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#8494 - 07/24/03 06:21 PM Too much protein?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quinn definitely likes her bugs. Yesterday she had 1 grasshopper, 2 crickets, and 2 mealworms (the little ones). Today she had 1 grasshopper, 3 crickets, and about 5 mealworms (she had a few while I was trimming her nails).
My question is, is that too much protein? Will that make her sick? And how much protein is too much protein?

Thanks!

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#8495 - 07/25/03 12:54 AM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm sorry to bump this up, but I'm worried that I'm harming my girl.

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#8496 - 07/25/03 01:38 AM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Glider Greetings: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

It depends on what else you are feeding her. Is she on a recognized diet??? What does her regular daily diet consist of?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
[/]

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#8497 - 07/25/03 09:27 AM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, she has ZooKeeper's Secret as her staple food. Yogurt, chicken babyfood, sliced up apples (or grapes) and a vitamin icecube (the recipe Lisa recommends)

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#8498 - 07/25/03 02:44 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The following is what Lisa recommends for a protien source... it's on a four day rotation offering only one protien item a day from their recommended list. If you are using the Suncoast diet you need to follow it as written. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Protein

Offered on a four day rotation with one item offered from the following list daily:

Gut loaded mealworms - Feed 10-12 small, 7-10 medium, or 3-5 large mealworms per glider

Gut loaded crickets - Feed 3-5 crickets per sugar glider

Boiled eggs (without shells) mixed with high protein/low sugar cereal (like corn flakes or Special K) and mixed with either honey or apple juice. One heaping tablespoon is offered per 2 sugar gliders.

Yogurt (blueberry or peach) - 1 heaping tablespoon is offered per 2 sugar gliders

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

However if your glider likes insects that much... you can go ahead and give one or two a day for a treat on the days that you aren't feeding exclusively insects for the protien source.

If you have any more questions about the Suncoast diet, feel free to ask us or email Lisa []lisa@sugar-gliders.com[/] she's always happy to help anyone!

Note: In addition to apples, other GREAT fruits to feed your glider are: berries, kiwi, bananas, and melons. I didn't see you mention that you fed any vegetables, those are a part of Lisa's diet as well. Veggies that are good to feed are: peas, carrots, green beans, and sugar snap peas. Remember gliders like variety! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good Luck!

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#8499 - 07/25/03 08:29 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you so much for your reply Courtney!!!

P.S. we alternate fruit from apples, grapes, cantelope, watermelon, and raisins. And for veggies we feed them carrots, brocolli, and sweet-potato. Thank you for the veggie suggestion!

P.P.S. I would e-mail Lisa, but I do it all the time. That's why I thought it would be best to bring it to the board. Thank you for your help again! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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#8500 - 07/26/03 03:04 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Don't worry, you can't have too much protein. They consume huge quantities of insects in the wild. In fact, sugar gliders have evolved an elongated fourth digit to help them pull out insects hiding in tree bark. It is estimated that a single colony will eat up to 100 pounds of insects annualy. When the insects are plentiful in the spring and summer, they definitely prefer them as their number one food choice, even when sap and nectar is readily available. One thing you have to make sure of though is that they are getting their vitamins and calcium in their diet.

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#8501 - 07/27/03 12:31 AM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


[:"blue"] Glider Greetings: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Don't worry, you can't have too much protein.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]

There are some pretty high powered people who would disagree with that statement.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
This is from Dr. Ellen Dierenfeld. Dr. Dierenfeld received her Ph.D. in Animal Nutrition from Cornell University after studying ecological nutrition of several species in Australia. She is the head of the Department of Wildlife Nutrition for the Wildlife Conservation Society and the Bronx Zoo.

Lucy sent me the link to this thread, and I have the following comments:


Glider anatomy and Protein Needs
Letís start with the anatomy of a glider. Gliders are not insectivores, but gummivores. Their anatomy, their behavior, and their physiology support this. This is the feeding category that best describes them. What this means in part is that they are not designed to eat a diet high in insect protein, and/or only limited amounts of animal-based protein. To do otherwise may be problematic for them.

But they do need some protein Ė all animals do. This can be achieved by feeding small amounts of foods high in protein, or moderate amounts of food containing moderate amounts of protein. The thing to remember about protein (and all food intake) is that it needs to be must be balanced against energy (which is measured in calories). This is what drives appetite. All nutrient intake needs to be balanced against calories, and our gliders donít require very many calories. They are tiny, they are marsupials, and both aspects keep the overall requirement for energy low

The insects we are able to feed in captivity Ė crickets, mealworms, waxworms Ė have repeatedly been shown to be imbalanced in nutritional value (as have the vast majority of insects in nature). While they are appetizing to gliders, they can quickly throw off the nutritional balance needed. Feeding healthy, and preferably supplemented, insects can be fine in small amounts, especially in conjunction with a good, balanced diet that meets their optimal health and nutrition needs.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]

This is the entire POST.


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
(Most of the following was taken from Dr. Dierenfeld's lecture at the SGGA as well as her notes.)
Gliders have very low protein requirements. ...... In a field trial, gliders chose to eat about 1.3 g of protein a day. Considering a glider weighs about 90-100g, that is a very small amount! Gliders can digest more protein (or rather, their gut can pass it through their system without too much difficulty) but too much protein can cause kidney disease and slow growth. What amount is too much? I don't know, and I don't think anyone else really knows, but I think it's safe to say that protein isn't the main part of a glider's diet.......

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> [:"blue"]

This the entire POST.


Another problem is that most insects commonly fed to gliders are pretty high in fat. A wild glider may be able to burn off all of the fat calories. A captive glider, on the other hand, leads a relatively sedentary life style.
[/]

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#8502 - 07/27/03 01:17 AM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Letís start with the anatomy of a glider. Gliders are not insectivores, but gummivores. Their anatomy, their behavior, and their physiology support this. This is the feeding category that best describes them. What this means in part is that they are not designed to eat a diet high in insect protein, and/or only limited amounts of animal-based protein. To do otherwise may be problematic for them.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Interesting, because in the spring and summer in their natural habitat, sugar gliders feed mainly on insects and spiders. They don't exhibit any problems from this, and in fact benefit greatly as the increase of protein by the insect consumption coincides with their breeding season. This is not by accident. Obviously, insects are a major part of a sugar glider's diet in the wild as a protein source. Also, pollen is another important source of protein for the gliders.

Incidently, to characterize sugar gliders as gummivores is not quite correct. Ominvores is a much better description. The sugar glider diet in the wild includes gums, sap, insects, nectar, manna, honeydew, and pollen, and even an occasional lizard and/or bird.


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#8503 - 07/27/03 06:25 AM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Saying they can't have too much protein and saying they need more than we think are two different statements. Anything in excess is bad for any living being. Yes, they may need more than we think (I am not an expert on this), but still too much is probably a bad thing. I thought I read somewhere that too much protein inhibits the absorption of calcium?

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#8504 - 07/27/03 11:18 PM Re: Too much protein? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


imho, i feel that you should follow one of the popular diets on this board, such as the bml diet or suncoast diet. if there is ever a situation in which your glider went overboard on a certain item (in this case, protein), i would just tone down some on the protein for the next day and take care not to let this happen again. since it was one day, i don't think it will be too much of a problem. it is as the old saying goes, take everything in moderation. also, make sure your little guy has access to plenty of water.

keep us posted! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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