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#903051 - 02/06/10 01:46 AM Asthma in Gliders....?
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I have a documented case. I've never seen another one. Does anyone know of any?

I didn't figure it out with Flip for awhile, because of the above fact, though it did finally occur to me after a lot of observation...figure if pretty much any other species can suffer from it, so can a glider. It mimicked a recurring sinus infection until she came up with visible difficulties breathing during windstorms when there was a lot of pollens or particulate matter (we live near the Great Salt Lake, and salt dust will kick up from the lake and salt flats here) in the air. She'd come through and be okay. She'd also have issues when stressed (like during nail trims) but it was temporary-however her nose would go very dark, and more recently blue-tinged on the very edges-likely from the additional effort breathing took when stressed. Xray finally diagnosed the problem conclusively, as the inflammation was visible in the lungs-I'll get her Xray pics posted later this morning after I get home from work now my computer is sort of working.

I know nothing about asthma, other than the very basics of what it is. Details from anyone who has dealt with it, either in humans or another animal species, would be helpful-to me, and who knows if other gliders might have this issue...so possibly to another owner somewhere.

This site's members can be a goldmine of information-so what do you all know about asthma? dunno
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#903065 - 02/06/10 02:36 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Xfilefan]
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 7297
Loc: Quincy, IL
Asthma symptoms can range from mild to severe and they include wheezing, coughing, make your chest feel tight, make you feel short of breath, cause you to have trouble sleeping and you tire quickly when exercising. It can be triggered by environmental issues such as smoke, pollen, mold, cold air, pet dander and dust mites. It causes swelling and irritation in the airways and can make airway muscles tighten making it hard to breathe. It can also make upper respiratory infections worse.
_________________________
Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
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#903140 - 02/06/10 10:19 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: glidrz5]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Jen, asthma generally effects the airways more so than the lungs. What you are describing with the inflamed lungs sounds more like a lung infection or irritation of the lungs instead of asthma. With her having the fluid build up in the lungs, that most likely wasn't asthma but a secondary infection caused by the lowered immune system.

I have severe asthma and COPD (chronic obstructive pulmanary disease, in my case, chronic bronchitis). The bronchitis causes me more problems than the asthma. It also makes my lungs (and airways) more vunerable to secondary bacterial infections (pnumonia).
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Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#903459 - 02/07/10 12:04 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Dancing]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
vet said "secondary" to the asthma-in other words, if she hadn't had the asthma, this wouldn't have happened-there wasn't any sign of infection there just clear fluid, though I don't think she cultured it-and yes her other issues most likely were a factor the last few weeks, as stated. She'd been struggling with this issue her whole life (7-8 years), it just wasn't recognized, and was misdiagnosed more than once. What I want is to know more about the mechanics of it/symptoms/treatments/diagnostics in case another glider comes along with it (which would be just my luck). Suspicion is one thing, how do you diagnose it, though? And then what? What are early signs that can say "hey, might be a good idea to look into this as a lung problem" before a glider is struggling to breathe?


Edited by Xfilefan (02/07/10 02:08 AM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#903507 - 02/07/10 03:15 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Xfilefan]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Diagnosing asthma (in humans)

http://www.webmd.com/asthma/guide/diagnosing-asthma-tests
Quote:
While a chest X-ray is not an asthma test, it may be used to make sure nothing else is causing your asthma symptoms.


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/asthma/AS00003

http://asthma.about.com/od/asthmabasics/a/asthma_diagnosi.htm

From what I know from first hand experience and from reading, asthma is not simple to diagnose. Pulmonary function tests are one of the most common (and crutial) tests to diagnose asthma. Same with peak flow testing. I can pretty much guarentee that neither of these were done on a glider.

Chest xrays are used to rule out OTHER possible lung problems but not to diagnose asthma. It sounds like what was seen on xray could have been pulmonary edema.
Pulmonary edema is accumulation of fluid in the lungs. This is generally in the actual tissues of the lungs, not just the "air space" in the lungs. And this could be caused by any number of things from infections to heart disease. Pulmonary edema can be mild (swelling of the lung tissues) to severe/fatal (chest filling with fluid). There have been people live for YEARS with pulmonary edema and not know they have it (in milder cases).

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying a glider couldn't have asthma. What I'm saying is I do not see how it could be diagnosed on a glider. It is usually diagnosed on a human after other possible issues have been ruled out and the PFT and Peak Flow tests are done.


Edited by Dancing (02/07/10 03:29 AM)
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#903513 - 02/07/10 04:26 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Dancing]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
At the point the xray was taken, it's very likely the edema that was seen, you're right. Would have taken an ultrasound to see the fluid in the chest cavity. Unlikely she had it for years though. What she did have was wheezing when the air was bad (which could be heard with a stethoscope), and you could see her sides heave when she had difficulty-it would come and go-for years. Her nose would discolor indicative of lack of oxygen, but there wasn't infection. Antibiotics did nothing. Definitely was not a sinus issue (which two vets-not mine thankfully) had told her previous owner was the issue. In between attacks she seemed normal, including her first visit with my vet after I got her. She has had an ongoing come/go issue with her breathing. Due to when it happened-bad air and stress, much like with a person, there aren't many alternatives. She may well have had more minor difficulties in between that weren't obvious from just looking at her.

This is the kind of info I'm looking for though-what would you suggest as a way to diagnose it in a glider, given her history, had we started looking for that early on? Is there a way to measure volume of breathing maybe, at a resting rate, compared to a normal glider? (since I know she couldn't have blown in a tube with a ball, for example...)


Edited by Xfilefan (02/07/10 04:27 AM)
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Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#903514 - 02/07/10 04:31 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Xfilefan]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
I was born with asthma. The best current treatment for it is an inhaled medication like Advair as it treats the inflammation and thins the mucous. Rescue inhalers on provide emergency help but long term management may require a steroid.
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TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


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#903516 - 02/07/10 04:39 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Tish84]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Tish, vet and I discussed an inhaler-how would you do that..spray it in a pouch with her, close it up, and let her breathe it in? We also talked about a steroid, but with her immune system being so battered it was going to be looked at again later on..as they have a tendency to supress the immune system, which she didn't need.

Thanks for the reply!
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#903579 - 02/07/10 09:27 AM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Xfilefan]
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3089
Loc: Central Connecticut
I think the only good way to get the meds. in would be to use a nebulizer instead of an inhaler. I have used one in the past by making a tank to put the cup in and running the tube in though the side. The glider will sit inside the tank and breath in the meds. It worked well. We even did antibiotics and steroids this way.



Edited by BCChins (02/07/10 09:34 AM)
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#903655 - 02/07/10 12:55 PM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: BCChins]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I agree that a nebulizer would work best. A critter keeper could easily be modified to accomodate a nebulizer. I'm working on one for the vet to use to put my gliders under anesthsia instead of trying to catch them with a large dog nose cup. Basically I'm making a plastic tent that goes over the top of the critter keeper that will attach to the anesthsia delivery hose. One for a nebulizer wouldn't be difficult but it does have to be a ventilated one. A critter keeper would probably work great since it has the vents all around the top anyway. Albuterol delivered by a nebulizer seems to work longer than an inhaler but the inhaler works faster.

It sounds like she may have had allergies and the asthma symptoms were a reaction to the allergies. That's pretty common with allergies. My hayfever is what triggered the attack that put me in the ICU for a week. Anxiety attacks (stress) can feel much like an asthma attack but not be asthma. On the flip side though, stress/anxiety can trigger asthma attacks. So hard call on that as to which it actually is.

As for things like advair, that I would NOT recommend for a glider. Even for us humans that use it, there is a risk of asthma related death due to the advair. It helps us breathe easier but can also cause death. Big catch 22 with it. Also, the steriods in it does cause weight gain too. Something that could be very hard on a glider. Without a definitive diagnosis (that they can't do on a glider) I would personally rather treat the attacks (inhaler/nebulizer) than try to do preventive (advair).


Edited by Dancing (02/07/10 12:57 PM)
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#903745 - 02/07/10 04:49 PM Re: Asthma in Gliders....? [Re: Dancing]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
A nebulizer sounds good to me too and there are also some steroids in pill form as well, I remember taking them as a child.
_________________________
TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


www.fancysuggies.com

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