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#84613 - 02/23/06 08:27 AM Fructose and Liver Problems
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
I have been doing some reading on Hereditary Fructose Intolerance and Fructose Malabsorption. Now I am wondering if this could have anything to do with all the liver problems we are seeing in gliders. Both vegetables and fruits contain fructose and I wonder if these items are really safe for gliders. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> As far as I know a wild glider's diet does not consist of vegetables and they do not eat much fruit. Maybe the sugar part of their name is misleading. Excess fructose will build up fat around the liver and can lead to enlargement of the liver. I realize that the liver has multiple functions and there are many things that can cause it damage including diseases. But this is something that has me wondering. Fructose can have some very adverse effects on some people and maybe even do worse things to gliders.
Charlie H
_________________________
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#84614 - 02/23/06 09:17 AM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow!! That is very interesting! sounds like that could be the problem! I will mention that to my vet and see her idea on that theory!

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#84615 - 02/23/06 10:35 AM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree that this should be a concern, as well. Having either of these this could possibly be why some calcium levels are depleted in our beloved suggies, as well as having some gastrointestinal issues and organ failures. I know what your saying Charlie, but most of the research was done using human studies, the Fructose Intolerance is Hereditary; where the enzyme for breaking down Fructose is not produced, and rare. However, the Fructose Malabsorption is another story, much more common and affects about 30% of people, where certain cells on the surface of the intestine are not available to assist the digestive process.... heck I probably have that!!!! ..... I am one to believe that this can also effect animals, too.
This is another great wonder... good that you always make us think, Charlie!!!

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#84616 - 02/23/06 11:58 AM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Sue1 Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 131
What does a wild glider's diet consist of? I know they eat insects, eggs, lizzards, acacia gum, and small birds. But what else? Do we know what the animal sanctuaries in Australia feed their gliders? How old are the oldest pet gliders -- and what diet do they eat? Whenever I read a posting on someone's glider dying, I wonder if diet could be involved -- without our knowing it. I know suggie owners, or any pet owner for that matter, would do everything they can to give their pets the best health possible. But, I read about so many young gliders dying -- and wonder. Is there a place on GC where we can see the information gathered in the death data base? I wasn't able to go to the SGGA, so I have no idea what's been found so far. Sorry to sound so stupid, but I really appreciate your research. Also, are there fruits and veggies with a lower level of fructose than others?

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#84617 - 02/23/06 12:54 PM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Interesting. I've never read about the effects of fructose on the liver so I don't have much to offer on that.

I would have to say that in my opinion, we do feed gliders too many fruits and they get quite a bit more sugar than they need in the way of fructose, glucose, etc. The problem is, that most gliders are spoiled, and getting them to eat much without generously dosing their food with fruit products or honey is tricky. I suppose so is getting a child to eat their vegetables!

From what I know, in the wild, sugars compose a minor portion of their diet. It comes in the way of nectar and some sugars come from pollen.

I haven't personally had any issues with liver related problems in my own gliders yet, but if anything was to cause the liver problems, I'd be more likely to put excess vitamins as my top suspect. I guess the only way to know is for people to get proper necropsies done on their gliders if they should pass away.

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#84618 - 02/23/06 01:17 PM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1382
Loc: Kentucky
High sugars cause liver enlargement in people. I had 1/3 of mine removed while under surgery for other diabetic problems.

Wow..talk about not seeing the forest for the trees here. Now I'm concerned about this big time. My liver was so enlarged and not working properly..and is still enlarged to a degree from the brittle diabetes.

This could be happening to gliders?
_________________________
Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#84619 - 02/23/06 02:36 PM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16743
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
High sugars cause liver enlargement in people

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

This is very true as my husband is also a diabetic however, what we need to stop and think is the problem does NOT start with the liver, it starts in the pancreas....this is one of the problems we are having with necropsies...they hear the liver is enlarged or bad and settle for that answer, where ALL the organs need to be sent off to see what has offset the liver problems. Just as if a glider is fed too much fat, it first affects the heart function which then slows or constricts the function of the liver, which then makes it look like the liver is the problem...even a bacteria infection can cause the liver function to decrease...

sooo much to learn.....as a wise person once said to me, when one answer is found a thousand more questions come up...

we need more research and more organs and tissues sent out even though it is one of the hardest things to do...
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

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#84620 - 02/23/06 07:56 PM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Peggy, you are so right. When a glider dies and examined we need professional people who will look at the overall condition of the glider. Too often we just get a rather technical sounding response that bottom line tells us that the glider died from liver disease. There are a 1000 things that could cause problems with the liver. We need more in depth studies for the cause of death.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#84621 - 02/23/06 10:49 PM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3058
Loc: u.s.a.
ive been e mailing ausstralian vets for many months now. their gliders live into their late teens no problems i asked one vet who bred gliders what did he feed them. they said fruits veggies and wombaroo high protein supplement sprinkled on the fruit intermitantly and somedays boiled egg. and they use a light to attract months and bugs into their cage so the gliders can catch them. they also told me no turkey a little yogurt is fine. they use corn for veggies. and hard branches for their teeth they need hard food i am told to prevent tooth decay. when i asked them did they ever hear of the leadbeaters diet. and i told them we supplement here with calcium. they say theres no need for supplements if given a good variety in diet and the wombaroo hp has all the vitamins in it. i get told the same from all the vets and rehabers in aussie land. the tarango zoo uses a childrens multi vitamin for supplementation. which leads me to beleive are we overdosing them with supplements and protein. i tell them about all the sick gliders here they also beleive its the inbreeding to develop the colors which would require a jail sentence in australia.

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#84622 - 02/24/06 03:16 AM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't understand how a trend in illnesses, which are not necessarily any more prevalent in the color lines than in the grey population, could be attributed to inbreeding. The populations of the captive gliders in Australia experience closed genetic pools of their own. Our populations here I don't believe are closed enough and lacking in genetic diversity which would cause an inbreeding depression that increases the manifestation of negative genetic related illnesses. If anything, our populations here might even have a greater genetic diversity than those in Australia.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

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#84623 - 02/24/06 06:43 AM Re: Fructose and Liver Problems [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Ern I think you are absolutely correct in thinking that we have a wider based gene pool. Australian wild gliders live in colonies and left to their own are more likely to in-breed. The gliders in the US were originally from Australia but the exotic animal importers started importing them from Indonesia and New Guinea. Australia stopped exporting gliders but the gliders kept coming from the other two countries. This is how the mega breeders got much of their breeding stocdk and many glider brokers supplied pet shops all over the US. There is a lot about the exotic animal trade that the public is not aware of. Even the zoos are involved in the sale and trade of exotic animals.

One thing to consider though is that we don't really know what we have created by mixing the gliders from three different countries. But I would dare say that the gene pool of captive gliders in the US is much broader than the gene pool in Australia.

On a side note: One of the students at a leading university contacted one of the major zoos in Australia a few years ago inquing about glider illnesses. The vet at the zoo told her they did not know a lot about the illnesses of gliders. He said that gliders were in such abundance in Australia that if one died they just replaced it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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