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#87058 - 03/08/06 12:01 AM What killed her? She was fine last night...
Anonymous
Unregistered


I may have made a very big mistake last night, I readily admit that and I've beat myself up enough over it, so please no more.
I have 3 gliders, Keiko (f), Heihachi (m) and their daughter who we hadn't named yet, she is about 6 months old.
Last night I let all 3 out to play and Keiko seemed a "slower" than usual, mainly she didn't attack and devour the dried banana chip I gave her (which she usually does with any kind of treat.) After playing for a little while though she seemed to be moving about ok so I let it go. The other two gliders seemed just fine as well, both running around and exploring like usual.
Then I got them their dinner - I've been lazy/busy for the last two weeks and haven't made them their BML so I've been feeding them frozen fruit and frozen crickets. As it seems possibly relevant here I'll mention that these are crickets from a reptile store bought live and frozen in my freezer (and no I don't need a lecture on how flash freezing is more humane right now. thanks.)
The night before last, my boyfriend fed the gliders and he left the crickets out of the freezer for about 8 hours before remembering to put them back in. When I went to feed the gliders last night I noticed the crickets were very black and asked if he'd left them out, he said yes, and I debated about whether or not to feed them to the gliders. I figured (and here's my possibly big mistake) that if they were "bad" the gliders just wouldn't eat them, right?

So tonight I went in to feed them and found the little girl (the unnamed daughter) face down in the feeding dish...dead. Most of the crickets and all of the fruit were eaten. And it looked like so were her eyes...that or they had somehow liquified and...leaked out of her head. I don't know. She didn't have any other bite marks on her so I didn't think that her parents had killed her and eaten her eyes. (History: something similar happened before when they had a pair of 6 month old boys and the little girl had just been born, we found one of the boys on the bottom of the cage with his eyes "eaten" - I assumed that's what happened because the rest of his body looked flat, like they'd eaten his insides though I don't remember if I looked close enough to actually see any bite marks...By the way Heihachi was fixed shortly after that.)

So. *sniff* Anyone have any idea what might have happened? Was it a bad idea to feed them the frozen-melted-refrozen crickets? I checked and both Heihachi and Keiko seem fine tonight...and of course I did not feed them the crickets again.

Guess # 2: My other wonder is if it is something to do with the parents. We adopted Keiko and Heihachi when the were about two years old. So far they have had 5 children only 2 of whom have survived to maturity (having been adopted from us to new homes at about 6 months, one of the twin boys was adopted, after his brother died.) I was always slightly skeptical about the reason their original owners gave for giving them up (something about something in their lives changed and they didn't have enough time, though I know that's common enough.) Any way, I wonder if they're brother and sister and there's something inherently wrong with all of their children because of it? The original owners certainly said nothing of the sort, but they might not have known or they just really wanted to get rid of them. *sigh* ok maybe I'm just grasping for an answer now. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

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#87059 - 03/08/06 12:06 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


As for the male, they may be killed by father if around 5 or 6 months of age??

I am so sorry this happened...I hope you find answers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />


Edited by gogogliders (03/08/06 09:05 AM)

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#87060 - 03/08/06 12:10 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
I'm so very sorry for your loss.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be



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#87061 - 03/08/06 12:45 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
This is more than scarey to me. Has anyone else gone through or heard of this happening before?

So sorry for you and the baby.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#87062 - 03/08/06 03:08 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


my condolencens.

it is like a horror story for me and i hope it will never happen to me.

oke i am not a glider expert, but for me it sounds that is was not the ckrickets. to me it sounds more like a diseas.
i dont know how the eye looklike ( i rather dont want to know) but my first thoutght was mabey a munges ( hope i say it right) or some kind, that came from inside. how ever then you would have seen it earlier.
but if it where the krickets then i can't imagin why the eye's where "gone".

i wish you all the strength and God's blessing's in this hard time.

@ gogoglider:
mabey stupid.. but why would father kill there sons when they are about 5 or 6 years old? i find it a bit strange age.
i imaging it would happen much earlier..iff it happens.

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#87063 - 03/08/06 06:25 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]First of all, I would get this glider in for a necropsy right away. Take her over to the vets office as soon as they open. Do not freeze her in the meantime.

To me, from what you have described, it sounds like it was probably aflatoxins from the crickets. The fact that they were black means that they were no longer any good. Since the girl was younger (and smaller) it would explain why she died but the parents are still okay - they're larger and probably have better immunities built up. The eyes probably were eaten by the parents even though there aren't any bite marks.

But, in order to know, for sure, what happened, a necropsy is needed ASAP before any tissue starts to decay.

I'm so sorry for your loss <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />. Don't blame yourself too much... you simply didn't know... Hopefully, others will learn from this experience.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#87064 - 03/08/06 09:06 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Months, sorry I fixed it... I meant months!!!(Sexual maturity age)

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#87065 - 03/09/06 01:41 PM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Even tho you weren't feeding BML, I don't THINK it would be a result of that...although who knows, maybe not having the proper nutrients so suddenly could have done something....I'd say the crickets went bad and she just wasn't able to fight off whatever was released into her body upon eating the crickets....I'm sorry you lost her for sure, maybe getting the other two back on BML ASAP will give them the proper vitamins and nutrients in case there IS something lingering in either of their bodies from those crickets, they'll at least have what they need in the bodies to fight it off....
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#87066 - 03/09/06 01:50 PM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't think not feeding the BML for two weeks would do it. . . during the hurricanes last fall I couldn't feed BML for about a month and my girls were younger than six months at the time. I was feeding them hedgehog and ferret pellets for the time being. I don't think having poor nutrition for two weeks would do it. . . sounds like the bad crickets were at fault. But I would do as others suggested and get the necropsy done to make sure the parents are okay . . . my condelences to you.

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#87067 - 03/13/06 10:16 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Now something similiar has happened (almost identical). This is terrifying!

http://sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/showfl...SID=#Post543222
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

Top
#87068 - 03/13/06 10:26 AM Re: What killed her? She was fine last night... [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
Crickets, the ones in the cans, are black and they are freeze dried.
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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