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#848924 - 10/06/09 01:42 PM Just a thought here.... (*vit A, beta car)
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I also posted this on another forum as I am really interested in everyone's thoughts on this:

I am still tweaking my homemade glider "nectar" trying to make the perfect food (LOL)and in doing some research on vitamins and food sources, I came across some info on the effects of overdosing on certain vitamins. One of the symptoms of overdosing on vitamin A are bone fractures. Wonder if EVER the dreaded HLP and the onset of easily broken bones may be because of too much vit a as opposed to not enough calcium. Especially in those fuzzies that LOVE sweet potatoe.
just a thought.

also read about the dreaded HLP may not be because of a lack of calcium or improper ratios, but just too much phosphorous. You can have a good ratio but overall have way too much phosphorous.

Just a thought...


Edited by sugarlope (01/09/10 11:53 PM)
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#848925 - 10/06/09 01:46 PM Re: Just a thought here.... [Re: JillMarie]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Those are great points to consider, JillMarie. smile

I know there was a discussion a few months ago about the cal/phos ratio concern (as you stated above). I will see if I can dig it up.
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#848930 - 10/06/09 01:51 PM Re: Just a thought here.... [Re: sugarlope]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#849069 - 10/06/09 09:20 PM Re: Just a thought here.... [Re: sugarlope]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any guidelines specific to Sugar Gliders for the ideal amounts (high/low range) of various nutrients they need on an average daily basis.

I do feel folks put too much emphasis on the ratio and not enough on the actual amounts of Calcium and Phosphorus.

I have chosen to take the middle road approach and developed my own glider diet that has calcium and phosphorus amounts between the low end amounts in HPW and the high end amounts of BLM. Gliders do well on both diets but I am concerned about the heavy dose of reptile calcium suppliments in BML so that the high phosphorus Mixed Vegetables (mostly corn & peas) can be fed daily.
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& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

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#849108 - 10/06/09 11:55 PM Re: Just a thought here.... [Re: CandyOtte]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I had a very lengthy discussion with Bourbon about Vit A and why she chose the vitamins she did for BML.

See, there is a very real problem with Vit A toxicity. When too much Vit A is taken in, it is stored in the liver "gunking" it up (as it were). This stored Vit A can then reach toxic levels.

Beta Carotene on the other hand works differently. When there is a need for Vit A, the body converts the beta carotene into the amount of Vit A needed and passes the rest of the beta carotene through the digestive system instead of storing it.

Each vit/mineral needs to be studied to see what it is needed for and how the body uses it as well as how it interacts with other vits/minerals. Example, iron can inhibit the absorption of calcium.

(and the Herptivite vitamins used in BML containes beta carotene instead of Vit A, which is one of the reasons it was chosen).
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Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

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The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#849143 - 10/07/09 01:27 AM Re: Just a thought here.... [Re: Dancing]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: Dancing
I had a very lengthy discussion with Bourbon


Aren't ALL discussions with Bourbon lengthy? And you, also, for that matter, Ms Dancing! That must have been some sort of marathon discussion!

roflmao

Sorry - I couldn't resist. Back to the topic.


:fall:

I crack myself up.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#849154 - 10/07/09 01:57 AM Re: Just a thought here.... [Re: ValkyrieMome]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I read an article about why reptile vitamins are not proper for mammals....cant seem to locate it now. One of the problems though, and I include myself in this, we do research on how a body uses a specific vitamin or mineral, or assume because WE need a specific one, everything does, and utilizes it the same way. Unfortunately this wont be entirely accurate as every animal needs different nutrients and will use those nutrients (as in processing them to use) differently. But its the best we can do right now. With all these "vets" we see on websites doing "research" into glider diets. Oh my I have probably said this a million times.... but until I can go back to college (ROFL)and get a degree in chemistry I will keep begging someone else in the field already to do it.....why doesnt soemone get some euc sap and acacia sap and insect "honeydew" and run an analysis on THAT to see what it contains nutritionally and then make a glider diet that exactly copies it? *heavy sigh* WHEN I publish my book and get famous and rich I will hire someone to do it, until then, hints and begging are all I can do. Have contacted a few people on this, but no luck so far. Perhaps some of you on here that know people in the field could suggest it. All those zoo people and vets everyone talks about on here.
_________________________
:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!

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#849156 - 10/07/09 02:36 AM Re: Just a thought here.... [Re: JillMarie]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Alden, you think I"M bad? Bourbon and my son stayed up ALL NIGHT on the phone! Yes, my son spent the night with Bourbon! Now that was a marathon. Even I gave up and went to bed!

Seriously though, that was one of my first "real" conversations with Bourbon and took place at the Ohio SGGA. Most excellent conversation too.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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