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#861546 - 11/03/09 05:07 PM white tip gliders dominate or recessive?
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 644
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
I'm just curious about the white tip genes. I have heard that it is a dominate gene.
Does that mean that there aren't hets for WT?
Do both parents have to carry the gene to produce WT?
_________________________
Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


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#861569 - 11/03/09 06:04 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: tacasper]
pebbles1975 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1936
Loc: Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
I don't know alot about it have a breeding pair of WT hets and have never got one. I guess they didn't carry the gene. I neutered the male so no WT for me.
_________________________
Angie

Harmony :rtmo: , Kahne :wfb: ,
Navaeh :leu: , and Nova :rtmo:
Marsh: albino/creme Het , Mellow: Albino

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#861574 - 11/03/09 06:10 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: pebbles1975]
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
I think that is part of the problem... we just don't know.

I have a female with a very large WT and a WT het female (sisters) paired with a male that has no known WT in his lineage... so far I've gotten only 1 very small WT joey out of 6!

Personally I think the WT should be treated as more of an rare color, like the mosaci or lues... I think it's easier to produce a mosaic than a WT... But that is just my personal opinion. dunno
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#861577 - 11/03/09 06:14 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: krysKritters]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I have a pair Everest and Sierra that are wts together that have produced one wt joey. Before he was paired with Sierra, Everest was paired with a 2nd gen wfb/wt het. Their only joey was a little wf. She was paired with a 3rd gen wfb, Caiden, and they produced a wf/wt joey.

So although Alora was not a wt herself, she is obviously a wt het.
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But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#861689 - 11/03/09 10:56 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: Dancing]
eden
Unregistered


WT does not seem to follow standard Mendelian Inheritance patterns like Recessive, Dominant, or Co-Dominant. There are many non-Mendelian forms of inheritance such as sex-linked inheritance also but many forms of inheritance are not yet understood. It seems WT follows a non-Mendelian form of inheritance but it does not follow any known pattern. We have yet to understand how it is inherited so we should be very careful to label any animal as 100% het for WT unless it has proven to produce WT offspring because we just do not know how the trait is passed on so nothing can be guaranteed genetically. The Platinum trait is the same. They both seem to be passed on to the offspring of WT or Platinum parents but anything beyond that first generation offspring cannot be guaranteed at all, though none of them can be absolutely guaranteed until and unless the trait's inheritance pattern is absolutely understood. Just on a side note, if an animal that is labeled "het for WT" produces a WT joey, you would only be able to be sure that the parent was in fact a het if the other parent carried no WT in the lineage whatsoever. It has been proven possible for one WT or het for WT to produce WT offspring with a mate that does NOT carry any known WT in the lineage. Now it is possible that the other parent did in fact carry the gene it was just not known about, but unless that is the case it proves that you do not necessarily need both parents to carry the trait which means that no animal can be called a guaranteed Het for WT unless the other parent is proven to NOT carry the gene at all. The only way to absolutely prove that would be to pair the possible Het for WT parent with more than one mate that is known to not carry the trait and produce the same result of WT offspring.


Edited by eden (11/03/09 11:10 PM)
Edit Reason: add info

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#861697 - 11/03/09 11:17 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: ]
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 644
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
No wonder I haven't figured it out yet! So if a joey doesn't have a white tip, but has white tip parents, then this does not nessisarily mean that they are het for white tip? That is weird. How would breeders even begin to breed for that? I am not ever planning to try this! Just curious.

So really could white tip just pop up randomly in any glider, since it's a trait from the wild?

Also Eden gliders I did not know that about the platinums. I've seen 66% plat hets advertised, but if I'm understanding you, then they wouldn't really be considered 66%. The chances would seeminly be much lower, since the gene doesn't follow a pattern. Hmmm does that make sense? That does help me understand why a lot of breeders just say "from platinum lines".
_________________________
Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


www.sugarhighgliders.com



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#861698 - 11/03/09 11:25 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: tacasper]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
So really could white tip just pop up randomly in any glider, since it's a trait from the wild?


Yes. There have been some white tips pop out of parents where there are no KNOWN wt's in the family tree even though several generations back are known.

And even my wt parents that threw the "2 gen" wt joey...that joey may never throw a wt baby of his own.

The WT is one that is so random that no one has figured out the "pattern" yet.

Quote:
So although Alora was not a wt herself, she is obviously a wt het.


I say Alora is a wt het because I have the lineage on Caiden back 5, 6 and 7 generations (depending on what fork of the tree) and there are no known wts or wt hets in the tree.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#861887 - 11/04/09 02:16 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: Dancing]
eden
Unregistered


With both Platinum and White Tip you can be fairly certain that the offspring from one or both homozygous parents do carry the trait but there is no absolute guarantee because we don't understand how the trait is passed on. Offspring from a Platinum Glider or a WT Glider can be sold as almost certainly carrying the trait but anything past that first generation is basically a guess. If you want to know more about the Platinum trait specifically though I would talk to BabyDevilsAngel. She has a lot of experience with that trait and can give more information on what she has personally witnessed of the passing of that trait. Honestly, if you are puchasing a platinum or wt het you should expect to pay more for even the chance at possessing those genetics but you have to go into it knowing that the inheritance of those traits is not completely understood.

Dancing, that is definitely a case where I would tentatively call your girl a het smile

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#861951 - 11/04/09 05:13 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: ]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
This is what we mean when we say any glider is a percent het:

Quote:
Percentages are based on the probability of having a 100% het. A glider is either a 100% het or a standard. In other words, when buying a 50% possible het, you have a 50% chance the sugar glider is a 100% het, and a 50% chance it is a standard color without the gene.
This information was taken directly from here .

Lower percentage gliders have proven out. However, once a het is bred and it reproduces the desired color, it is proven that it is a 100% het.
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Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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#861968 - 11/04/09 05:56 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: GliderNursery]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
Wow just reading this post is giving me a headache. Is there anywhere, a website maybe, that this kind of information can be found?
_________________________
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http://hillhavensugargliders.webs.com
TGI
SGGA

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#861971 - 11/04/09 06:05 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: hpyhwn2003]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
Elena, go to the website I referenced, right above your response. She has some pretty good information regarding genetics, colors, etc.
_________________________
Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation



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#861974 - 11/04/09 06:09 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: GliderNursery]
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 644
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
Elena

Pet Sugar Gliders has a wonderful chart on breeding for colors
http://www.petsugargliders.com/recchart.php

From what they are saying the white tip and the plats do not follow this pattern though.


Quote:
Percentages are based on the probability of having a 100% het. A glider is either a 100% het or a standard. In other words, when buying a 50% possible het, you have a 50% chance the sugar glider is a 100% het, and a 50% chance it is a standard color without the gene.
This information was taken directly from here .

This basically means the only guarentee to produce color is a glider that expresses the color and a 100% het of color. Any % lower is the the probablity that they are carriers of the gene.

tounge
_________________________
Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


www.sugarhighgliders.com



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#861982 - 11/04/09 06:13 PM Re: white tip gliders dominate or recessive? [Re: tacasper]
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 644
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
Oh yeah they are the same link thumb
_________________________
Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


www.sugarhighgliders.com



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