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#904025 - 02/08/10 07:20 AM Professional Rescues
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
I want to say some thing and I hope this stirs some emotions. But I also hope that my thoughts don’t stir controversy. I would like to see us discuss thing calmly. I am posting this here because GC is not a rescue board and they are usually pretty good at getting things out in the open without the drama that we see on some boards. And I don’t see this a just a rescue issue. I see this as a community issue. I don’t want to hurt feelings, especially not the feelings of those who want to rescue. To me, those who rescue have a special place in my heart.

I’ve been in this community for a long time and I’ve seen many changes. We have come so far in improving diet, housing, enrichment, medical care, breeding, and all other areas of Glider husbandry. But after all this time it seems like we still have few standards in the area of rescue work. Ok, yes I know that a few people have been calling for higher standards, and I really poo pooed that idea. I kind of thought “leave the newbys alone”. But some recent events caused me to rethink those thoughts.

As an outsider I thought all you needed to have to do rescue work is a big heart, extra room in your home, and a list of people to help out. But my involvement with an attempted rescue has changed my mind and now I wonder if we don’t need to set the bar a little higher when it comes to rescue work. I don’t want to throw this rescuer under the bus because I know her and I know how much she loves gliders and she has a huge heart. But her inexperience and her lack of seeking knowledge from qualified rescues caused her to make some avoidable mistakes. Some of these mistakes, in some situations could have put gliders in jeopardy or risk the safety of herself and her volunteers.

Folks, with the massive numbers of gliders that are being dumped into our community we are going to need more rescues, a lot more. But they need to be people who have taken the time to be mentored by qualified organizations, and who have set their policies and standards, and understand the ins and outs or rescuing. They need to know their state and local laws, and understand the responsibility and accountability that comes with those laws. They need understand that they are dealing with people and emotions and sometimes that can be a volatile situation. They need to know their limits. They need to know how to keep medical records on the animals they take in. It is so much more involved than simply moving an animal from point A to point B. It is so much more than waking up one morning and deciding they want to rescue.

I would like to hear the opinions of others on this. How do we get there from here? How do we as a community handle the large numbers of gliders who will need rescued and homes? How do we get the right people in the right place with the right training?
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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#904043 - 02/08/10 08:12 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
Anita, thanks for posting. We all know that we are talking about the 60 rescues from Florida and what happened and what did not happen.

The situation with these rescues was a huge eye openner for many of us (Julie and I) and some others. It has also hit me head on that we as a community are not ready to take in and properly care for big number of rescues. This situation has been on my mind and bugging me for the past three weeks. We are putting so much pressure on mill breeders and working together to close them down, etc. But, what will happen when we get that phone call in the middle of the night saying we have 3000 plus gliders that have been confiscated from a mill breeder. What are we going to do??? Guess what? Nothing. We as a community are not ready for it. We do not have the space, the supplies or the finances to do it. We also do not have enough rescuers or rescuer agents to even put a dent on that many gliders.

So, this situation goes beyond what can and cannot be done for these 60 gliders in Florida.

Spin made mistakes. These mistakes were made due to our mentality of "do whatever it takes to save gliders". We also made mistakes from our lack of knowledge of the FULL laws that govern rescuing. Irregardeless, of these mistakes, SPIN was mostly afraid of the community. Yes, I just said the community. Unfortunately we have people out there who are just waiting for someone to take one wrong step and crucify them. We know these people out there and we know what can happen (BLG's pay pal, Michele cookies, etc). I don't know who they are and to tell you the truth, don't care to know. But we as Spin do not want to be one of their targets.

Therefore, SPIN has decided to take 3 steps back in order move forward full steam. We have made some major changes which will be soon anounced to the community. We believe that these changes will put us in a better position to help gliders legally without the fear of being persecuted by zealous community members.

Anita, I love you, and believe me this situation has hurt som many people including Julie and I and I know that has hurt you deeply, but worst of all, it has hurt the gliders.

I hope that this entire incident also helps others realize how much work and what it takes to do real rescue work. Love and passion for gliders are requirements, but unfortunately we now live in a world that love and willingness is just not enough. You need to be backed up by the law.

Paula
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#904058 - 02/08/10 08:42 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jaxsuggies]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
clap clap

To both above posts!!!
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#904060 - 02/08/10 08:56 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Srlb]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Yes, the situation with the 60 gliders is what also opened my eyes, but no this is not just about that. As I said, I would not throw you guys under the bus because I understand that both of you are working from a position of love and wanting to help. So No this is not just about spin. I want this to be a way to bring out the "what ifs" to the community and to make positive changes that can maybe save someone in the future from making the same mistakes. So can we take what this situation and others like it has thrown at us and use that to make a positive impact instead of a negative one. Maybe there are others out there that we can help make the right choices.

Yes, I very well know that if we were successful in closing down a mill, we would not have the resources to handle it. But on the other hand I think we have seen that we also do not have the resources or the training to handle what happen if we don't work to close the mills.

And I have to tell you that with these 60 gliders, nothing got hurt but my pride. But it did make me stop and think about some of the things that could go wrong in these situations. It doesn't make me want to stop helping. Just the opposite, it makes me that much more determined to help,. Much to my DH dismay, I would probably do it all again tomorrow if it was needed. But it did make me stop and think about the “what ifs” and I know that I have to work a little smarter the next time. And the crucifixions are survivable. I know that from experience.

We all learn from mistakes. But I've always believed that the best mistakes to learn from are other people’s mistakes. So if I wanted to be a Doctor, I would get advice from someone in the medical profession. And If I wanted to be a millionaire, I sure wouldn’t ask anyone in my neighborhood to mentor me. And that is all I am saying, that these young organizations like SPIN seek out those who have gone before them and learn from them, instead of trying things out and having to back up three steps. I say that because some mistakes and get animals hurt. And worse, some mistakes could get people hurt and a rescuer need to be aware of that and take precautions.

And I still don’t see this as just a rescue problem. I see this whole ball of rescue/ mill fiasco as a community problem. And we need to be open to changes before we find them thrust upon us. We need to be working on those things now before we see the closing of a huge mill. We need to be planning and preparing now.


Edited by hushpuppy (02/08/10 09:03 AM)
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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#904061 - 02/08/10 08:57 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: hushpuppy
But her inexperience and her lack of seeking knowledge from qualified rescues caused her to make some avoidable mistakes. Some of these mistakes, in some situations could have put gliders in jeopardy or risk the safety of herself and her volunteers.


Anita - I also wanted to mention that we did seek help from qualified and experienced rescuers. It was their help that opened up our eyes to what we were doing wrong and steered us in the right direction.

It was very hard for Julie and I to make the decisions that we made. Believe me, it still bothers me. But unfortunately it is what it is, and I cannot go to jail. Not even if you guys bail me out !!!!
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#904069 - 02/08/10 09:13 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 3753
Loc: Florida
In the case of these rescues, Anita, we had the support of other rescues from the word go... and though we made mistakes (I.E. we agreed to take them without checking the laws of FL first) we still managed to salvage the situation. I know your feelings were hurt, and for that I am truly sorry- if I could have saved you that pain I gladly would have- but the gliders appear to be safe and well cared for. Beyonfd that, I am not free to comment until our announcement (coming soon!) after which more details about this instance will be posted in the original thread about those gliders.

I agree with you that the COMMUNITY needs to pull together- this is NOT about rescues... it is about EDUCATION. If the mill breeders close their doors, the gliders will be euthanized because no one can afford to take them ALL in... if the mill breeders continue as is, the gliders suffer from neglect, poor diet, and terrible conditions... there is only ONE good way to handle this... EDUCATION.

The mill breeders need to be educated on proper care and handling and diets and the PUBLIC needs to be educated about the same (so that if they run across a mill breeder they are not tempted and instead try to offer advice). THIS is the ONLY way that the mill breeder situation can be TRULY addressed FOR THE GOOD OF THE GLIDERS in my hu,mble opinion.
_________________________
Julie
Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
The Zoo: Midnight, Severe & Nala - Claude, Pixie, Tippy & Chili - Scout & Soluna, Theo & Deegie

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#904071 - 02/08/10 09:18 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jaxsuggies]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Paula, you are taking this as a personal assault and I am trying very hard for it to not be personal. I have no desire to crusify you as you put it. I want to help you and others like you. I wan't this to be positive and hopefully to draw people in who might have answers. I want people to learn form our mistakes. Yeah boy, I made mistakes too but maybe, just maybe we can learn from them and others can learn form them.

So maybe you could tell us what you learned and how it could be better handled in the future so that others might not fall into the same pit as we did.
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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#904075 - 02/08/10 09:27 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Anita, Paula, you are BOTH on the same side here. Stop typing and pick up the phone and TALK to each other so words are not mixed up or read wrong.

With that being said...working together will get us further. And Lord knows the ones that are posting here HAVE been working together. grin
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#904076 - 02/08/10 09:27 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jaxsuggies]
josefine Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2701
Loc: Perry, Iowa
i feel it would be invaluable(?)to get w/bourbon on this. she already told me,back @ suz's WAGG, that when we get to this point,it will be that many of the gliders would,unfortunately,need to be put down,as there will be so many of them,that no one will be able to be of much help(w/the 60 now,compared to the thousands then)this is because the proper home would be too few.in this economy,there are many(as myself)that would give anything to adopt more gliders,but are unable to,b/c of the issue of cost.rescues do need medical care more so than what people actually think.i really don't think there can be too quick of a fix w/this,but,w/what has gone on,i feel everyone has done extraordinary well,considering.
josefine
_________________________
Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com

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#904078 - 02/08/10 09:30 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Someone asked me my thoughts on them fostering gliders from their local animal shelter. Here's what I told them. Hope it helps!

This might help you decide. Remember, if you take gliders in, they will become your FULL responsibility. First of all, they have to go to the vet ASAP. YOU pay for it. For the testing, for medicine, for any treatment they need from x-rays to surgery. You'll have to have a quarantine space for them, toys, pouches, wheels, food, bonding, etc. It'll be YOUR responsibility to find new homes for them and that may not be as easy as you think. Until then, they will be YOUR gliders. I would strongly suggest you join all4gliders and/or S.P.I.N. They can be your support, encouragement, source of information and help you re-home your rescues.

Here is the questionnaire I give to everyone who wants to adopt gliders from me. It helps people figure out if they are ready for gliders or not. It will help you figure out if you want to do this.

Remember....you can't save them all. And if you take in too many and get in over your head, you're not helping them.
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#904080 - 02/08/10 09:33 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: josefine]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
i feel it would be invaluable(?)to get w/bourbon on this


Is Bourbon 5013c or an agent of a licensed rescue shelter? If not, Bourbon would not be given any of the rescues from a shut down such as Arlington (when it is known as a crime scene)neither.

THAT is part of the issue, although we have those who WANT to do rescue, there are not that many out there that are LEGAL to do it.

THAT is what needs to be worked on and it wont be done overnight for sure. grin
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#904082 - 02/08/10 09:36 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: josefine]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: josefine
i feel it would be invaluable(?)to get w/bourbon on this. she already told me,back @ suz's WAGG, that when we get to this point,it will be that many of the gliders would,unfortunately,need to be put down,as there will be so many of them,that no one will be able to be of much help(w/the 60 now,compared to the thousands then)this is because the proper home would be too few.in this economy,there are many(as myself)that would give anything to adopt more gliders,but are unable to,b/c of the issue of cost.rescues do need medical care more so than what people actually think.i really don't think there can be too quick of a fix w/this,but,w/what has gone on,i feel everyone has done extraordinary well,considering.
josefine


But Josefine, I think the alternative would be much worse. If those thousands of glider are left in the system and have many joeys, we could very easily be looking at tens of thousands of gliders that need rescued or euthanized in a few short years.

So that is what I am asking. Where do we go and how do we get there?

Those are great points Peggy, and exactly what I was talking about. There is more to it than just having a big heart and the want to.


Edited by hushpuppy (02/08/10 09:38 AM)
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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#904088 - 02/08/10 09:50 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
TWilson
Unregistered


Just catching up here, will post when I can get the hubby out the door.

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#904092 - 02/08/10 09:53 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
Anita, I swear I am not thinking this is an attack on me or anything like that and I am sorry if I came out that way. Your post was great, and just like I was hit with the reality of the current rescue homes, I believe so was you. Both you and I came to the same conclusion. We are not ready both in educational terms or financial terms to take on a big amount of rescues. We are also not legally ready for anything like that. There are many rescuers out there, which is great. Most of us follow just about the same standards such as quarantine, vet care, finding forever homes, etc. What we are missing is the legal part.

I also believe that we as a community need to come together and be prepared for the worst. We need to have funds stashed away, supplies ready to go and educated rescuers or rescuer agents ready to go. How do we accomplish that? I sincerely do not know at this time. It needs to be a community effort.

I am happy for your post and I hope that we as a community can come up with solutions for our issues.
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#904097 - 02/08/10 10:00 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jaxsuggies]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
(BIG SIGH)TY Paula, I tried so hard to point to the huge need in our tiny community without hurting anyone. I LUVS ya girl and I am a big supporter of both you and Julie. I don't know if we can make the changes that need to go along with rescue, but I sure hope we can at least talk about it and maybe set some ground work for other to follow.

What I have learned as a volunteer is that if I am ever asked to do this again, I will arrange to meet in a public place to exchange gliders. That is for my safety and the safety of those who are handing the gliders off. That is something that I would not have thought of before.


Edited by hushpuppy (02/08/10 10:02 AM)
_________________________
Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook




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#904098 - 02/08/10 10:07 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy]
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 1013
Loc: Florida
Anita - I LUVS you too !!!! I have learned so much but I am at work now .... I will post later. I just wanted to make sure that you did not think I felt like I was being attacked. I believe this post will be great and will teach anybody who wants to do rescue work what needs to be done.
_________________________
Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!

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#904107 - 02/08/10 10:23 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Srlb]
TWilson
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
i feel it would be invaluable(?)to get w/bourbon on this


Is Bourbon 5013c or an agent of a licensed rescue shelter? If not, Bourbon would not be given any of the rescues from a shut down such as Arlington (when it is known as a crime scene)neither.

THAT is part of the issue, although we have those who WANT to do rescue, there are not that many out there that are LEGAL to do it.

THAT is what needs to be worked on and it wont be done overnight for sure. grin


This is the point that we are at now, it's not just going in John Wayne style and rescuing gliders. There can be severe legal ramifications, and civil suits bought against someone who was only trying to help gliders.

In cases like the Arlington raid, there are only 2 legal rescues that gliders could be released to. Even though someone may have years of rescue experience, without a license stating you are a legal rescue or an agent of said, you cannot help.

I believe with the economy and the numbers of gliders out there now, we will face more situations like Arlington in the very near future. Are we prepared should there be a mill breeder shut down or closing their shop? Not even close! I would LOVE to be able to help, but here again, I sit able, qualified to handle rescues, and have the resources needed but all that does NOT make me legal to do anything and therefore, me and many others with more years of doing rescue can only sit on the sidelines and watch.

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#904110 - 02/08/10 10:35 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16733
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
I personally think another thing that one must figure out is what is a TRUE *rescue*

To me,personally, I view these gliders mentioned in this thread as rehomes...NOT rescues.

These gliders were said to be in good health, sweet and taken care of when they arrived at the home they are in now.

Just because a person has a large number of gliders does NOT make them a Mill. Nor does it mean that when they are no longer able to operate their business, their gliders than turn into rescues.

To me, a rescue is an animal who without proper help and vet care would die. The animals that were associated with the Arlington Raid...those we in every sense of the word RESCUES. When animals have to eat the carcasses of the dead animals around them to survive, or are going without food/water for days at a time, have health or missing limbs, etc...those are rescues.

When folks hit hard times and can no longer take care of the animals they chose to have, and they have to find new homes for them, they (in my eyes) are rehomed animals.

Val had summed up the word rescue once in the past and it was the perfect explanation. I hope that she sees this post and will come give her version of a *True Rescue* versus a Rehome.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#904123 - 02/08/10 10:55 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Srlb]
Ali
Unregistered


This is a great discussion. I've heard that a big glider shop here in Utah is shutting its doors and I'm worried about what will happen to all of those poor gliders.

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#904130 - 02/08/10 11:22 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ]
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 235
Loc: Colorado
Can a breeder legally be a "rescue" too?
_________________________
1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake

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#904131 - 02/08/10 11:24 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: LabNGliderMom]
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 3047
Loc: atkins arkansas
Originally Posted By: LabNGliderMom
In the case of these rescues, Anita, we had the support of other rescues from the word go... and though we made mistakes (I.E. we agreed to take them without checking the laws of FL first) we still managed to salvage the situation. I know your feelings were hurt, and for that I am truly sorry- if I could have saved you that pain I gladly would have- but the gliders appear to be safe and well cared for. Beyonfd that, I am not free to comment until our announcement (coming soon!) after which more details about this instance will be posted in the original thread about those gliders.

I agree with you that the COMMUNITY needs to pull together- this is NOT about rescues... it is about EDUCATION. If the mill breeders close their doors, the gliders will be euthanized because no one can afford to take them ALL in... if the mill breeders continue as is, the gliders suffer from neglect, poor diet, and terrible conditions... there is only ONE good way to handle this... EDUCATION.

The MILL BREEDERS need to be educated on proper care and handling and diets and the PUBLIC needs to be educated about the same (so that if they run across a mill breeder they are not tempted and instead try to offer advice). THIS is the ONLY way that the mill breeder situation can be TRULY addressed FOR THE GOOD OF THE GLIDERS in my hu,mble opinion.


but "managing to solve" something is not always whats gonna happen! seems like the situation worked out this time, but what about next time someone *forgets* to look at something as HUGE as Florida state law?? even with help, it seems like this rescue group was still not ready. i REALLY dont want to upset anybody, im just voicing my opinion just like everybody else on this topic. Everybody here seems they feel they are in the right, and the other side needs to "lay off or get help"... we are all in agreement that everything should be for the GOOD OF THE GLIDER, but i dont see how bulldozing into the situation (from either side!) can help! things like this topic on this forum is GREAT because it DOES get this subject out there. but i feel everybody *does* need to look into it a little better.... we all have room for improvement here!
_________________________
~ERIN~ momma to:ceasar(boxer),Chili(pug),Badcat(black cat) and Juliette(ragamuffin)~Apple:grey:and Archer:grey:and George Micheal:grey:Maybe:grey:and Jasper :wfb:,husband Jordan and daughter Azlyn!heart

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#904135 - 02/08/10 11:29 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: eterrell84]
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 3047
Loc: atkins arkansas
hushpuppy.... didnt you help transfer the "first wave" of gliders? so you helped with the rescue?
_________________________
~ERIN~ momma to:ceasar(boxer),Chili(pug),Badcat(black cat) and Juliette(ragamuffin)~Apple:grey:and Archer:grey:and George Micheal:grey:Maybe:grey:and Jasper :wfb:,husband Jordan and daughter Azlyn!heart

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#904150 - 02/08/10 11:52 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: eterrell84]
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 3753
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: eterrell84
hushpuppy.... didnt you help transfer the "first wave" of gliders? so you helped with the rescue?


No one transported these gliders except the person who currently is housing them and she is NOT a board memebr, and NOT a part of SPIN just a private citizen who was trying to help. Anita OFFERRED to help transport but transportation and/or SPIN taking posession of the gliders never ocurred.
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#904153 - 02/08/10 11:54 AM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ]
KarenE Offline
Owner

Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 41153
Loc: LittleRock, AR USA
Thank you, Anita, for bringing this discussion to GliderCENTRAL.

Eddie and I have felt standards within the rescue community are long overdue and should be across the board.

We know there are some rescuers in the community who have tried very hard to set basic standards for the rescue homes to follow while others do not like those standards.

There should never be a double standard.

This is different, I believe, than what you are talking about but also needs to be addressed within the glider community.

Eddie and I are trying very hard to make changes and move GliderCENTRAL forward. One area possibly being in the area of rescues, but we will never be able to do that the way rescuers are at this time.

This is an extremely important thread, not only for what happened in this particular situation with the 60 gliders, but for rescuers in the glider community.

Please everyone, let's keep personal feelings, as much as possible, out of this topic so we can keep it open.

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#904166 - 02/08/10 12:15 PM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE]
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 3047
Loc: atkins arkansas
***"Thank you HushPuppy (Anita) for providing the transportation to get the first "wave" of 23 of these gliders up to meet me tomorrow- your help is SO appreciated!***"
saw this on another post and just asumed that she helped i guess... sorry!
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#904168 - 02/08/10 12:23 PM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE]
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mims, Florida, USA
Ty Karen, and I hope we can keep it in a good place where anyone who wants to rescue can do so and know that what they are doing is not only legal, but also a move that makes the gliders lives better. No one has offended me in anyway and I hope that I have not offended anyone.

I am not a rescue and I know that I don't have the stuff that it takes to make a good rescue. That is why I so intensely respect those who do this and who make these hard choices. It is not something that should be entered into lightly. I see it as more of a calling.

eterrell84, yes I would have picked these gliders up and delivered them to Julie. But events happened and I was unable to do that. And I would do it again tomorrow if they needed me. I trust them and I know that they are working to get the proper things in place and I think they trust me also. This is not about SPIN. This is about helping others who like SPIN have a heart for rescueing learn that there are standards and laws and red flags that should be thought about long before the gliders start coming in. Can we keep it this discussion there? Can we Keep it about how to help those who want to rescue?
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#904172 - 02/08/10 12:39 PM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: josefine]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: josefine
i feel it would be invaluable(?)to get w/bourbon on this.


I think uniting the community and continuing to focus on EDUCATION is crucial.

I think CONSTANTLY biting our tongues, rethinking our words, checking to see what the "real world" hears when we speak is critical. We cannot continue to attack -- not each other in this community, and not people trying to do the right thing. We MUST be a support group of one another, not a group in which our own members fear the attack of "the community."

There are some people who talk talk talk talk and don't *DO* anything. Their words MUST become less important to all of us. We need to begin judging people by what's in their HEARTS. Or better yet - not judging each other at all - just supporting and offering love.

There are also those who think they deserve some sort of respect or admiration because of some perceived "status" in this community. As one of my favorite songs says "You might be a big fish in a little pond. Doesn't mean you've won." I am no respecter of "person." People need to be seen for their works, not their words or status.
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#904179 - 02/08/10 12:58 PM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ValkyrieMome]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
Anita, thank you so much for this thread! Karen is right, this is one area we would like to change in GC's policy, but the way it is now it cannot happen!!!!

Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
There are also those who think they deserve some sort of respect or admiration because of some perceived "status" in this community. As one of my favorite songs says "You might be a big fish in a little pond. Doesn't mean you've won." I am no respecter of "person." People need to be seen for their works, not their words or status.


Alden, you are correct. As Karen mentioned there should not be a double standard and it seems the ones you are talking about above think other wise.

Just like the raffle stuff, and breeders, rescues should have standards and be as legal as possible. Status means nothing if you are not on the up and up, playing slide of hands, and not trying to work with everyone!

We want to add the terms rescue and rehomes to our glossary and will open a post and then a poll soon!!!
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#904194 - 02/08/10 01:35 PM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: gliderdad79]
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 2511
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: gliderdad79

Just like the raffle stuff, and breeders, rescues should have standards and be as legal as possible.


EXACTLY!

I recently made a post about this very thing on The Sweet Spot. I see disaster coming for our community rescue process if we don't make changes. Some of us began the process of making changes years ago, but you know how that goes and how things get perceived and so on and so on.

Peggy - I am here, but have very little time to respond. I will look up and copy and paste my definition of a "rescue" as it applies to Kingdom Kritters soon.

There have been many great points made in this thread so far, and I really hope that they continue.

One thing that I hear very often is that many of our rescue homes/rescuers don't want to go through the trouble to be licensed, registered, 501c3, whatever because of the cost, the time it takes to do so and the regulations by both state and federal governing bodies that must be followed once you do.
First, I say - why not? If helping with rescues is something you want to do, then there are options. BUT, if you feel called to be a RESCUE HOME, then you must be concerned about just more than your heart. Being a RESCUE HOME is not just about taking in a glider and finding them a new home and caring for them while they are with you. That is the FUN part of rescue work, but is not at all everything that is required. Why would anyone jeopardize their own gliders, their family, their finances and their home by disregarding the law while posting all over the internet that they are a RESCUER/RESCUE HOME and able to take in both gliders and donations (monetary or material)? I do not understand that at all.

The reality is that most of us that ARE either registered, 501c3, licensed, or appointed as agents of agencies that are (or ALL of the above) understand that rescue work is far more work, paperwork and accountability than one would think.

There is room for ALL levels of rescue work in this community. BUT, the legal responsibility for rescues that are legally seized will ONLY be transferred to properly licensed facilities. That is just a reality. So, if you want to help out, but don't want to go through all the legalities of becoming licensed/registered, etc for yourself, why not contact one of our ALREADY legal and established rescue homes and discuss becoming a legal agent of their rescue home? I know that I am open to taking on agents, and have already done so.


A few things need to happen in this community:
1) Standards for rescue work must be set. Karen and Eddie, I would love to talk with you both about this more.

2) We MUST begin to follow those standards, one of which must include following the law.

3) We MUST use as our mentors those organizations who ALREADY understand the law and the standards set for rescue work outside of this community. It is not enough to consult other "established and experienced" rescuers if they are not, themselves, already involved in this process. It is helpful, but you just slow your own progress. If someone is not ALREADY legal and following a set of written standards, then relying on them for advice could leave you having to take 3 steps back again and again later on down the road. This is not because they don't love gliders or understand the process, but it is because they do not have the experience to properly guide you along your journey - there may be things they have never considered or encountered.
If you are not comfortable with your choices within this community, look outside of the glider community for this type of mentoring from a qualified organization or individual. YES, we should learn from the experience and mistakes of those that have gone before us. No sense continuing to repeat things over and over again if we can learn from someone else and do better from the "giddy-up".

The rescue situation in this community is very concerning to me. Has been for a long time. It has not stopped me from being part of the community, from taking the beatings that I have taken for speaking my mind on this issue, from taking in, rehabilitating and re-homing many lovely gliders, or from becoming one of our legally registered rescue homes.


Edited by Jackie_Chans_Mom (02/08/10 02:05 PM)
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#904195 - 02/08/10 01:40 PM Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jaxsuggies]
josefine Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 2701
Loc: Perry, Iowa
would there be any way to get the vets involved in this?Florida is such a huge state,from Pensacola to Miami,there must be some of them that would be willing to help. jmo
josefine
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