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#828294 - 08/27/09 07:28 AM Raw vs Processed Honey
CharmedSuggies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 4273
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
I have been through 2 different threads about Honey with no response to my question.

First I feed HPW and did not realized that raw honey was suggested so i've been using store bought honey.

There are too many descrepencies between raw and processed honey. It is said raw honey is bad to use & then again it's alright, almost better than processed. WHICH IS IT???

Originally Posted By: TWilson
Raw Honey- raw honey is rich in minerals, vitamins, antioxidant compounds and beneficial enzymes that allow for proper calcium absorption, effective carbohydrate assimilation, probotics for friendly bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract. Phytonutrients in raw honey include healthy by products such as propolis, a gummy substance full of enzymes created by bees when they add their own proteins with tree sap and other plant resins. It also has enzyme and protein packed pollen.

Commercially processed honey is honey that is heated to high temperatures to sterilize or pasteurize it. This process is unnecessary as there are no microbes in honey. The only way microbes can get into honey is from contamination by human hands after it is extracted from the comb. Even then, these microbes will immediately be destroyed by the honeys osmotic powers. When honey is commercially processed, honey is cooked and filtered by high pressure pumps until it is devoid of most of its mineral, nutrients, enzymes, antioxidants and photonutrients. When heated over 118 degrees, honey has its health benefits greatly reduced or completely eliminated.
Honey is processed commercially because WE prefer the clarity and light color that comes from processing out all what we see as impurities, when actually it is the healthy ingredients.
Remember if there are any botulinum spores in the honey, they will still be there after commercial processing that is why the disclaimer remains on the label of the processed honey. (Do not feed to infants under 1 year)

From what I am finding, raw honey is extremely beneficial in many ways and commercially processed honey only removes the “good” qualities of honey and all that is left is sugar.
The risk of botulism from honey is inconclusive due to the fact it the clostridium botulinum spores are everywhere. The spores are only harmful to persons with a compromised immune system.

Most beekeepers do heat their honey but to a temperature of less than 120 degrees but only to liquefy more for ease of extraction. They also filter it but with filters that don’t remove the beneficial ingredients, only particles of wax or bee parts. Honey processed this way is considered raw and unaltered.

Honey is commercially processed because people prefer honey to be light and clear, more pleasing to the eye.


This is from a Honey thread link that was posted on a thread saying NOT to use raw honey because it's bad for gliders because you risk the chance of botulism. This info basically says that Raw Honey is alright and pretty much better than the processed honey due to the by products it carries vs processed honey.

However, there is not one more definite answer than the other of whether or not raw honey should be used or the processed honey. I know most of the time it's what peoples' preferences are but i'm more concerned about the safety of my crew and not what I prefer.

Here's exactly what I want to know

1. Is raw honey really good/better than store bought honey?

2. If so, does it really matter if it's organic or not?

3. If you don't have a bee farm near you, where is the best place to buy raw honey?

4. What exact questions do I need to ask before buying the raw honey?

5.
Quote:
Remember if there are any botulinum spores in the honey, they will still be there after commercial processing that is why the disclaimer remains on the label of the processed honey. (Do not feed to infants under 1 year)


If this is still possible, I want to know if it's slightly possible that, that could be a factor into gliders getting bacteria infections.

I'm only talking and asking about the honey aspect and no other ingredients and/or variables.


Edited by CharmedSuggies (08/27/09 07:29 AM)
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#828298 - 08/27/09 07:45 AM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: CharmedSuggies]
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1667
Loc: Long Island, NY
Don't know the answers (though I know a lot of people use raw honey and I've never heard of them getting sick), but I thought you weren't suppossed to give to babies under 1 year due to the choking hazard.
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3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
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#828300 - 08/27/09 07:47 AM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: CharmedSuggies]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Melissa, I dont think anyone can really answer your questions. We just DONT KNOW...that is part of the problems with Gliders and their diets. It is still uncharted territory.

When I first got into gliders and was doing research myself, I was given a link by someone about a case of gliders getting botulism from honey, although the OWNERS said that is what it was, it was never proven with backup records from the vet. To me personally, that is just another he said she said things and folks got scared and the rumor got started not to feed raw honey. Is it possible to get botulism? YES, it is. It is with ANY kind of honey. Along with many foods as well.
Here is a link from the CDC that I always find helpful.

Now which should you feed? That is up to you and what YOU choose you want to offer your gliders. I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but bottom line is it is true. If you choose to feed beefarm honey, just make sure there is no honeycomb or body parts in the honey itself. Honey such as that DOES contain more vitamins and nutrients in it than the processed honey at stores. That is just like some foods are better eaten raw than cooked because once you cook them or peel them, they loose part of their vitamin/mineral content.

I hope this helps you out a little anyway. And if you cant find a honey farm near you, look on your grocery store shelves, see if you can find organic raw honey, if not let me know and i can send you the link to Fowlers farm where you can order some. thumb
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#828301 - 08/27/09 07:48 AM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: Gossamer]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
This is what I found on why an infant should not be fed honey...

Quote:
Because honey can contain spores of Clostridium botulinum and this has been a source of infection for infants, children less than 12 months old should not be fed honey.


Its in that link I posted above. thumb
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#828304 - 08/27/09 07:54 AM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: Srlb]
CharmedSuggies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 4273
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Peggy, thankyou so much hug2 You have answered my questions and I greatly apprecite that! Everything you just gave me was the info I was looking for.

I'd love to try raw honey since it has more better qualities, i.e. nutrients, etc... I guess i'll have to do a search to find somewhere to buy it so I can try and see if my crew likes it.

So, Honey has not been linked so far towards gliders & possible bacteria infections then?

I ask because I keep my cages and their stuff clean. My vet knows them all real well and is trying to figure out if anything in the diet has caused them to get bacteria infections.

I have experienced bacteria infections, one too many times. The vet tech was aslo curious because he said they can tell that my babies are well taken care of and should not be getting these bacteria infections so often. Any thoughts??
_________________________
Melissa & Aaron

Brat Pack
Roxy, Eddie, Lily :bb:

Crabby Crew
Brutus Theodore, Hugo Bug, Lulu :wfb: :leu:

Akeesha, Orion & Niko :rtmo:

SFS
Bella Belle mlove


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#828306 - 08/27/09 07:58 AM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: CharmedSuggies]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Melissa, dont want to get this thread off topic, tried to pm you but your pm box is full. off_topic
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#828530 - 08/27/09 02:23 PM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: Srlb]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
If you Google Apiaries in Ohio you will be able to find local honey.
I just looked and there are quite a few listed!!

Just for fun when you get some local honey taste it yourself. It has a different flavor..much tastier in my book.


Edited by BCChins (08/27/09 02:24 PM)
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Brenda &
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#828532 - 08/27/09 02:25 PM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: BCChins]
CharmedSuggies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 4273
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
awesome, thanks for the note Brenda!
_________________________
Melissa & Aaron

Brat Pack
Roxy, Eddie, Lily :bb:

Crabby Crew
Brutus Theodore, Hugo Bug, Lulu :wfb: :leu:

Akeesha, Orion & Niko :rtmo:

SFS
Bella Belle mlove


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#828536 - 08/27/09 02:31 PM Re: Raw vs Processed Honey [Re: CharmedSuggies]
CharmedSuggies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 4273
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Peggy, I cleaned up my messages so it should go through now, sorry I didn't see your message earlier!
_________________________
Melissa & Aaron

Brat Pack
Roxy, Eddie, Lily :bb:

Crabby Crew
Brutus Theodore, Hugo Bug, Lulu :wfb: :leu:

Akeesha, Orion & Niko :rtmo:

SFS
Bella Belle mlove


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