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#830475 - 08/31/09 08:23 AM Persistent Dehydration
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
I have a little one here who has us stumped, so I'm looking for any and all ideas.

Long story short - he is dehydrated pretty much every day and has been since coming to me in July.

Artex was relinquished because he became ill and his parent at the time "did not sign up for taking care of sick animals." Based on the symptoms she described, I had her meet me at the vet office to relinquish him.

vet visit one - he presented with droopy ears, a bad smell, extreme lethargy, crabbing and lunging/biting when he got up the energy to move, and severe dehydration.
Fecals were clear - no signs of ANYthing. We were unable to get urine for a UA due to the dehydration. It was clear that there was something wrong - SOMEthing was causing the dehydration. vet did not feel he was strong/healthy enough for much more testing at the time, and really did not think he would live much longer.
Sub-Q fluids were administered in the office and we decided to treat for a parasite and an infection just to try to get to the cause of the dehydration - suspecting that he probably had a UTI or some other infection.

So, he was prescribed Panacur and TMPS. Throughout the course of treatment, I had to administer sub-q fluids twice daily. Artex really perked up and began eating and playing like a normal little one.

Treatment ended. Artex is active (but sluggish early on) and no longer crabby/lunging/biting. He eats everything he is given every night.

He also drinks 2-4 OUNCES of liquid every night. Yet, he remains dehydrated. I have to sub-q 5-6 days per week/ 1-3 times per day depending upon his need.

Liquids I offer are filtered water, pedialyte, gatorade, and/or a 50/50 mix of gatorade/pedialyte and water. He always has fresh water in his water bottle. These liquids are being offered (and taken) in ADDITION to his regular fresh water.

Because the dehydration persisted, we returned to the vet. Again, fecals and UA are negative. We decide to culture the urine just to be sure, but still find nothing. We treat again just in case there is a low grade infection that we are not finding. This time treat with Clavamox.

No change. To this date (7 weeks later), Artex remains active (after fluids given) with a good appetite, drinks 2-4 ounces of liquid each night, eliminates well. Yet, he is dehydrated. He is sluggish when he first wakes, so I started waking him in the afternoon (between 2-4) and offering liquids or sub-quing if necessary. By doing this, I have been able to decrease the need to sub-q to about once per week.

Just to be sure I am not crazy or overlooking anything, I had Shawna give him a look over and tent test and all when she was visiting a few weeks ago. His dehydration ranges from mild to severe. Poor thing is tent tested more than any glider ever before. Shawna observed his dehydration at moderate-severe and also at mild.

We are headed to Tulsa for a visit with Dr. Walsh - his third vet visit. This time we hope to be able to draw blood. But, I don't know what else to do for the little guy or what else to look for. Any ideas or suggestions are very welcome. Shawna or one of my other friends can/will check in here and relay any ideas to me as I will be without internet for a the next few days (I will check in just before we leave, though).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or thoughts
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#830488 - 08/31/09 08:40 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
aww poor lil one. I don't really have any answers but I know what your going through. I had a similar situation with my Sally. My Sally got severly dehydrated once, and was near death. After getting her back and stable, fecal and urine tests were all ran. The only one we didn't do was blood, because she was a petite glider and dealing with the whole dehydration.

Basically everything always came back normal. With the dehydration, my vet explained to me that it was going to be something she will battle with the rest of her life. Not exactly sure why but he said once they go that severe and come back from it, their systems are just not the same. I had to do as you are with offering extra fluids throughout the day. I also switched to the veggie relish /fruit smoothie textures because they were a way to offer extra fluids through feeding.

I kick myself for not getting a necropsy done on Sally. Sally was my first and I just couldn't emotionally do it at the time.
_________________________
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~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


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#830492 - 08/31/09 08:44 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
shyshysdad
Unregistered


Problem reglating his temp maybe? Is thier a way to take temp reading?


Edited by shyshysdad (08/31/09 08:46 AM)

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#830519 - 08/31/09 09:44 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Val - if it were a child I would suspect something like Diabetes insipidus. Drinking 2-4 oz of water daily seems like a lot for a single glider. The thirst/dehydration and lethargy certainly fit. Does he appear to have an increased volume of urine output or possibly even pee in his pouch?

I'm not sure how you would determine urine volume other than by observation of his cage liner to see if it shows more moisture than you see in other glider cages.

One way you could measure his urine output would be to put him in a small cage for 24 hours. Weigh a disposable diaper or puppy pad DRY and use it under a grate in the cage. (the diaper or puppy pad would hold the urine and less would evaporate than just a paper liner.) You could do the same thing with paper towels but you would have to weigh and calculate every hour or so since they dry quickly. After 24 hours shake out all the dry waste the weigh it again and see if his output in gms is GREATER than the volume he is drinking and being given sub-Q.

added thought you may also want to weigh his pouch when clean and dry then again in the evening to see if he is actually peeing in the pouch.


Edited by OtteMom (08/31/09 09:45 AM)
Edit Reason: added thought
_________________________
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#830523 - 08/31/09 09:57 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: CandyOtte]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Diabetes was my first thought too.

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#830552 - 08/31/09 10:58 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
He is a very happy baby. Plays and runs and eats like mad, but my first day there, he was severly dehydrated, but the next day almost not at all, the next day mild. It's strange. How would you even treat diabetes in a glider?
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#830565 - 08/31/09 11:17 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: USMom]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Going in to see Tim today Val at 2, will print out your post and take it to him and see what he thinks. Will call you later after I leave there and let you know what he says. thumb
_________________________
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#831001 - 08/31/09 11:35 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Srlb]
Jen_S
Unregistered


Diabetes and/or kidney issues come to mind for me. This sounds like a cat with renal disease just in that he is unable to maintain his own hydration. I'll be praying for this little one though!

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#831008 - 09/01/09 12:16 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ]
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered


The only thing I can think of that would cause persistent dehydration and extreme thirst/lethargy is diabetes. Or at least pancreatic malfunction... possibly pancreatic cancer? I would definately have a CBC done this next visit. I would be very interested to see what his blood sugar and white cell counts are. Too bad there's no such thing as a glider endocrinologist... it seriously sounds endocrine system related.

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#831094 - 09/01/09 08:19 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ]
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 7356
Loc: Austin, TX
Val is in Tulsa today, taking him in, I think they are going to be doing blood work, but can't remember for sure. I'll let you know what I find out, or I'm sure she will, too.
_________________________
Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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#831391 - 09/01/09 07:26 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: USMom]
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 712
Loc: Red Oak Texas
IT sounds like Kidney disease, which can be caused by Diabetes , or some other hormonal imbalance.
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#831399 - 09/01/09 07:45 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: anjill_tree]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
I think Bourbon is the expert of dehydration. You might try asking her. Many prayers being sent for this little one! Hope to hear an update soon!
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#831442 - 09/01/09 08:49 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: suggiemom1980]
Paige
Unregistered


I'm Not much help at all right now, but you have my prayers.

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#831452 - 09/01/09 09:27 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ]
shyshysdad
Unregistered


I still say look at the body heat cause we all no gliders have a issue controling thier body heat.
if shes staying to hot =dehydration so to try to make up for it shes drinking extra
non control yet she stays dehydraed and still she drinks alot has to be body contol and shes drinking all that water to counter the sweating.
Just a guess but it makes sence to me on what ive read
most everything mentioned has tell tell signs
this wouldnt cause shes trying to control her body temp by other means its well worth looking into and could be taken care of by a fan or coolar room.
cant cost must to montor her body temp I'm sure
I'm just trying to think outside the box noing your knowlage of gliders I think thats whats needed here.
good luck to you both keep us updated.

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#832084 - 09/02/09 09:40 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Well, we had our vet visit.

It was very depressing. Despite the fact that Artex was dehydrated in the vet's office and that fecals, UA AND blood were tested, STILL we have no answers.
All the blood levels were good except BUN, which we expected, cause he is, afterall, dehydrated. Liver values, renal values, glucose levels, calcium, etc.... all fine.

*sigh* so, I will continue to treat him as I have been and test again in a few weeks. Dr. Walsh still thinks that there is some kidney involvement, so wants me to switch him to a low protein diet and continue to provide fluids as necessary.

I so wish we had found SOMEthing - how depressing.
On another note, it was a super fantastic weekend for the SUGAR group - a lot of exciting things and progress for us. So, that helps take away the disappointment.
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#833922 - 09/06/09 12:37 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
sandbat Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 633
Loc: Dallas, TX
I am so sorry, Val! I hope that something can be found to help this little guy out.

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#833930 - 09/06/09 01:36 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: sandbat]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
How is Artex doing?
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#833963 - 09/06/09 08:19 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Gizmogirl]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Artex is about the same. He is sweet, active, curious, funny and perfect, except for the dehydration every day.

He is only about 9 months old, so it is heartbreaking to not be able to find what is wrong with him. He is drinking slightly less each day and the dehydration is not worse, so maybe that is a good thing. We started the low protein diet and he is eating it great.

I am working to find him a cage mate and will be keeping him here until we find some answers and get him well.
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#833979 - 09/06/09 09:09 AM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
Thanks for the update.

Staying dehydrated is strange. Did you try to email different vets to get different opinions? I would love to know what is the cause of this.

Poor little Artex. I'll keep him close to my heart.
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#834323 - 09/06/09 11:17 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Gizmogirl]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


Hey Val,
did you ever call Bourbon?... Baybe had severe dehydration issue for a couple of years! Bourbon might really be some help to you and this little one!

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#836562 - 09/11/09 01:50 PM Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
How is Artex doing?
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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