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#84421 - 02/22/06 05:39 AM Calcium intake for gliders in the wild
Anonymous
Unregistered


Knowing that crickets and mealworms have a bad Ca/P ratio, most fruits/veggies have a bad Ca/P ratio too, my question is: how do gliders, in the wild, get enough calcium? Acacia gum?

ganesh

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#84422 - 02/22/06 08:13 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lizards, eggs,..... insects, nectar, pollen, manna, eucalyptus and lots of fruits have calcium in them, also they eat an small vertebrates, .......these are some.

Someone else can help soon........

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#84423 - 02/22/06 08:47 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
There are a lot of possibalities but a wild gliders diet varies according to the seasons and regions. So there are no studies that can actully tell you the calcium sources or a gliders requirements for calcium or vitamin d.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#84424 - 02/22/06 09:15 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually, I was asking that question because insects have low Ca/P ratios, fruits/veggies low too. Nectar, pollen, manna, vertabrates: I have no idea <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And was wondering that maybe, they do not require as much calcium as we think, or maybe they can make profit from very little amounts of calcium. Or maybe neither of them which is why they tend to die quite young in the wild. I really don't know.

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#84425 - 02/22/06 09:38 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


That is a good question and I don't know an answer for you. All I know is they live a lot longer when we feed them verses when they are in the wild ha-ha <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#84426 - 02/22/06 09:55 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


That's all I know myself <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#84427 - 02/22/06 11:57 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


we know they need calcium because a few years ago when people where not giving gilders more calicum alot were being diagnosed with HLP (Hind Leg Peralayisis sp??) Since we have upped their calcium we don't see HLP very offten. I do see if from time to time from gliders that are not on a good diet with enough calcium though.

I don't know the answer to your questions, but I know they do eat eggs and baby birds or rodents which are high in calcium as well. But like Charlie said their diet varries from season to season.

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#84428 - 02/22/06 02:35 PM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: RSXTC]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
It is true that we now add calcium and vitamins to the captive diet. But this may not be the reason for the reduction in HLP. Better balanced diets could very well be the reason for healthier gliders. Nocturnal creatures metabolize food much different from animals that forage during the daylight hours. It is not a proven fact that nocturnal animals need to be subsidized with vitamins and calcium including vitamin d. Consider fruit bats and moles that live underground and eat no insects or foods that provide calcium or vitamin d. Are we sure that gliders need these things added to their diets? Or is this just an assumption based on requirements for people and other animals?
More research is needed. We could very well be hurting our gliders by giving them un-necessary supplements.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#84429 - 02/23/06 05:59 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is exactly what I was thinking but you expressed it better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Vitamin D for example: my vet said no study had been done to know precisely how nocturnal animal would get their vitamin D since they cannot process it from the sunlight. It is assumed they process it from the food they eat (small mammals if that's part of their diet) and that probably, they don't need as much vitamin as other daytime animals.

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#84430 - 02/23/06 06:58 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
This is a concern of mine too. One would think that a healthy diet would provide enough vitamins. I also let my gliders run wild (supervised) often in a safe room with things to climb and soft landings - exercise should help to keep their bones strong. Is there a track record among breeders/owners that supplements have proven to keep their gliders long-lived or is this type of pet too new to tell? I wonder if there's an edible bonemeal that would add calcium without being artificial? I'll look it up. Moira (My gliders love papaya - fresh or baby food - and it has a great CA:P ratio, according to my reading.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/read.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Moira & Matty & my zoo

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#84431 - 02/23/06 07:49 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You can grate some cuttlebone on top of the food: it's pure calcium <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My gliders don't like it though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#84432 - 02/23/06 08:32 AM Re: Calcium intake for gliders in the wild [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Too much calcium will cause imbalance as well as not enough. What this means is that for every gram of phosphorus ingested in your suggies diet, their body must match that with another gram of calcium before the phosphorus can be absorbed through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. If the required calcium is not available from the diet, the body will obtain it from wherever it can---such as from the storage depots in the bones. Just because your Glider is exercising doesn't necessarily always mean that this will be corrected if there is an imbalance. You don't want calcium being removed from and decreasing bone integrity, hence HLP.

The purpose of calculating such a ratio is to make sure that for every gram of phosphorus you're feeding, you're feeding AT LEAST an equal amount of calcium (a 1:1 ratio or better), so that calcium isn't being continually mobilized from bones. Most nutritionists recommend that the ideal levels are somewhere between 1.2-2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus. That goes for the entire dietary intake, not just some items, you have to have an overall balance. Just my .o2... sorry didn't mean to sound fiesty......... just trying to clarify what I think you're saying about baby foods and cuttlebones..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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