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#897508 - 01/25/10 11:40 AM Sudden Lethargy, Dehydration - Discussion Only!
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
I've seen so many posts on here and other forums. "Help, my glider is lethargic on the bottom of the cage."

It seems to me that even when the glider is rushed to a vet and subqued, a great number of them pass. Subquing helps them perk up for a bit, but then they usually seem to crash again and die suddenly.

In instance after instance, these are gliders who were perky and playing the previous day, if not hour. In many instances, necropsies reveal nothing. In many instances, they leave behind a cage mate with no diagnosable illness, or even symptoms.

I'd like to open up a discussion about this.

It really seems as if this is something larger at work in these gliders - not just a sudden dehydration. I am speculating some sort of organ failure is at work.

I mentioned it to a fellow glider lover, and he seemed convinced it was renal failure.

Anyone have any ideas on this? I think I know of ONE glider who has pulled back from this "lethargy, cold, on bottom of the cage" condition. Even when vet care was immediate, the gliders pass.

ideas?
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#897523 - 01/25/10 12:14 PM Re: Sudden Lethargy, Dehydration - Discussion Only! [Re: ValkyrieMome]
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 13454
Loc: South Africa
I agree, we have seen far too many "Help, my glider is lethargic on the bottom of the cage" posts.

I think a good start will be to research the age and diet of these specific gliders.

I have read somewhere that toxicity occurs over time with overdosing of vitamin D that can cause sudden lethargy, weakness and loss of appetite. Correct me if I am wrong but kidney failure can also be the result of low protein, red blood cells and glucose levels.

I will see if I can find this article again. I am no expert, but maybe if we debate this and work together we can get to the bottom of this and prevent tragic incidents like these.
_________________________
Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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#897541 - 01/25/10 01:06 PM Re: Sudden Lethargy, Dehydration - Discussion Only! [Re: Gizmogirl]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
Something else to consider: gliders hide illness/infections so well untill they are near death................its one of their defense mechanisms. That is why I think it is important to take your gliders to the vet at least 1 time per year for fecal and urinalysis with culture if bacteria present. Also keep glider room temps 73 to 78 degrees. Cleaning your water bottles daily is imperitive as bacteria starts growing after (and sometimes before) 24 hours.
I have had my share of glider health issues and gliders at the bottom of the cage. Mary says I am working on my 15 years of experience.....LOL
_________________________
USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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#897544 - 01/25/10 01:14 PM Re: Sudden Lethargy, Dehydration - Discussion Only! [Re: Gizmogirl]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Just a few thoughts because I don't have a lot of time:

1) Necropsy might not be revealing the cause because the brain is not observed in many/most necropsies. I think the brain needs to be examined with every necropsy, but there are issues with getting the body back after the brain is removed, so that is something that each person has to decide for him/her self.

2) If necropsy is inconclusive, PLEASE have a histopathology completed. It can and often does reveal a cause that a gross necropsy cannot reveal.

3) I have had a glider pull back from this many times over the course of several months. She did finally pass, and the cause was found to be a brain abscess. She had been treated for infection twice and had seen a vet multiple times in the course of her illness. Latte's story is documented in detail on The Sweet Spot.

4) Sub-qing is one way of getting fluids into a glider very quickly, but it is not as effective as getting fluids in orally. So, please be sure that we are instructing people to try to syringe feed dextrose, pedialyte, gatorade, etc. even AFTER sub-Q fluids are presented.
Once the body has become very dehydrated, the organs begin to shut down. It is very difficult for a glider to come back from that.

5) We must be careful to remember that dehydration is a SYMPTOM. It is a very serious symptom that must be treated immediately, but simply treating for dehydration will rarely save a glider. Please remember to test, test, and test so that you can find and treat the CAUSE of dehydration. A healthy glider does not become severely dehydrated simply because a water bottle leaks.

6) I have a glider who suffers from chronic dehydration. The cause? He is a very young glider in renal failure. If I did not tent test him every day, I would NEVER know that he was dehydrated. There are NO symptoms. Perhaps tent testing should be part of our daily checks on each glider?
_________________________
~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#898242 - 01/26/10 08:54 PM Re: Sudden Lethargy, Dehydration - Discussion Only! [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 12066
Loc: Wisconsin
Alden,

My little Jadzia came back from that point. She crashed after a round of Flagl for an unspecified protozoan (not Giardia). I forced fluids and food for two weeks. The vet SubQ her once and I had to do it twice. I carried her in my shirt and if I was sleeping she was in an incubator next to my bed and I was up every two hours forcing fluids and food.

My vets are not sure why she crashed and they were unable to get enough blood to check her liver values, after three tries they didn't want to stress her out any more so they brought her back to me and she was made as all get out until I picked her up. They thought she would bite me when I scooped her up but she smelled me and quit crabbing right away.

Little Ginger crashed and rallied last summer but she did pass away.

Nibbles crashed and xrays revealed several nodules and lesions. I chose to euthanize him because he wasn't coming out of the anesthesia. His necropsy revealed that he was full of cancer.
_________________________
Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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