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#843537 - 09/24/09 10:29 AM Jesters blood work
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Here is the blood work on Jester. Jester was OOP 6-24-2009 which made him 12-1/2 weeks OOP the day he had this done.

Tammy I got this done so you would have a baseline for Jester. We also found out that this was the FIRST time we have gotten blood work done on a glider this age before. They have all been older.

http://i85.servimg.com/u/f85/11/85/96/34/jester26.jpg
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Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#843547 - 09/24/09 10:47 AM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1732
Loc: Utah
Peggy this shows normal values for a glider right? If so would you mind me giving this to my vet so that he has a comparison when he is doing blood work on my gliders.

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#843557 - 09/24/09 11:10 AM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: silverwolf]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Sliverwolf, there is Merck Veterinary Handbook that vets have access to. Here is the levels for a sugar glider out of that manual. THIS is what your vet needs.

Sugar glider blood work

There were a couple numbers on Jesters that were *off* a bit, but Tim seems to think it is because he is young as most young animals will show *off* numbers in some areas until they get older. He looked through all this other blood work papers when he seen there was a difference, and that is what raised his awareness to the fact we have never tested one at this age before.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#843566 - 09/24/09 11:50 AM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
Avri
Unregistered


Peggy - looking at the Calcium - Phosphorus spread. Jester looks like he's on the good side of the spread (high calcium and low phos) - you better be careful, if you keep this up he will definitely start growing clown

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#843576 - 09/24/09 12:04 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Peggy...
Could you tell us just what CPK is?

Merek has the ranges as

CPK 210-589 U/L 210-589 U/L

Jesters is at

CPK 2547 *No Species U/L

I have no idea what CPK is but just looking at Jester's and then at Merek, this difference really jumped out.
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But I'd of had to miss the dance


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#843590 - 09/24/09 12:21 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Dancing]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Teresa, can I tell you no I can not, but I will ask Tim to write it out. He did say that along with the Alkaline Phosphatase numbers the CPK numbers are what jumped out at him. That is when he started looking up all the other gliders blood work he has there, those that he has done himself and those that were sent to him and seen the numbers arent ever like that. Compared to other young animals, he said even in dolphins, those numbers are higher. That is also when he realized that we had never done a glider at 12 weeks before.

Another interesting thing learned.

Just like with Carmella, when I first brought her home, I took her in and we also did xrays (but not blood work) and her bones looked like they were not quite formed all the way in one of the shoulder areas. We have since done her again, and she is perfect as can be.

I am curious to see if anyone else out there may have done their gliders blood work at such a young age. If not, than when Dayana turns 12 weeks, we will also have hers done.

When I hear back from Tim on it, I will be sure to post his answer here. He is not in the office today, but will be tomorrow I believe.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#843609 - 09/24/09 12:47 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Another thing, how big was Jester when this was done? Weight?

I have a joey right now that is a TANK. His name is Julian but I need to change it to Sherman. At 25 days oop he was at 52 grams. He keeps on this way and a blood test at a young age isn't as far of a stretch.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#843618 - 09/24/09 01:04 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Dancing]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


Peggy.. I had one of my guys done at 12 weeks too well 12 weeks and like 4 days... I'll call over and have them pull that and see what his was.

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#843654 - 09/24/09 02:09 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: ]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Well, in people (so I assume it is the same in gliders) CPK or CK stands for creatine kinase (spelling?) - it tells you how well the kidneys are functioning. This is one of the primary levels I have checked with my lupus bloodwork every year, that is the only reason I know this.
IF I remember right, a low number would indicate renal disease, but a high number can indicate injury - esp. to muscles. So, maybe it is higher in gliders that are still developing? I'm just guessing here, but I do KNOW that CPK is a kidney level.
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#843661 - 09/24/09 02:35 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
interesting, thank you Val. If that is the case, let's really hope it is because the youngster is still developing.

Injury to muscles? what muscles if the test shows kidney function?

Hate how one answer only leads to more questions.

I want to be 5 yrs old where the world is all in black and white absolutes. Just seemed so much easier then.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#843717 - 09/24/09 04:13 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Peggy.. I had one of my guys done at 12 weeks too well 12 weeks and like 4 days... I'll call over and have them pull that and see what his was.


Thanks Kris, I would appreciate that very much, just to make sure we dont have to worry that it may be anything else.

Val thank you for that.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#843720 - 09/24/09 04:14 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Maybe not so much injury, but possibly if the muscles are still growing maybe?? dunno
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#843788 - 09/24/09 06:23 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
That's odd...my vet wouldn't let me test Wilson, who is now 6 months old, because she said his phos levels would be high from being young and still growing. :\

I wonder why that is since your boy seems to have LOW phos levels. Hmmm...

Maybe it doesn't apply to gliders? Or perhaps their "growing stage" ends/slows alot sooner then other animals?

I'll have to print our your results and bring them to her when I get the other gliders done so I can see what she thinks cause I'd like to get some of the youngins tested as well.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#843789 - 09/24/09 06:24 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Guerita135]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
BTW, Peggy, how much blood does your vet draw to do the bloodwork? My vet couldn't even get enough blood on Leda the first time and she was 70g. I can't imagine how they'd get enough blood on a 12 week old joey(unless he's a big boy?).
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#843817 - 09/24/09 07:26 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Guerita135]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Teresa, sorry wasnt ignoring you but I was at work while trying to keep up on this.

Jesters blood work was done on Monday. He weighs 70grams.

Nicole, Tristan goes by the weight of the glider as to how much he takes. I know he told me that he did not get enough from Jester to check the white blood cells or the red blood cells because he is too small still. He got more from Sammie, (those results should be in soon, if they didnt come in today).

Was Leda sick the first time they tried to get blood from her? If Im not mistaken it is very hard if not impossible to get blood or at least a good amount of blood if an animal is dehydrated??

But then again, Tim wont even put a glider under unless they weigh in at least 60grams unless he has to.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#843833 - 09/24/09 07:48 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered


I missed them today.. left a message for them so they should call me in the am with the numbers..

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#843848 - 09/24/09 08:14 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: ]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
CPK is Creatnine Phosphokinase. In People (Merck) it is usually elevated following a heart attack or muscle injury. It is also elevated in muscular distrophy and some autoimmune muscle diseases.

It will be interesting to see what Dr. Tristan has to say about the significance in gliders.
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#844002 - 09/24/09 11:34 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: CandyOtte]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Yeah, Leda was sick the first time. I guess that's why she couldn't get much.
_________________________
~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#844098 - 09/25/09 09:07 AM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Guerita135]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Got a response from Tim this morning:

Quote:
Its very common in exotics for the CPK to be elevated like that. CPK comes from muscle, liver, heart, kidney. The most common and frequent elevation is due to muscle damage during stress of capture, restraint, or excitability during sedation. That's why you can never use one of these parameters to evaluate the patient. Its like looking at a dogs swollen leg, thinking it primarily a leg problem and not hearing that grade 6/6 murmur from the heart failure that is causing pitting edema in the leg from no circulation.
Nothing to worry about.
Tim
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#844206 - 09/25/09 01:12 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Thanks for sharing Tim's reply. I can see where an active little glider could have such changes due to being restrained/stressed during the process of just the blood draw.
_________________________
Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#844226 - 09/25/09 01:31 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: CandyOtte]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Candy, Jester was also neutered the same day. thumb
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#844257 - 09/25/09 02:26 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Sooooo are there pictures of Jester floating around here some where? And is Jester lucky enough to be one of Tammy's gliders?
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#844269 - 09/25/09 03:01 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: hushpuppy]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Here ya go Miss Anita. And yepper, this is Miss Tammys little boy. She gets to pick him up Next Friday!! We are heading to Florida!! (VERY short trip though...for now)
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#844277 - 09/25/09 03:17 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Srlb]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
Peggy he is gorgeous, what color is he. I though WFB but saw bars, is he mo? His face & head are so white.
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#844284 - 09/25/09 03:30 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Trigger]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Yepper, he IS a mosaic. grin

He is out of Meadow and Snuggle!!
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love« Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#844289 - 09/25/09 03:46 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: CandyOtte]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: OtteMom
Thanks for sharing Tim's reply. I can see where an active little glider could have such changes due to being restrained/stressed during the process of just the blood draw.


Too true and the gliders are already a little stressed being out of their home comfort zone.

This brings me to something I was going to say in another thread but it closed. There was a mention that gliders do not have to be sedated or anaethetised for blood draws. Now all the vets here working with possums and gliders (well all native wildlife actually!) always anaethatise their animals and not just to make it easy for blood draw which of course it does. The real reason is the excitement response mediated by "fight-or-flight" hormones that are secreted by the adrenal glands in response to stress in a restrained, concious animal can actually change the haematalogical values.

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#844332 - 09/25/09 05:38 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: Marz]
Avri
Unregistered


Peggy - If Tammy falls on her head and decides she doesn't want him, I can certainly skip a football game ;-)

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#844341 - 09/25/09 06:05 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: ]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Or should Tammy just happen to bring Jester to the Florida gathering on the 10th...well, I might need to bring an extra pouch. Just in case. exclamation
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#844349 - 09/25/09 06:29 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: hushpuppy]
Avri
Unregistered


@Hushpuppy

I thought it was the 17th?

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#844361 - 09/25/09 07:10 PM Re: Jesters blood work [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5916
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Well if so Nita will lie in wait till Jester shows up smile
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