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#927574 - 04/07/10 11:08 AM Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
So I have a theory about Mosaic genetics... I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable members will be able to back me up, or correct this. I don't usually meddle with genetics, but I think I may be on to something.


Let me start with the WF gene. It is a dominant gene, so both homozygous AND heterozygous gliders will look like WF gliders.


Lets label WF as "F" and standard grey as "f"



So, a "super" WF (any WF that when bred with a standard grey only produces WF joeys)
is homozygous for the WF gene. Its alleles look like this:

FF

A normal, heterozygous, WF can produce either WF or grey when paired with a grey, so its alleles look like this:

Ff


Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the theory behind why higher gen WF gliders are more desirable. The chance that they are homozygous for WF, or "super" WF gliders increases with each gen.





So, here's my theory:


Wouldn't the mosaic gene work the same way? My interest was piqued when a potential buyer for my little mosaic joey told me that she wanted to breed her to an unrelated mo male. She has also made a post about this titled Would You Do It?.


I know that mosaics are more expensive than WF, so people just breed them to standard greys because at least some of the joeys will be MOs.


Well, what if people started breeding "super" MOs that would ONLY produce mosaic joeys when paired with standard greys? I think this would increase their value.

Having a "super" MO would be very useful in proving other breeding theories... I know someone wants to breed a mosaic creme-ino.... well a super MO would provide that answer with the very first joey.





Ok, that's about it. Any ideas? I know the MO lines were too close together to do any breeding like this a few years ago, but now the lines have been bred out to the point that the test joey that Heather_Wilder created on The Pet Glider database has an inbred percentage of just 2.5%



Please go easy on me all of you genetics experts!
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


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#927583 - 04/07/10 11:37 AM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
How do you know you have a "Super" and who to pair it with? I would think you don't know you have a super till after they've produced a pattern.

Am I missing something?
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~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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#927587 - 04/07/10 11:43 AM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: jacknsally]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Exactly Nancy... that's why people advertise their WF as 3rd gen or 5th gen.... the higher the gen, the higher the chance that the glider is a "super" or homozygous WF.

You wouldn't know until you breed to a standard grey, but it would be just like the WF gene... I also have a feeling that the "super" mosaics may be lighter and flashier than the heterozygous ones... kind of like how the super WF gliders are much lighter than the others.
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


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#927591 - 04/07/10 12:01 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 1268
Loc: WI
My Super whiteface is a 2nd generation and is not lighter than my other Whitefaces. Her 1st generation mate is actually lighter than she is.

So this is not always the case, yes you could get a super Mo, but you probably would not be able to tell the difference. Sometimes you probably could, just like sometimes you could tell the difference in a super WF.

The value of Mo's is going down so fast, because there are so many of them now (plus economy) I really don't think having a potential super mo is going to increase the value much at all.

Then you get into problems with inbreeding eventually. If you keep crossing all the mosaic lines to try to get a super mo, you're going run out eventually... How high of a generation number can you tack onto a Mo before you can't anymore, or are inbreeding again? There are already sterility problems with one of the lines, you would probably have to cross the non-sterile with that line eventually, and then you are introducing sterility to the non-sterile line.

Not to make it all a slippery slope or anything, but I really do not see anything but potential problems if people start doing this to try for a mo that produces mo's 100% of the time.
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#927592 - 04/07/10 12:06 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3570
Loc: Kansas City, MO
Seeing as you can pair mo and mo and the genetic possibility is only 75% mo's I don't think playing with lines trying to get as many mosaics as possible is necessary, aren't there enough out there that can't get good homes so that breeders are cutting prices to a 4th of what they were costing a year ago?
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Lauren's Animal Kingdom
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#927593 - 04/07/10 12:08 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Glide_Bye_Lily

I see your point... and I think the same is true with higher gen WF... the chance of inbreeding DOES increase... but just as the lines have been bred out in the past, they will be in the future. **look at the new platinums**

The same happens with dogs... when a breed is new, inbreeding and line breeding is used so that the desirable characteristics are achieved... look at the "foundation" gliders for the leu lines, creme-ino line, MO lines, Albinos etc... they were all inbred or line bred in the beginning. There is a post about this, and that's not what I'm trying to figure out here. Yes, there is a sterility issue with some MO lines, but I believe breeders are doing a good job of breeding that out.

So back to the topic at hand... a "super" MO would be more valuable... but by how much? I don't know... nor do I care all that much. I'm just wondering if anyone else believes this could be a possibility.

I'm not saying I think we should all start breeding for super MO's, I'm just asking if you think the gene works in that simple dominance way where a homozygous mosaic would be possible.
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


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#927595 - 04/07/10 12:12 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Laurens_Babies]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
Seeing as you can pair mo and mo and the genetic possibility is only 75% mo's I don't think playing with lines trying to get as many mosaics as possible is necessary, aren't there enough out there that can't get good homes so that breeders are cutting prices to a 4th of what they were costing a year ago?

-I agree. But please keep to the topic here. I'm posing a genetics question, and I think this could lead to a very interesting discussion. Yes the price of mosaics has gone down due to the recent economy and increase in the number of MOs available, but I'm wanting to talk about the hypothetical stuff here because I think the genetics is interesting.
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


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#927597 - 04/07/10 12:19 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I personally don't believe in "super wf" gliders.

I have my 2nd gen wfs that produced nothing but wf joeys. From some of their 3rd gen joeys that I've kept or have been in breeding programs with others, only produced wf joeys.

Atleast until my last little joey. He should have been a 4.5 gen wf but instead is a little black beauty!

I think the term "super wf" was put on gliders "off hand".

I would very much like to see some scientific genetic studies that shows there IS such a thing as "super wf".
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#927598 - 04/07/10 12:24 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 1268
Loc: WI
What is the topic you want discussed?

It seems like we're trying to answer you, but you're saying we're going off topic? dunno
_________________________
Allie

Skin baby:Rhydian
Kitties:Putz.Squeak.Pinky.Sparta.Francis.Harley
Puppies:Moxie.Piper Mae Sniffer

5/17/12Templeton
5/14/09Xena
2/13/09Fritz
10/23/12JD

Meet our Glider Rainbow!
www.wisconsinsugargliders.webs.com

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#927600 - 04/07/10 12:27 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Laurens_Babies]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
Seeing as you can pair mo and mo and the genetic possibility is only 75% mo's



I think you're a little off here... yes, one possibility would be 75%... but the possibilities do vary.

Mosaic= M
gray= m

If you paired two MO's together, here are the different possibilities:


Parent 1: Mm
Parent 2: Mm
** MM chance: 25% Mm chance: 50% mm chance: 25% **


Parent 1: MM
Parent 2: Mm
** MM chance: 50% Mm chance: 50% mm chance: 0% **


Parent 1: MM
Parent 2: MM
** MM chance: 100% Mm chance: 0% mm chance: 0%**




Does anyone know if the dominant mosaic gene is simple dominance? I think it is, which would make this work... Please correct me if I'm wrong.
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site

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#927601 - 04/07/10 12:31 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Glide_Bye_Lily
What is the topic you want discussed?

It seems like we're trying to answer you, but you're saying we're going off topic? dunno

- I'm just trying to discuss genetics... I'm not trying to talk about whether or not breeding for this is ethically good to do. It's all hypothetical and focused on learning more about the genetics.


I think you made some good points, but I also think that we could have an entire thread about breeding ethics (I'm sure we do have a few on that topic!)
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site

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#927603 - 04/07/10 12:34 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 1268
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: oakley
So, here's my theory:[/size]

Wouldn't the mosaic gene work the same way? [/color] Technically yes, it would work the same way.

My interest was piqued when a potential buyer for my little mosaic joey told me that she wanted to breed her to an unrelated mo male. She has also made a post about this titled Would You Do It?.


I know that mosaics are more expensive than WF, so people just breed them to standard greys because at least some of the joeys will be MOs.


Well, what if people started breeding "super" MOs that would ONLY produce mosaic joeys when paired with standard greys? I think this would increase their value. [/color] Probably not too much.

Having a "super" MO would be very useful in proving other breeding theories... I know someone wants to breed a mosaic creme-ino.... well a super MO would provide that answer with the very first joey.

[/color] How would this prove first try? Yes you would get mosaics, but creme-ino is recessive and you need an allele from each parent, It's not a guarantee that it would work first try.





Ok, that's about it. Any ideas? I know the MO lines were too close together to do any breeding like this a few years ago, but now the lines have been bred out to the point that the test joey that Heather_Wilder created on The Pet Glider database has an inbred percentage of just 2.5%



Please go easy on me all of you genetics experts!
_________________________
Allie

Skin baby:Rhydian
Kitties:Putz.Squeak.Pinky.Sparta.Francis.Harley
Puppies:Moxie.Piper Mae Sniffer

5/17/12Templeton
5/14/09Xena
2/13/09Fritz
10/23/12JD

Meet our Glider Rainbow!
www.wisconsinsugargliders.webs.com

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#927605 - 04/07/10 12:35 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Dancing
I personally don't believe in "super wf" gliders.

I have my 2nd gen wfs that produced nothing but wf joeys. From some of their 3rd gen joeys that I've kept or have been in breeding programs with others, only produced wf joeys.

Atleast until my last little joey. He should have been a 4.5 gen wf but instead is a little black beauty!

I think the term "super wf" was put on gliders "off hand".

I would very much like to see some scientific genetic studies that shows there IS such a thing as "super wf".



^^I think this is a VERY valid point to what I'm trying to discuss here. You cannot label a glider as a "super" WF until it is proven to be so by breeding. If you look into the simple mendelian genetics of the WF gene... it would be possible to breed multiple generations and still have the recessive trait (gray) show up every now and then. The higher the generation really just gives you a better chance of having that homozygous or "super" (like 66% het vs 33%)
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site

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#927608 - 04/07/10 12:44 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Quote:
How would this prove first try? Yes you would get mosaics, but creme-ino is recessive and you need an allele from each parent, It's not a guarantee that it would work first try.



Good point! I suppose having a MM mosaic would be useful, but it still wouldn't guarantee mo colored creme-ino's!
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site

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#927609 - 04/07/10 12:53 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
I think Suggiemom has 2 MOs currently together. You are right that the lines have been bred out due to the fact that it is a dominant trait. The thing is I have seen gliders labelled as Super Creminos too who hadn't even been bred yet, genetically speaking, how do you know you have a MM instead of a Mm?

I don't feel it's wrong to put Mo and Mo together but when it comes to COI, I look at a pairs COI and try to make sure any line I match their joeys with will lower the COI. I think that is better for the lines. This is something I have to look at closely since I am breeding within the cremino line. I think if you keep crossing MOs to get a line of Supers....you will eventually be bringing the COI back up. When I decided to breed, I did it because the genetics interested me so. A goal I set for myself is if I want to go with genetics and new color variations, I'd still need to strive for lowering the COI each generation.

I wanted to note I am on the band wagon trying to make a MO cremino, but I'm not sure if a "Super" cremino or MO would have worked considering unless you have run DNA, you can't really tell if they are Super even if they come from a Super line. I even spoke to a large breeder about this and she still had doubts about the Super line continuing to be Super.


Edited by Tish84 (04/07/10 12:57 PM)
_________________________
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Lana (Siberian Husky)
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#927613 - 04/07/10 01:00 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I guess here is what has me confused.

Start with the definitions.

Homozygous refers to having identical alleles for a single trait.

Heterozygous refers to having two different alleles for a single trait.

In theory, there "should" be hets for mosaic or hets for wf (as we use the term in relationship to gliders) but for some odd reason, gliders just don't work that way.

We know that for a glider to be mosaic, it has to be homozygous or it wouldn't express the trait. Same for the wf.

In simpler terms. You have to have one mosaic parent to get a mosaic joey. You have to have one wf parent to get a wf joey. Because of that, we (the general public) will say there is no such thing as "het for" mosaic or wf. This has been shown over time with the wf gliders. All those years where breeders sold "het for wf" only to find out that two "hets for wf" wouldn't/couldn't produce wf joeys.

If you put a wf or mosaic with a grey. You are introducing OTHER alleles to the soup. Since a grey can't be homozygous for wf (or it would be a wf), you are still working on the same "gamble" that the wf/grey pair will produce something other than wf. Just because out of the 12 or 20 joeys they have, none are grey, does not mean that the wf parent is a "super wf". It just is the luck of the genetic draw that each of those joeys got the wf allele sequencing right to make it a wf.

If you breed two mosaics, then you should be able to produce nothing but mosaics but that doesn't make either one or their offspring a "super mosaic". Because when you then put that offspring with a non mosiac, you still have the chance of non mosaic joeys. Again, it is luck of the genetic draw.

In theory though, IF we could run dna panels on gliders, we might be able to take two "hets" and put them together and MAYBE the alleles would line up just right (getting one wf allele from one parent and one from the other) to make a wf joey from non wf "het" parents. We just haven't seen this.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#927618 - 04/07/10 01:05 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Tish84]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Tish,

You are right. There really is no way of knowing what a glider is without DNA testing or by breeding the glider.

I've seen the super cremeinos too... and I think the term "super" is being mis-used frequently.


SUPER is a term that labels the glider as being homozygous for whatever trait he/she may have. Homozygous means two of the same allele... A glider can be Homozygous domnant, or homozygous recessive.

In fact, it would be correct to label all leucistic gliders as homozygous or "super" but the term has evolved to mean more than just homozygous.

I think that people are more loosely using the term to mean "I think this glider will only produce more of the same color if it is paired with a standard gray". This kind of labeling is incorrect. I think it is better to stick with the generation.


A 5th gen WF will be MORE likely to be homozygous than a 1st gen.


I agree with you about SUPER lines as well.... there really cannot be a SUPER line... only SUPER individuals... so perhaps we should keep counting gen and let that speak for itself. dunno
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site

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#927619 - 04/07/10 01:09 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
The tricky thing about genetics and the punnet square is every new joey get a restart of the same punnet square the last one did.

I knew when I started breeding MOs and Creminos together my punnet square was gonna get a lot more tricky considering MO has been proven to be Co-dominant, but cremino hasn't YET.
_________________________
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Lana (Siberian Husky)
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Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


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#927621 - 04/07/10 01:11 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
It isn't as simple as a glider being homozygous or heterozygous...it gets more complicated when you factor in which is dominant or recessive too.


On a semi-side note. If we could get all this figured out, I bet we could have more wf/wt joeys! Those seem to be one of the hardest combos to produce. The wt gene is apprarently so confusing that even getting wt joeys is difficult. (even from two wt parents)
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#927622 - 04/07/10 01:13 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Dancing
I guess here is what has me confused.

Start with the definitions.

Homozygous refers to having identical alleles for a single trait.

Heterozygous refers to having two different alleles for a single trait.

In theory, there "should" be hets for mosaic or hets for wf (as we use the term in relationship to gliders) but for some odd reason, gliders just don't work that way.

We know that for a glider to be mosaic, it has to be homozygous or it wouldn't express the trait. Same for the wf.


- Really?!? I didn't know this... I thought that if a mosaic produced a gray joey, that joey was homozygous recessive... or "mm" Are you saying that some gray joeys from mosaics are "Mm" and could be bred to other hets to produce MO's "MM"? If this is true, then it changes everything I thought about Mosaic and WF dominance.

In simpler terms. You have to have one mosaic parent to get a mosaic joey. You have to have one wf parent to get a wf joey. Because of that, we (the general public) will say there is no such thing as "het for" mosaic or wf. This has been shown over time with the wf gliders. All those years where breeders sold "het for wf" only to find out that two "hets for wf" wouldn't/couldn't produce wf joeys.

-Now I'm confused.... I think that a het MO would still look like a MO, but its alleles would be "Mm" Right?? You're saying that breeding gray joeys from WF will NOT produce any WF which would make sense if the WF gene is what I think it is... this also means that a homozygous dominant MO "MM" would only produce MO's when paired with a gray...


If you put a wf or mosaic with a grey. You are introducing OTHER alleles to the soup. Since a grey can't be homozygous for wf (or it would be a wf), you are still working on the same "gamble" that the wf/grey pair will produce something other than wf. Just because out of the 12 or 20 joeys they have, none are grey, does not mean that the wf parent is a "super wf". It just is the luck of the genetic draw that each of those joeys got the wf allele sequencing right to make it a wf.

-Now this I agree completely with. The only way to know for sure would be to do DNA testing... and I don't think that's happening anytime soon
wink

If you breed two mosaics, then you should be able to produce nothing but mosaics but that doesn't make either one or their offspring a "super mosaic". Because when you then put that offspring with a non mosiac, you still have the chance of non mosaic joeys. Again, it is luck of the genetic draw.

-I think this would be true for "Mm" joeys... I'm not saying that two MO's will produce all "MM" MO's, I'm just theorizing that an "MM" MO could be produced

In theory though, IF we could run dna panels on gliders, we might be able to take two "hets" and put them together and MAYBE the alleles would line up just right (getting one wf allele from one parent and one from the other) to make a wf joey from non wf "het" parents. We just haven't seen this.
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#927623 - 04/07/10 01:14 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Tish84]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Tish84
The tricky thing about genetics and the punnet square is every new joey get a restart of the same punnet square the last one did.

I knew when I started breeding MOs and Creminos together my punnet square was gonna get a lot more tricky considering MO has been proven to be Co-dominant, but cremino hasn't YET.

-I haven't even thought about this... I know my knowledge of genetics is VERY basic, and glider genetics do seem to be very difficult!
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#927625 - 04/07/10 01:17 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Dancing

On a semi-side note. If we could get all this figured out, I bet we could have more wf/wt joeys! Those seem to be one of the hardest combos to produce. The wt gene is apprarently so confusing that even getting wt joeys is difficult. (even from two wt parents)


^^ I haven't even LOOKED at wt... it seems to be REALLY confusing. I do think we (breeders and genetics fanatics) on a whole are making progress though... maybe we could get this figured out someday? **Oh wouldn't it be loverly tounge
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#927626 - 04/07/10 01:17 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Just another question that could play into things.

A human can have one how many different blood types?

Do gliders have different blood types too? If so, could the blood type be a cause or effect of the different gene sequencing and could that effect the colors we get (mosaic or not from the same parents)?
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#927627 - 04/07/10 01:21 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
this also means that a homozygous dominant MO "MM" would only produce MO's when paired with a gray...


Even if the mosaic parent is MM, the joey still gets half of it's alleles from the grey parent. So, you get the "gamble" from the grey parent.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#927628 - 04/07/10 01:23 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Just another question that could play into things.

A human can have one how many different blood types?

Do gliders have different blood types too? If so, could the blood type be a cause or effect of the different gene sequencing and could that effect the colors we get (mosaic or not from the same parents)?


Blood deals in Alleles as well so we can be:

AO or AA (referred to as A)
BO or BB (referred to as B)
AB
O
Then there's the rh factor where we can be plus or minus
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#927629 - 04/07/10 01:24 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
this also means that a homozygous dominant MO "MM" would only produce MO's when paired with a gray...


Even if the mosaic parent is MM, the joey still gets half of it's alleles from the grey parent. So, you get the "gamble" from the grey parent.


I see what you mean now... it's the gray that is giving the gamble allele, not the MO.
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~__/>
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#927630 - 04/07/10 01:24 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
this also means that a homozygous dominant MO "MM" would only produce MO's when paired with a gray...


Even if the mosaic parent is MM, the joey still gets half of it's alleles from the grey parent. So, you get the "gamble" from the grey parent.


Yes anytime grey is added back in, it gets it's fair shot whether the parent is a MO (Mm) or a grey (mm), grey gets back into the equation.
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#927631 - 04/07/10 01:27 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Tish84]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Tish84

Yes anytime grey is added back in, it gets it's fair shot whether the parent is a MO (Mm) or a grey (mm), grey gets back into the equation.


I get that aspect now...

Are you saying that even a cross between a "MM" and a "mm" could result in gray joeys??

I do agree that anytime gray is bred to, the gray gene will once again be introduced... do we know that grey is 100% recessive or is it another mystery?
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


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#927634 - 04/07/10 01:29 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Tish84]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
All this is discussing the "genotype" theories. Anyone considered the "phenotype" theories?

A phenotype is any observable characteristic or trait of an organism: such as its morphology, development, biochemical or physiological properties, or behavior. Phenotypes result from the expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors and possible interactions between the two.

Look at the mosaic joeys Alicia produces. She seems to have some secret lab (or atleast is accused of having a secret lab) where she is creating an abundance of extraordinary joeys. Maybe there is some truth to the theroy of Alicia's joeys?
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#927635 - 04/07/10 01:29 PM Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
I never thought about blood type before...

I know that dogs have blood types (although the exact number is debated) so it would seem possible for gliders to have blood types as well.
_________________________
Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


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Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
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RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


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