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#830087 - 08/30/09 03:06 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Okay, I found one of the pics I took after I'd dumped all the beetle bins into a big tub and the nasty little mites started crawling out of the bedding. *shiver*



When I found them originally they were all crowed around the handle of one of the containers. They weren't covering the entire container, like in the pic.

I do have an update on Leda too...

She still ACTS the same as far as being uncoordinated and weak, but she's LOOKING better. She doesn't look as thing and sickly and has put on a couple more grams. She seems to be adjusting to everything and is happier.

Also, the lump in her pouch have softened. My vet said that with other animals it takes a really long time for the mastitis to get better, so, I'm not sure if it ruptured or something...I didn't expect it to get better that fast, but am happy that it did!

I'm taking her to the vet tomorrow morning for the blood to be drawn. I have to drop her off and then pick her back up later. frown I'll let guys know how it goes. Please pray that there are no complications from her being put under in her current state. frown
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#830094 - 08/30/09 03:17 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Guerita135]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Originally Posted By: Judie
Mold is highly toxic to gliders. Even if bugs eat the mold they are not affected but when the glider eats the tainted bug... the glider's liver then can be permanently damaged.


If nothing else comes from this thread (am I am SURE more will) You have already helped me. I saw the post by Judie and recalled tossing not 1 but 2 farms in the past for mold in the bedding. I also have 3 gliders with KNOWN liver damage. I think I can now guess as to why.

I just took the current farm and looked at it. It looks great but I still took it out and gave it to the chickens. I WILL NOT risk my glider heath again. I will order my mealies, from someone who knows more about raising them and puts the proper time in to them than I am able too.

I really hope you are able to find what is hurting your kids and pray they all make a full recovery.

Thanks you for your post. I will continue to follow and pray hug2
_________________________
cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
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#830100 - 08/30/09 03:25 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: cyndiekb]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
What are the signs of toxin from mold that bugs have eaten?

I've always been extremely careful with my mealie farm, but, all these problems have happened since 1)moving to Ohio and 2)since getting the new bedding supplies. So, maybe there was something in the new wheat bran or perhaps just the humidity in the air where I live is enough to cause problems. :\

How can you test for toxins in gliders? I'll talk to my vet about it tomorrow when I take Leda.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#830102 - 08/30/09 03:25 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
7glider7
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Is it safe to just toss them outside Laurie? I wasn't sure if it was because I read on a mealie site once that you shouldn't throw them outside because they can mess up the natural balance of things.



I'm a science teacher with a degree in biology and zoology, and I teach a unit on invasive species...you wouldn't believe how many plants, insects, and animals have taken ahold in ecosystems and have become really disruptive to natural species due to people releasing them.

I actually agree with your gut instinct that these mealies should NOT be released into the wild, ESPECIALLY since they are carrying a parasite. If it was just a few, I'd say whatever, but since you are talking a huge volume of worms that could potentially start a wild population and/or otherwise impact local ecosystems, I really think it would be best not to release them.

The most humane thing to do might be to kill them quickly (freezer?) and then put them in the garbage. I totally empathize with hating to see your hard work go to waste and a bunch of insects being killed, but I think you are wise not to unleash them on the local wildlife.

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#830317 - 08/30/09 10:15 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally Posted By: BelladonnasMom
Quote:
Originally Posted By: USMom
Quote:
Originally Posted By: lovely1inred

I'm really curious if anyone has ever put plain yogurt in a glider's pouch before to help restore the yeast/bacteria balance. I know it sounds weird but it works on us.



I'm not sure how this works with other people, but I've always been told to eat the yogurt.

I don't think that method would work with gliders either. Putting it in a gliders pouch is only going to make her want to clean it.


As a nurse I can tell you that adding sugar to the existing yeast infection will only FEED the yeast and make it WORSE! Much much worse!!!


Well to each his/her own, I've been told to use plain yogurt by a midwife for people, it was just a question if it applied to gliders. We do a lot of things for them we do with people like the pedialyte and stuff...I just wondered if it worked or if they just cleaned it all out of the pouch.

The point seems moot now anyway since Leda is improving so well.

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#830327 - 08/30/09 10:35 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Well, since asking this question, I have been quite suprised to learn that not all eat it. You truly do learn something new every day! LOL

Like I said, I think they'd clean it right out, as they love yogurt!
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Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#830611 - 08/31/09 12:12 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Well, I picked her up and the container was all warm, so I assume they had her on a heating pad to make her more comfy. She obviously enjoyed being spoiled because when I looked in the pouch she was laying on her back upside down and just looked at me like she was chillin. roflmao She crabbed for a sec, but I gave her my hand to smell and she calmed right down. wink

The vet gave me a little printout(she was too busy to talk in person) saying that she didn't think that the grain mites are the problem, however, she didn't think I should continue to feed the mealies, nonetheless, so they're still history anyways. tounge

She also checked Leda's pouch really well while she was snoozing and said that everything in there looked great! dance Also, everything else(ears, mouth, skin, tummy, etc...) looked good. She did have diarrhea, but I've been told that's normal for gliders on Batril(thankfully, she's finally done with that med, so I'll keep an eye on her to make sure the diarrhea clears up).

I'll have the blood results in a day or 2. They're testing for cal:phos levels and, if they have extra blood, they'll also do a profile/CBC.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#830906 - 08/31/09 07:57 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Guerita135]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Nicole, I went in and talked to Tristan today and asked him about what is going on with you as I said I would. I figured I would be that *nicey nice* person you say I am and post what he had to say!

The first thing he asked me is what kind of bug spray did you use to get rid of your mites? I told him I wasnt sure but I know you aired it out and bleached it. He said to be sure that people realize that these pesticides we spray and use do not HAVE to be ingested through the mouth, if any is lingering around, it can also be inhaled and cause just as many issues and problems as if one of them consumed some. His suggestion was to go get blood work done on the ones that was showing neurological issues.

As for the giardia, if the gliders are experiencing a suppressed immune system and the proper cleaning, changing and sanitizing of water bottles daily and food dishes, toys, pouches. And even one dose of meds missed, it could keep the cycle going.

So there ya go. Thats what I got. Maybe it will be able to help in some way.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#830947 - 08/31/09 09:32 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Srlb]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
I didn't use any pesticides and I kept on top of the Giardia treatments. So, neither of those are possible issues. Also, all the sick gliders have been tested via regular fecals AND snap tests, none of which showed Giardia aside from Chief/Arby. However, I treated ALL my gliders for Giardia, whether or not they showed it, but the ones that had the giardia were treated a second round with additional meds.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831752 - 09/02/09 12:32 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Guerita135]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
I woke up to a voice-message on my phone...THE RESULTS ARE IN! dance

Well, it looks like my very first concerns were right: Leda has calcium deficiency!

The vet said that her blood panel came back normal and everything was fine, her calcium levels were normal, but her phosphorous levels were extremely high. She then went on to explain that what happened is that her body wasn't getting enough calcium, so it has now started pulling it out of the bones, which is why her calcium levels look normal, but her phosphorous is through the roof.

She told me to go back to supplementing Leda's diet with calcium(I stopped because she wasn't sure if it was the problem and also because I was told me other glider owners that it wasn't necessary). I should have stuck with my original gut feelings and continued to supplement the calcium(because HPW is calcium-deficient), but I guess it's a good think I didn't because then we wouldn't know what's wrong.

I called her back to see if I could talk with her, but she's busy with another customer, so I'm waiting for her to call back.

I'm going to ask her 3 questions: 1)Does she think the calcium deficiency is from diet or an underlying problem, 2)Does she think the calcium deficieny is what's causing Rosa's/Arby's problems and 3)Should we test one of the healthy gliders that cleans their plates, just to know for sure if it's diet-related?

If she thinks we should test a healthy glider then I'm going to get Woodrow tested because he's younger(so older age wouldn't be a factor), he cleans his plate every night(that's an understatement! lol!), he's a male(so having joeys wouldn't mess with his calcium levels), and he's a healthy weight/size(about 90g).

I'm SO happy that we now finally have something to work with! dance
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831790 - 09/02/09 01:25 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Guerita135]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Okay, I wasn't able to talk directly to the vet, but the secretary asked the questions for me...

Dr. Renae said that 99% of the COULD be diet-related, but there's no way to tell for sure at this point. She also said that, YES, I should bring Woodrow in, as well as Arby and Rosa, to have bloodwork done on them as well.

Sooo...I made an appointment for Tuesday. I HAD scheduled for Rosa, Arby, and Woodrow to all get tested. However, Rosa has 2 joeys IP(I just found out the other day when I checked her after noticing she was looking a bit more then milk-filled), so the secretary said it probably wasn't a good idea to have her put under for bloodwork. :\ So, just Arby and Woodrow will get tested. Arby and Rosa have the same symptoms, so hopefully that will give us some answers for BOTH of them. If Woodrow has low calcium as well, then I think that will give us a pretty good answer as to whether or not it's diet-related.

Let the waiting begin...AGAIN!
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831812 - 09/02/09 01:58 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Jenny, when Leda first got sick I thought she had HLP because all her symptoms looked like HLP. The first place I looked was her diet. I did a cal:phos analysis on HPW: http://justforfuzzies.com/HPW_Analysis

The original over-all ratio was 0.9:1. However, that was before it was announced that the HPW is only supposed to have ONE tablespoon of bee pollen. Now, with just 1 tablespoon, the ratio is 1:1.

I spoke with my vet about it and she said she'd look into it. In the meantime, I'd offered Leda some extra calcium in her diet(I added 2g of Flukers reptile calcium. It's 35% calcium, so that brought the HPW up to a 2:1 ratio). However, at the next vet visit the vet said she wasn't sure if the HPW was the problem and, also, after talking with some other people about it, I decided to stop adding the calcium supplement and wait and see what was wrong first before changing anything.

Sooo...now I'm back to the beginning.

I've been trying to switch Leda to BML, but she won't eat it. :\ I'm not giving up though.

Oh yeah, also, in my researching there was an article I read about soy(Wombaroo powder is made with soy protein) it said(I'll just quote it):

Quote:
Soybeans are high in phytic acid, present in the bran or hulls of all seeds. It's a substance that can block the uptake of essential minerals - calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc - in the intestinal tract.


Here's a link to the article: http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm

So, that's another thing that made me worry. :\

I think we'll get more for-sure answers once we have the results back from Woodrow because he's the best eater I've got and ALWAYS cleans the plate(you'd think I never put food in there to begin with! lol) and is the picture of health. So, if HIS calcium levels are low(or phos levels are high) then I think we'll know that it's diet. If they're normal, then we'll know that it's an underlying issue with Leda(and possibly Arby and Rosa as well).
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831823 - 09/02/09 02:46 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
TWilson
Unregistered


I know you are trying to find answers as to what is wrong with your gliders, Nicole. However, I really don't think HPW is what made your gliders sick. Too many people feed HPW and if it was that, you would not be the only one on here with sick gliders.

HLP does not just go away either, correct me if I'm wrong but you said one or two of your gliders looked like they couldn't walk, having seizures, etc. and then just a couple hours later they were fine. That doesn't happen with HLP, the gliders don't just get better like that.

I think it is something else entirely, something has lowered their immunue system, is causing them to not be able to absorb necessary vitamins and minerals too. You have had giardia, pouch infections, mastitis, and now blood work is showing calcium problems.

You said that you don't use any pesticides correct? I noticed in your pictures of your joeys, the ones taken outside, that your yard is right next to what looks like corn fields. Farmers use ALOT of pesticides and fertilizers, both of those are extremely toxic to animals.

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#831831 - 09/02/09 03:04 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Tammy, we're still doing more blood tests to find out more precisely what the cause is. If it IS the diet, then we should know by next week because then Woodrow, too, will have low calcium.

If it DOES turn out to be the HPW, then I'd guess that HPW has enough calcium in it that a normal glider, like Woodrow, can look healthy and happy, but if you've got a glider that is having joeys back to back or that gets sick for whatever reason, THEN you're going to start seeing the signs of the HLP. So, it's got just enough calcium for a glider to SURVIVE, but not enough to THRIVE.

Know what I mean.

There's nothing definitive yet though, so I'm going to wait until we get the results back next week before spazzing and putting my gliders on a different diet. roflmao The one I'm most worried about right now is Leda, so she WILL be getting a diet change if I can get the stubborn little lady to eat something else(for all it's possible faults, I can't deny that my gliders LOVE HPW!). My other gliders seem to be doing okay so I'm just going to up the calcium for now until we have more answers.

Yes, Crystal, the fruits/veggies have been balanced out to proper ratios. Woodrow and his mate eat EVERYTHING. Not even a chewed up scrap is left behind. tounge
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831848 - 09/02/09 03:23 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Guerita135]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


Whether HPW is the cause or not of Nicole's babies health issues.. HPW diet "as written" is about 0.9:1! With Veggies being 0.5:1 and fruits 1.2:1.

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#831858 - 09/02/09 03:35 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Guerita135]
TWilson
Unregistered


Glad to hear there is more testing being done on Leda's blood. Even if Woodrow has low calcium too, that still doesn't mean the diet is to blame.

If it were me, I would find out exactly what type/types of pesticides and fertilizers were being used on the farms nearby and how they could potentially effect my gliders.

I had 2 puppies that became extremely sick one day, they were fine that morning and by afternoon, they were on deaths door. One of them had a seizure and died that night at the vets office. The vet was convinced that their was a toxin involved but I had small kids and didn't use pesticides nor did I have anything toxic around. Turns out they got into my flower bed and ingested a little potting soil, the necropsy showed it and it was the fertilizer in the potting soil that killed one of my pups and almost took the other.

Also, another thing that I had on mind was the grain mites. How did you know exactly what the bugs were? Did you take any to your local agricultural center and have them idenified? And what was in your bedding that attracted them in the first place? Grain mites are attracted to grain, they get into dog food because of the corn from what I understand.

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#831867 - 09/02/09 03:46 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: ]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
BLG what vegis and fruits do you refer to?

HPW as I have always understood it gives each user the choice of their pick in fruits & vegis.
Some owners run to the local grocery & grab the frozen generic mixed vegi and mixed fruit for smoothies, others actually do pick & choose based on the nutritional needs of their gliders.
I used a fruit mix & a vegi mix that I prepare myself at home.

This is not a "no-brainer" diet, that's why I have always told people if you want simple no brainer diet go with BML. It is the ONLY diet that has been worked up so that you can just feed, no math, no thinking about it.

HPW, PP and all the others have ALWAYS required math & research to get ratios correct.
_________________________
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#831878 - 09/02/09 03:56 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Trigger]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


Nicole used exactly what Peggy recommends..

Frozen veggies from a bag... and frozen fruits from a bag..

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#831887 - 09/02/09 04:21 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: ]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Kris, that's what I used to use til Leda got sick...then I started looking closer at HPW and did the cal:phos ratios of it and discovered that it was lacking in calcium. So, I started feeding higher-calcium things.

I still use the frozen mix as a base or just plain for a couple days if I run out of veggies and need to buy and chop more. I use alot of papaya with the fruit mixes and for the veggies mixes I'll usually use the frozen veggies and and will add in a couple other veggies that are closer to 2:1 and then will freeze, crumble, and mix in a high-calcium green(spinach, collard, mustard, etc...).

Every recipe I've seen online for HPW shows it without any listed fruits/veggies that are supposed to be served with it and NONE of them mention HPW being low in calcium. Everyone has always said that HPW is already balanced, so all you've got to do is add in fruits/veggies that are a 2:1 cal:phos ratio. I'd always thought that was true til I did the analysis for myself.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831888 - 09/02/09 04:22 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: ]
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 10569
Loc: IL (St. Louis area)
Thank your answering my question. See, I knew the veggies were important for all the ratio business, but I had never heard anyone refer to the HPW diet as "calcium deficient" before. I admit, I usually just skim the diet threads as I've had no issues with my gliders since switching to HPW so I do miss some things.

While I am the first to admit my ignorance when it comes to some things concerning a sugar gliders diet, I somehow doubt HPW is the cause of this. I honestly don't understand why Woodrow having low calcium levels proves anything other than that he has low calcium levels. dunno I also don't think having two gliders with low calcium levels immediately points at the diet being the issue.

Have your gliders ever been on a different diet? Have you considered switching entirely? If you think the diet has been causing issues, why do you continue to feed it? dunno When I thought for even a second that my previous diet may not be providing my gliders with everything they needed, I switched. I did a little research, but I switched within a few days. I didn't need a full analysis of the diet to make that decision.

I'm hoping for the best for you and your suggie kids. hug2 Thank you for keeping us all updated.
_________________________
~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~

:grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:

>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<

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#831889 - 09/02/09 04:27 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Guerita135]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Tammy, I knew that they were mites when I first found them because they LOOKED like mites. I just didn't know what type until I found out about it when on a hedgehog forum and read someone talking about grain mites being a problem with mealworm farms when wheat bran is used. So, I looked them up on the internet and, sure enough, the pics showed the bugs that were in my farm. It doesn't take a vet or someone to be able to look at see that a pic matches the object in real life, lol.

As for pesticides, I've never seen the farmers spray anything. The only thing I've seen(or smelled, gag) then put in the fields is manure. And, I could be wrong, but I'd think there would be some type of law in place that would keep farmers from being able to spray harmful chemicals too close to homes... I have a neighbor whose house is even closer to the field them my own and I can't imagine it being legal to spray harmful chemicals like that without notifying homeowners nearby first.

When I was a little girl I lived in Kansas and my grandma lived in the country area and whenever they'd spray pesticides(they'd use an airplane to spray them) they would have to notify the homeowners and everyone had to stay in their house or leave their homes while the chemicals were being sprayed.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831895 - 09/02/09 04:38 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: StitchsMom]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Nicole used exactly what Peggy recommends..


Well lets see...Im not sure you can say I *Recommend* ANYTHING....

When I am asked what I feed I always tell people,

I feed the frozen bag of mixed veggies which contain corn, green beans, peas and carrots.

Frozen Fruits I feed Cantelope and Paypaya...

I have fed the SAME thing for FIVE years...NONE of my gliders have ANY calcium problems. Far from it actually, thank God. Do I say just because I feed this that is what everyone else should feed? NO...I do say to EVERYONE to do your research and feed what is right for you and your gliders.

Once again, I do NOT believe this is a diet issue at all, it is just the easiest thing to blame it on...

Just like Nicole stated she did not use any pesticides, yet when I talked to Alicia the day before yesterday on the phone, Alicia told me that Nicole told her at some point she had an exterminator out to her house...

IF it WERE the diet...we would see a LOT more cases of this not to mention we would have seen it way sooner than now as I know there are several that have been feeding it longer than Nicole has.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#831902 - 09/02/09 04:52 PM Part 2: There's something seriously wrong...
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Peggy, when you do the bloodwork on your gliders do you check the calcium AND the phosphorous or just the calcium? You told me in a PM once that you check the calcium levels, but mentioned nothing of the phosphorous.

My vet said that Leda's calcium levels were normal...but that was because her body was pulling the calcium it needed from her bones. If she hadn't checked the phosphorous levels then she wouldn't have ever known about the calcium being low.

If you HAVE done the calcium and phosphorous checks in the bloodwork, would you mind sending me the info on a couple of the blood checks so I can give the info to my vet to have something to compare to?

Originally Posted By: Srlb
Just like Nicole stated she did not use any pesticides, yet when I talked to Alicia the day before yesterday on the phone, Alicia told me that Nicole told her at some point she had an exterminator out to her house...


Either Alicia was thinking of someone else or you're confusing what you heard because I've NEVER had an exterminator at my house. Nor have I ever used any pesticides around my house.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#831907 - 09/02/09 05:07 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Srlb]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
I personally have discussed this diet here & in person. I have heard Peggy tell people WHAT she feeds & that she also CONSTANTLY has routine bloodwork & Xrays done on her gliders & has never had trouble with any.

I have never had her tell me in a post or in person NOT to pick my own fruits & vegis & calculate ratios. Nor does the diet state to buy the generic mixed stuff & just feed.

This diet has been all over the board for years. I researched every thing that anyone posted regarding it when I decided to switch to this diet. Found the analysis and started from the beginning looking at the fruits & vegis to balance the diet out with.
The info has always been here & in every thread started about it there have been some that do the math & some that don't.
The info it right here on GC. If I found it to check it our before I started feeding it then anyone can.

Can the HPW diet as a whole be lacking in calcium.....yep. But so can Suncoast, Pet Glider & all the others that you have to use fruits & vegis to balance.
It can also be a complete well balanced diet IF you work at it.
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#831913 - 09/02/09 05:13 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Srlb]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


I am NOT saying that diet is the cause.. All I am saying is the HPW diet is lacking in calcuim...

Peggy you being the "creator" of this diet.. dont you think when people say.."Hey Peggy what fruits and veggies to you feed with YOUR diet"... that, they would indeed take that as your recommendation? but hey...I could be wrong.

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#831918 - 09/02/09 05:19 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: ]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


In the diet link her on GC.. the one that everyone links to new people... you open up the HPW diet and it says nothing about it being low in calcium.. nothing about having to balance out your own ratios. When Peggy has been asked what veggies she feeds.. the answer is frozen veggies. So when a new person or just someone that doesnt research they say OK.. and that's what's fed.

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#831924 - 09/02/09 05:32 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Nicole, yes, I will contact Tim and ask him to shoot me over exactly what he looks for and a couple of my blood work test pages for you. May take a cople days though as he is in a conference.

Kris, first of all, I do not consider myself a *Creator* of any diet... the HPW powder was already being used in the PML diet. I could not get nor offer all the things that Pockets does/did and I took her advice, which I have in turn gave to everyone else, and I took the powder to MY vet and asked HIS OPINION and help in direction. When people asked me what I fed, I posted it. Period. I have and will never argue fuss or fight over diets.

I feel EVERY PERSON that owns ANY kind of pet is responsible for doing their OWN research and homework on what they feed just as we should all be doing for ourselves.

If AFTER doing the research YOURSELF and talking with YOUR vet that you TRUST, you feel it is the right diet for you and your gliders than all means feed it. If you dont like what it consists of, or feel it is lacking for your gliders, dont use it. Its really that simple.

Just because someone uses a certain food does NOT make them a scientist that created something...

Now back to what THIS topic is about (which is NOT about me or the health of MY gliders), Nicole, did they also do xrays?
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#831925 - 09/02/09 05:34 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Srlb]
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3570
Loc: Kansas City, MO
The main cause of calcium deficiency and any calcium problem is diet related. So instead of people to continue to come in here and get their feathers all ruffled lets have a full at discussion, if it isn't diet then what IS it? I guarantee you over 50% of people viewing HPW as a diet are going to frozen premixed bags of veggies and assorted fruits, even throwing in some papaya doesn't equal out the calcium levels. Of course the obvious answer is for everyone to take responsibility and do their own research and know what your putting into your gliders. But at the same time if you are displaying a diet as a veteran member people trust you at 100% your word. Just like no one questioned 2 tablespoons of bee pollen when apparently for years its been 1! But anyway back to the point.. if it isn't diet causing the calcium deficiency what is it?
_________________________
~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*

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#831928 - 09/02/09 05:40 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: Srlb]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


I am very sorry Peggy.. You have aways been called the creator of the HPW diet.. here on GC on the HPW link.. at the bottom it says... any questions.. you click it and an email comes up with your email addy... maybe that should be changed to someone that will step up to answer questions, give advise, help new people with balancing ratio's then.. just a thought.

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#831929 - 09/02/09 05:40 PM Re: Part 2: There's something seriously wrong... [Re: ]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
I had a glider with low calcium levels and high phosphorus levels (Holly, RIP). She had underlying issues. However I had bloodwork on 2 other "healthier" gliders and their levels were fine (Sugar and Spencer). I have 22 gliders and have fed HPW for 3 years I beleive.
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903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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