correctly, and there was some concern that our diets in captivity might have too MUCH vitamins and minerals (possibly the opposite problem of what was occuring when gliders first entered the pet trade in the U.S.).

While I wouldn't feed my gliders a pellet staple, I am glad to see that there is going to be what appears to be a fairly nutritious pellet (with crude animal protein as the main source rather than soy-based or corn based) out on the market for people who do want to feed their glider pellets and aren't willing to bother with a crazy mix (like I am :p)

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#824000 - 08/19/09 07:43 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
Viva La Glider Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 862
Loc: Saint Petersburg, FL
Lisa from SunCoast here. Thanks a lot to those who received a sample of Wholesome Balance, tried it, and posted their opinions here, we really appreciate your feedback.

Since this is a new product and people sometimes don't have time to read all the information we provide, I thought I would address a couple of the questions that have popped up.

Regarding Dr. Ellen Dierenfeld, she's an animal nutrition scientist – not a vet - with an extensive background in designing diets for exotic animals. I realize a lot of vets have come out with their own “designer” animal foods, and some companies claim that their glider food was "approved by their panel of vets" and so forth. I’m not saying a vet can’t design a good glider diet, just there's a pretty big difference between Dierenfeld’s experience and that of most veterinarians. While the nutritional study Dr. Dierenfeld conducted on sugar gliders is not definitive itself statistically, it seems logical to conclude that it could be at least directional for a person with Dr. Dierenfeld's background, a person previously responsible for overseeing diets for 18,000 mouths at the St. Louis Zoo.

Wholesome Balance has been actively under scrutiny in our glider colonies for over 2 years now in a 50 / 50 split trial with ZooKeeper's Secret, so we do have several years of experience with this food as a staple offering across quite a few sugar gliders.

Regarding the comments about using a staple food in general, this is an animal husbandry choice. Wholesome Balance is a "balanced" food, meaning it does *not* have to be supplemented in any way, and also can stay in the cage for days if need be.

That said, our dietary approach, as with many of the other diets, is also to feed fresh foods, which *do* need to be supplemented. This is particularly true of the calcium component of supplementation. Feeding a variety of food not only provides a more complete plan of nutrition, but also by rotating foods we embrace an overall approach to animal care known as environmental enrichment. Exotic animals get bored in captivity and complete nutrition (staple plus fresh foods) encourages them to thrive, not just survive.

To many in the professional exotic community (for example, zookeepers), not providing this stimulation (both in food and habitat) would be similar to having a dog and never feeding treats or playing with the dog. The dog would survive, of course, but would not be terribly happy about the circumstances. This is why the "Australian diets" and their descendants tend to be complex; they were designed this way intentionally by zookeepers (sugar gliders cannot be kept domestically in Australia) to provide nutritional enrichment.

For example, in the original Taronga Zoo diet, the source of the original Leadbeater's Mix formula, there is this entry - On Wednesdays: feed day old chick when available. Since it's unlikely this would be possible or desirable in the average domestic situation, you have to make modifications. In the SunCoast diet we use boiled chicken instead...:) The SunCoast diet is really just a modification of the original Australian zoo diets, designed to deliver the same nutritional and enrichment values while not needing access to fly pupae and "high protein baby cereals" (or day old chicks). Many of the other diet plans including the one 7glider7 mentions above are similar to the SunCoast diet because they have the same Australian "roots". At SunCoast, we simply prefer to avoid the Leadbeater's / refrigerated or frozen mix approach and feed similar components fresh on a rotating basis.

However, fresh foods spoil if left in the cage too long and gliders can be very selective in what they choose to eat. The concept behind a staple food is to provide a balanced source of nutrition that doesn’t spoil, that all the gliders have access to, and is convenient and less fussy for the caretaker to deal with than fresh food. It is not meant as a *replacement* for a varied diet that includes fresh foods, though some people use it that way.

At the same time, I have to say it won't hurt your gliders to miss a fresh meal or two if circumstances prevent you from being able to provide it, and this is just one more reason to provide a balanced staple food "free choice" as animal nutritionists refer to it, meaning the food is always available.

As to diet "standards", choosing a diet should be more than a matter of guessing, and I believe there are many standards to which a large group of doctors, nutritionists and glider keepers adhere to because these standards have been time proven with sugar gliders and other animals with similar nutritional needs. If you would like to see one example of a diet based on these standards in action, see:

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-45.htm#menu

I'm not saying our diet plan is "best" - anyone with the right credentials can design a good diet - but it has nurtured many happy and healthy gliders for a decade.

Hope this info helps and if you have any other questions or comments on Wholesome Balance feel free to contact me: lisa@sugar-gliders.com
_________________________
Lisa and Arnold www.sugar-gliders.com

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#824017 - 08/19/09 08:56 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Viva La Glider]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


Quote:
Pretty much the only thing in the diet here that I can't get is high protein baby food cereal.


which can be substituted by Wombaroo High Protein Supplement cut in 1/2. Says so, right on the box. grin

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#824061 - 08/19/09 10:15 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Quote:
Regarding the comments about using a staple food in general, this is an animal husbandry choice. Wholesome Balance is a "balanced" food, meaning it does *not* have to be supplemented in any way, and also can stay in the cage for days if need be.

That said, our dietary approach, as with many of the other diets, is also to feed fresh foods, which *do* need to be supplemented. This is particularly true of the calcium component of supplementation. Feeding a variety of food not only provides a more complete plan of nutrition, but also by rotating foods we embrace an overall approach to animal care known as environmental enrichment. Exotic animals get bored in captivity and complete nutrition (staple plus fresh foods) encourages them to thrive, not just survive.


I think I am being misunderstood....

If it is a "complete" diet, then to me, that would mean there is no need for additional foods. A glider could subsist on this food the same way a cat does it's kibble. Sure, I give my cat or dog treats or table scraps occasionally, but what they count on is their kibble. Is this new food like that? It appears to me that it is not. Perhaps the development of it is a step towards de-mystifying diet for the rest of us, I just don't see what the big hype is when there are so many other similar products already in use. We are still picking from BML, HPW, Darcy's, Reeps, Suncoast, etc. as a main diet, and this new food hasn't been studied in combination with other diets either.

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#824077 - 08/19/09 10:39 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
I think Lisa is saying that these pellets are nutritionally complete - like cat kibble and you don't "have" to feed anything else if this is your choice. However, she is not recommending to feed it as the sole source of diet. Gliders do well with variety and more natural foods for them.

And sure, there are similiar products in use - but if you look at the ingredients of these similiar products - they really stink. Most are not developed specifically for gliders. The suncoast pellets are.
_________________________
Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:

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#824081 - 08/19/09 10:48 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Gossamer]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2833
Loc: roseville, mi
the dry food is to be used in addition to the gliders
diet. it is not intended to be used as the only food
source.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#824090 - 08/19/09 11:01 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Gossamer]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
I thought this thread might get some good discussion going!

I noticed that this diet is only 32% protein. I don't know exactly what % the other diets are to compare, but I'm pretty certain it's recommended that gliders have a much higher level of protein in their diet (50-75%?). If that's the case, wouldn't this Wholesome Balance diet ALWAYS need to be supplemented with something else, even if you wanted it to be the primary food source? I'm interested in what you all think about this? I think this pellet might be on the right track, but is it lacking enough protein?

I agree that providing some variety is good, but I also am wishing there were a pellet food that was 100% nutritionally sound for our gliders. Yes I would still provide extra fruits, veggies, & proteins to create some variety & enrichment for them...but I would really love to see a pellet food that is an excellent choice for long-term use as the sole diet source. Why? Because there are always going to be people who only want to feed a pellet food, with occasional treats. And there are a lot of pet owners who want a no-brainer on the diet. They don't want to have to calculate ratios & prepare food nightly. These are exotic animals & they do have exotic needs....but the fact is, there are a lot of people purchasing gliders on impulse & it'd be great to have a better option than what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is selling them, but that isn't as confusing or time-consuming for them as a completely home-made diet.

Please don't misread that. I'm a big advocate for feeding approved diets. I have spent countless hours trying to help educate people about proper diet. I'm just saying that I'd like to see more research done & something put out there that actually is a complete diet (but CAN be supplemented with extra protein, fruits, & veggies by those who want to do so).

So....anyone have an opinion on this? Is Wholesome Balance on the right track for this?

Misty

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#824098 - 08/19/09 11:24 AM Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: IowaMisty]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


With the protein stuff - depends on how it's being measured. I read a post just yesterday in the BML archives that Randy made with regard to protein...lemmee see if I can find it. Ok...here is the thread http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...ALYSIS#Post6670 post #6686, still on the first page. I think the 50% rule came from volume/eyeballing protein product we can see, not necessarily the content breakdown.

My general opionon of the Wholesome Balance? I think it's a better grade of the Zookeeper's/Monkey Biscuit type foods, and maybe a step towards a good, totally complete commercial diet.

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