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#940815 - 05/08/10 01:14 PM Creamino/Albino Lines...
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
I got into looking into genetics because I am completely fascinated by it... I am getting pretty good with the WF, leu, & Mo lines but I am having a problem researching the albino & creamino lines...
I can only fine ONE of each line...

Is Mo & Disco the only Albino line?

Is Mars & Hera/Venus the only creamino line?
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#940839 - 05/08/10 01:32 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: krysKritters]
jacknsally Offline
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Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
From Susan(FFR) creminos - If you search through all her lines, you may find others. But just a quick glance, there is also Mick w/Hera & Bolillo/Reba
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#940856 - 05/08/10 02:08 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: jacknsally]
SugareeErin Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3843
Loc: Lisle, Illinois
As far as I know there is only one albino line, that is why they are so rare. Priscilla or Sheila would be good people to ask about this.
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#940898 - 05/08/10 03:55 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: SugareeErin]
krysKritters Offline
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Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
Thanks!
smile
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#940917 - 05/08/10 04:32 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: krysKritters]
Guerita135 Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
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Loc: Ohio
Krys, the Moe and Disco line is also a cremino line. They've produced multiple creminos.
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#944641 - 05/16/10 04:07 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Guerita135]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Mars and Hera... both 100% Hets produced the First Cremino line from Flying Fur Ranch.

There is only one Albino line which came from a pair of 100% Albino Hets by Wherezat. Sheila, Dai Green, Mike Sandridge, and Stacie Jolly and Kris DeRose all had Albino offspring from this one pair of gliders.

As to producing Creminos... the Flying Fur Ranch lineage when crossed with the Albino line does not produce a Cremino unless one of the gliders is a Double Het for both colors. Thus... as I suspected several years ago and responded here on Glider Central in Breeding and Babies Forum... both lines are not one in the same for Cremino.

The Flying Fur Ranch Cremino line and the Albino line producing Creminos are two different color varriations.
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#946687 - 05/17/10 01:30 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Judie]
krysKritters Offline
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Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
I am trying to follow you here Judie... so correct me if I mess it up.

The only albino line is Moe & Disco.
So albino decendants of Moe & Disco (somehow) @ FFR became a creamino line. (Mars & Hera)

But all in all... the is only 1 line of each...
Moe & Disco - Albino
Mars & Hera - Creamino

Are Mars & Hera decendants of Moe & Disco?

I'm sorry if I am messing it up. This all facinates me but it is very hard to get it all straight and I want to be sure I have it correct. smile
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#946689 - 05/17/10 01:34 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: krysKritters]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
I have a little girl whose dad was from Moe and Disco so her lineage is 50% cremino/albino from just her dad's side
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#946700 - 05/17/10 01:59 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: krysKritters]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
Actually Judie, not many pairings were matched up that way and some Creminos have been produced.

The albino has to carry both genes in order to produce the cremino color, but not all albinos produce both genes. So far I know that Princess, Alabaster, Victor (Caesar) carry both albino and Cremino genes. They have produced offspring when Paired with cremino hets from Susan's cremino lines and have produced creminos.
This is the reason we don't see many of them born.
Caeser was paired with WFB females that did not carry the cremino gene, or the albino gene. He is a het for both cremino and albino. Only 50% of his joeys born carried the double gene. One of those I owned and it died the day her first joey turned 8 weeks old. Her joey was neutered. I only retained one more of his joeys, Nikko and he has always been paired with a Mo Leu het. Many of their joeys were sold as pet only. Many of the 100% hets out of Caesar were were sold as albino hets and were bred for albino. The people who purchased them, purchased them to breed for albino, not cremino. Priscilla purchased a brother to Caesar named Dimples(Albino). He does not carry the Cremino gene. He had a son named Smiles who was albino who also did not carry the cremino gene because of course his father Dimples did not carry it and neither did his mother. It is my belief that only one of the parents, Mo and Disco carried the Cremino gene. That would mean that their joeys would be 50% het for cremino also, and not all the albinos born from them would be double hets. The babies born from mixing the two lines together that are creminos vary in color, but tend to be a lighter color when they go through puberty just as a Leu het, mo het, or wfb would change during that time also. Their eyes at birth are a deeper burgandy that the FFR ranch Cremino, but when the mixed joeys go through puberty, not only do their coats lighten, but their eyes do also. This is also the same for those babies that are line bred from the mo and disco line (Brulee and Solomon). It is my belief that Galileo that Kris owns is only albino. Many of the joeys stacie sold as creminos were actually albinos with no cremino gene and when people paired those with a het or another cremino from the ffr line they got normal double hets. The reason is because what they purchased from Stacie was actually albino, not cremino.
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#946976 - 05/18/10 06:15 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Sheila]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
The Cremino colored gliders out of the Albino line are the Albino t+ which all come from Mo and Disco. Dilutes. My understanding of these Albinos is... once they start throwing t+ Dilutes these Cremino colored gliders will not throw an albino unless it is a Double Het for t- and t+. This is because there has been a slight correction with the gene responsible for lack of color so the Albino t- has to be reintroduced again.

The Cremino colored gliders from Flying Fur Ranch are from Mars and Hara (both 100% Cremino Hets) and other hets she pulled from her normal colored gliders.

Creminos from FFR do not go through a color change. From birth to adults... they are the same color which is a very light cream with light reddish taupe stripe/points and burgandy eye color.

I have seen the Albino t+ glider sent to Priscilla a few years ago and also have seen Soloman. Neither of those two gliders compared to the color of the Flying Fur Ranch Creminos. Although they were light in coloration... when compared to a Cremino from the FFR line... there is a differance in coloration. Body color of the Albino t+ Dilute is slightly darker with their points being more of a true Taupe color.

It would seem... an Albino t+ Het when paired to a Cremino Het from FFR would not produce a Cremino. Only possible Hets for one or both color varriations.

Point is.... the Cremino from Flying Fur Ranch is not an Albino t+ Dilute but a varriation of it's own. To mix both varriations together to produce an Albino t+ to a Cremino one has to have Double Hets to do so with in order to produce the Cremino coloration due to the t+ Dilute gene from the Albino.

The Albinos or Albino Hets you listed produced Albino and or Albino t+/Dilutes.

Mars and Hera are not decendents of Mo and Disco. There were two normal colored gliders from a population of Normal Colored gliders who produced set of twin females that were Cremino Colored and their names are Lightning and Thunder which was about five or six years ago.

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#946987 - 05/18/10 06:45 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Judie]
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
So there is 2 creamino lines (FFR & Albino t+/Dilutes)
That should technically be concidered 2 seperate colors because when bred together they do not produce the color. (Unless they are het for both lines)
That is very interesting!

I need to sit down with you two one day to learn all fo this... but I'd need a bottle of advil first! LOL smile
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Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

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#947003 - 05/18/10 07:41 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: krysKritters]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
FFR bred Victor (Albino who throws Albino t+) into some of the Crem-ino lineages. This then would indicate she was working with Possible Double Hets trying to produce both colors.

Albino t+ glider is not a Crem-ino. It should be should be called Albino t+ Dilute and not a Crem-ino.
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#947010 - 05/18/10 08:07 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Judie]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
I'm not too familiar with the albino/creme-ino lines...


I do understand the idea of "dilute" albino though... in the horse world, there really is no true albino. There are, however, cremello horses. To be an albino, a horse would have to have BOTH recessive albino genes (t-). The CREME gene (what we call t+) is dominant, which means that the horse needs only one to show the color cremello.


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#947032 - 05/18/10 08:50 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: oakley]
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2664
Loc: Hudson Valley, NY
Originally Posted By: Judie
FFR bred Victor (Albino who throws Albino t+) into some of the Crem-ino lineages. This then would indicate she was working with Possible Double Hets trying to produce both colors.

Albino t+ glider is not a Crem-ino. It should be should be called Albino t+ Dilute and not a Crem-ino.



So we should actually call the 3 lines like this?

Albino t- Moe & Disco (from Wherezat)
Albino t+ Dilute ??? (from ???)
Creamino Mars & Hera (from FFR)

Who started the Albino t+ line? The glider(s) not humans, I mean...
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Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

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A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.

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#947048 - 05/18/10 09:38 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: krysKritters]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
WOW this thread has some great info
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Lana (Siberian Husky)
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Bunny
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Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


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#947054 - 05/18/10 09:54 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Tish84]
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/05/00
Posts: 5363
Loc: Ok
Judie there have been creminos born that are not dilute when breeding the two lines together. I wasn't sure if you were aware of that.
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#947481 - 05/18/10 10:27 PM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Sheila]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Kris(BabyLoveGliders) and Katarina(ZenExotics) both own creminos that are a result of a cross-breeding of the FFR and Albino lines.

http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=1964
http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=1793
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#947585 - 05/19/10 07:49 AM Re: Creamino/Albino Lines... [Re: Guerita135]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Kris(BabyLoveGliders) and Katarina(ZenExotics) both own creminos that are a result of a cross-breeding of the FFR and Albino lines.

http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=1964
http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=1793


From memory, the one that Kris got (Sorcha) from Stacie, was very much on the diluted side. Her coloring was not as dark or as sharp as other creminos.
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