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#861886 - 11/04/09 02:13 PM Are Pouches really Necessary?
konotashi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 4061
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I'm sure most everyone (if not everyone) has pouches in their gliders' cage. I have several in mine.

But - are they necessary? In the wild, would sugar gliders (that aren't IP joeys) sleep in pouches? No.

I was reading this - http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/779042/1

I didn't read through all of it, but I noticed that it mentioned that with more space for them on the bottom, there haven't been any joey rejections/cannibalized joeys.

Wouldn't a next box or something similar be more practical, and possibly safer to use? Not wooden ones, as those would absorb incredible amounts of bacteria, but it's closer to what they would live in in the wild, and there would be less of a risk for sugar gliders to get their limbs and appendages trapped in loose threads.

I have one of these in my gliders' cage along with the pouches, and they sleep in it more than the pouches. I put fleece blankets and/or shredded fleece in it so they can hide from the light, since it's transparent.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753273

What do you guys think? Are pouches absolutely necessary?
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#861894 - 11/04/09 02:35 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: konotashi]
eden
Unregistered


Awesome thread!!!

I personally don't think pouches are necessary, its having a nesting area that is necessary. I think as long as you provide a nesting area that meets the following criteria then it can be done however you like

1. It must be safe. No toxic materials or loose threads etc.

2. It must be dark. If their sleeping area lets in too much light it can damage their eyes, cause them to not get enough sleep, affect their stress levels, and depress their immune system

3. It must be higher up. Gliders feel most secure higher up in the tree or cage.

4. It must be confined enough for them to feel secure but have enough space to fit the whole family without bunching them in on top of each other.

I look forward to seeing what everybody else has to say. Awesome thread idea!!

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#861905 - 11/04/09 03:14 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: ]
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 3753
Loc: Florida
I agree- pouches are not a necessity- just a dark, safe, high sleeping space big enough for the gliders to get comfy in with an adequate opening for entrance and exit... pouches, however, are easy to make, cheap to produce and purchase, can be hung at the proper level, provide extra warmth due to the fleece material, and are sufficiently dark, safe, and comfy (not to mention can be made in multiple human-eye-pleasing shapes and designs)... so while they are not a NECESSITY they are certainly a WELCOME ADDITION to any cage! smile


Edited by LabNGliderMom (11/04/09 03:15 PM)
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#861909 - 11/04/09 03:18 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: LabNGliderMom]
Amanda1981
Unregistered


Good topic smile
I agree, when breeding there should definitely be more room too! Next boxes are idea places for gliders to hang out, but be sure they have a soft place at the bottom.

When I picked Bird up (my rescue) he was sleeping in his veggies because all he had at the bottom of the cage was an igloo with bare wire under it.

Make sure your suggies have a choice! If they never use the pouches, toss em! Why not? dunno

Boxes are the bomb AND they're easy to clean AND they don't wear out as easy. smile (if you get plastic)

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#861916 - 11/04/09 03:35 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: ]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
I wonder which breeders prefer?

Can some breeders please chime in on which you prefer and why?
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#861917 - 11/04/09 03:41 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Tish84]
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 3753
Loc: Florida
I think I'd prefer pouches IF I was a breeder- easier for the young joeys to get out of than a box once they are big enough and easy to toss in the wash and clean smile
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Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
The Zoo: Midnight, Severe & Nala - Claude, Pixie, Tippy & Chili - Scout & Soluna, Theo & Deegie

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#861938 - 11/04/09 04:41 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: LabNGliderMom]
GoGoGliders
Unregistered


I definitely prefer pouches.....it lets me do "head and finger" count easily in the morning to make sure everyone is ok and also lets me check on mothers that may be nursing etc.....I do prefer pouches with a wide bottom when I have young joeys or really expectant moms.....just my two cents

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#861942 - 11/04/09 04:45 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: LabNGliderMom]
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
I love using pouches, I think they are more warm and cozy for joeys than a nest box. For my breeding gliders I use solid bottom pouches so they have plently of room for the family. I currently have Karin's Elfin Houses, and I am going to be ordering the Petal Pouches soon to give thoses a try. I have never tried nesting boxes.
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#861956 - 11/04/09 05:37 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: SugareeErin]
GliderNursery Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 20049
Loc: North Central Ohio
I prefer large pouches for my breeding gliders. My first gliders I got came with a nesting box. It was actually a plastic index box with a hole drilled in the lid, easy to clean, but I prefer the pouches.
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#861985 - 11/04/09 06:21 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: GliderNursery]
AmyLynn
Unregistered


I have pouches in mine. Karin's Elfin Houses and a plastic nest box with tons of fleece pieces in it. They will switch where they sleep alot. And sometimes I will find 3 in one and 3 in the other. I just give them the option in where they prefer to sleep.

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#861992 - 11/04/09 06:31 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: GliderNursery]
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 3636
Loc: In paradise
I also use pouches. Throw them in the washer... I also have never tried nesting boxes. Have thought to try but Lord knows I wash enough kitchens, plates, and cups every day that just the thought of more plastic makes me shutter.
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#861994 - 11/04/09 06:31 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: ]
twoday87
Unregistered


I agree with what people have been saying about the pouches not being necessary, but the gliders seem to enjoy them. Personally as long as they like them this is what I would want them to use. It seems easier to clean and see them. It also makes bonding easier since you can just easily get them out without really waking them.

I have heard of gliders not liking them and that is ok too. If my gliders got to that point I would use something different. I have seen some pictures of nest boxes and some do look nice. I do wonder how I would get something like that off the ground though since this is where glider prefer to sleep.

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#862001 - 11/04/09 06:38 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: ]
konotashi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 4061
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I like the convenience of pouches, but since the chinchilla bath house is transparent, normally I can see their butts or tails sticking up out of the fleece and I can watch them sleep. grin
It has little hooks on the back of it so that you can hang them in the cage, and I've never had problems with it not attaching.
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#862007 - 11/04/09 06:50 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: konotashi]
twoday87
Unregistered


Hmmmm that is interesting. I have never really looked at those chinchilla bath houses before. That sounds like a nice alternative.

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#862014 - 11/04/09 07:00 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: konotashi]
Beezer
Unregistered


I have pouches in my Juniors and Kikis cage and they do use them - but they are not hanging - they are on the cage floor - I also have kerchiefs on the cage floor and they switch on and off between the pouches and kerchiefs -

Sue
owned by

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#862019 - 11/04/09 07:08 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: SugareeErin]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: SugareeErin
I love using pouches, I think they are more warm and cozy for joeys than a nest box. For my breeding gliders I use solid bottom pouches so they have plently of room for the family. I currently have Karin's Elfin Houses, and I am going to be ordering the Petal Pouches soon to give thoses a try. I have never tried nesting boxes.


Solid bottom pouches?
_________________________
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Lana (Siberian Husky)
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Bunny
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Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


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#862110 - 11/04/09 10:06 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Tish84]
Kage Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 621
Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
I was seriously just about to say to use that.. ROFL when I didn't read most of it until I scrolled back up and read most of it.
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#862122 - 11/04/09 10:23 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: ]
gliderma Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5402
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Beezer
I have pouches in my Juniors and Kikis cage and they do use them - but they are not hanging - they are on the cage floor - I also have kerchiefs on the cage floor and they switch on and off between the pouches and kerchiefs -

Sue
owned by

I'm curious why you keep the pouches on the cage floor? I use pouches in all of my cages and hang them as high as I can. When we have new joeys, I lower the pouch so they can't fall too far, but the pouch is always up off the floor and hanging on the cage. I give them corner hammocks and another pouch to choose from as well, except my breeders. I only keep one pouch in the cage when there's joeys.
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#862123 - 11/04/09 10:24 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Kage]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Some make pouches with a more solid bottom sandwiched between two layers of fleece. (Plastic canvas works pretty well but doesn't hold up to dryers)

I've used both nest boxes and pouches with my breeding gliders. It depends on the parents. One advantage to the boxes, if the hole is cut on the top, the joeys tend to stay put and not leave the nest until they are truely ready.

Lately, I've been using only extra large pouches (larger at the bottom).
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#862125 - 11/04/09 10:29 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Dancing]
konotashi Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 4061
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I have the chinchilla bath house and three pouches in the cage right now. Two of the pouches are hung high, and one is on the floor. Well, when they're in a pouch, I can almost always count that they're in the one on the floor. I don't know if it's more comfortable or what, but they prefer the ground pouch over the hung up pouches. But typically, they just sleep in their bath house.
_________________________
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How-to Critter Creations

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#862162 - 11/05/09 12:12 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: konotashi]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
The important thing (as has been mentioned) is not what you use, but that whatever it is, it gives them a dark and comfortable place to get away from the daylight.

I have used both with breeding and with non breeding gliders. My gliders prefer their pouches, but then again, most of the pouches I have ever used are similar to nest boxes, with a hole they can get into and a larger floor space.

I like the pouches better because when I was using the nest plastic nest boxes I noticed their fur tended to be more stained and they sometimes smelled more (if there was a glider urinating in the box). Even with wiping them out every day or two and bleaching them weekly, they trap moisture.
_________________________
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Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#862172 - 11/05/09 12:36 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: sugarlope]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
Can someone post a picture of these solid bottom pouches?
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Lana (Siberian Husky)
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#862174 - 11/05/09 12:39 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Tish84]
princessmegi Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 6894
Loc: NW Missouri
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#862176 - 11/05/09 12:47 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Tish84]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
There are several different versions for sale;
Caldwell makes several that have a larger floor space; Super pouches, Critter Tents and Flower Pouch - http://www.freewebs.com/blueangelexotics/crittertents.htm

Karin makes the Elfin and Petal pouches that have a large floor space in them - http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/users/124/Karin

Many of the cube makers use something to firm up the bottom, and many cubes by their nature will give them a larger space to spread out. thumb
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Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#862188 - 11/05/09 02:07 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: sugarlope]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I like to give my gliders a choice. they get a pouch hanging up in the cage AND a plastic box on the bottom filled with natural nesting material like spagnum moss and euc leaves. they will take turns although Gizmo tends to favor the box and Arwen the pouch. sometimes they sllep together and sometimes apart.
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#862194 - 11/05/09 04:03 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: konotashi]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Since I am a breeder I will chime in.

Reason for using pouches and not nesting boxes.... as a breeder of mamy colors myself.... nest boxes do not give good ventilation. As gliders groom... if there is not good ventilation in the nest box... the fur of the gliders sometimes will take on a yellow appearance from their saliva. Especially noticable in the Leucistic.

Also, it is easier to just throw the pouches and blakets into the washing maching rather than hamd washing 15 nest boxes weekly.

And last, babies are more easily accessable than in a nesting box. They can be popped out so to speak and it is not so intimidating to a baby as it is to reach in to get a little one.

I myself only use double lined fleese pouches so there are no seams... and so far I have never had a pouch accident in my twelve years as a breeder. But then again... I check my pouches regularly when they are washed weekly. I also put two rather large blankies inside and by doing so... the gliders do not dig inside their pouches to get between the sewen material. They go between the blackies and then take the tops of the blankies and fold them down to cover themselves from any light in the room. They sleep like little bugs in a rug so to speak. roflmao

And by the way... in the wild.... gliders bunch up like in a ball when sleeping in a hollow in a tree. Only do they spread out to sleep so to speak is when the weather is very hot. Here in captivity in our homes due to a controled enviroment is it not necessary so our gliders usually sleep bunched up together as in the wild.



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#862241 - 11/05/09 08:10 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Judie]
gliderma Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5402
Loc: Michigan
I prefer pouches for many of the same reasons already mentioned. I do believe my gliders are very comfortable and feel safe & secure in the fleece pouches I provide for them. It is easier to roll them out of a pouch than a box. I have never used a nesting box, but I don't think the gliders would feel secure with a hand reaching down to grab them from the box. It is also way easier to clean the pouches, just throw em in the washer & dryer and done! I do check them every time too, and turn them inside out for washing. This helps me to see right away if there is a problem and assures the inside gets clean too. (Some of them are very thick) So, while I do like to have cool looking cages, I do think the pouch is a necessity for us! The cubes, shades and flat bottom styles are great for families too!
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#862257 - 11/05/09 09:37 AM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: gliderma]
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 11583
Loc: Sycamore Illinois
Tish...here is a picture of the pouch that was referred to previously.



Karin
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#862308 - 11/05/09 12:40 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Karin]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
Thnaks Karin. I will be getting one of those when I order your pillow pouch that I've wanted for so long.
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TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
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#862601 - 11/05/09 09:47 PM Re: Are Pouches really Necessary? [Re: Tish84]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
The pouch Karin is showing can hold a colony of gliders, HEAVY BIG gliders and not sag. It holds up great and gives them a great nest to cover themselves since they like to pull the petal in or up to keep out light.
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