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#950827 - 05/26/10 03:58 PM Is This Neuter Method Humane?
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
I've been chatting with a fellow Iowan who is new to gliders. He found a vet in my area who he said is doing neuters for $15. This threw me for a loop, so I asked him some questions.

He told me who the vet was. We have been to this vet for our hedgehogs and I have gone with someone to a sugar glider appointment and did ask him a lot of questions. I felt like he was probably a good vet but was not an expert on sugar gliders. He told me he had never done a neuter before & at the time I think he said he would charge $150 to do one, so I never took ours there for a neuter. Based on what this person is saying, it's sounding like some time after I talked to the vet about that, he started looking into it.

He said he called and spoke to the vet, who said that he can charge so little because it is not surgery. He said he would basically "tie a string around the balls and let nature take care of the rest. The doc said there is a little bit of pain at first but that is just because it is uncomfortable. He says it is one less way for them to get infected and also said that he has had good reports about the process." I don't know who these reports are from and I don't know if the vet is administering any pain medication.

I have never heard of his method as being a common procedure for neutering. My gut reaction was that it just doesn't sound right to me to just tie it & let it fall off. I am interested in hearing whether or not any of you have experience with this method and what your thoughts are on it, so we can advise this person about this vet.

Thanks,

Misty

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#950833 - 05/26/10 04:03 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: IowaMisty]
JamieInWA
Unregistered


Never had to neuter...but I would think this would NOT be humane. I can imagine that this would be painful to have tissue death...especially in a sensitive area of his body. Also it seems like they could SM over this.

I guess you should ask yourself if you would do this to your dog or cat...if not, then I wouldn't do it to a glider.

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#950835 - 05/26/10 04:08 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ]
melek007 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 3874
Loc: Eastern NC
I've heard of this and similar methods (such as with a pocket knife). Possible? Yes. Humane? No.

I paid $150 for Levent to be neutered--worth it!
_________________________
~ I miss my Alev, Nese & Levent ~

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#950837 - 05/26/10 04:12 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: melek007]
bdonald25 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 433
Loc: Mississippi
This sounds like the same thing that I have heard on Animal Planet that people do to dogs for docking tails and neutering. I don't think it is an acceptable practice and shouldn't be used on these little guys. I also think that SM could be an issue because of the string around that part of their body without any protection.
_________________________
Barbara

Suggies - Pooka(female) :grey: and Jazz(neutered male) :grey:
Husband and 2 skin kids
Dogs - Shelties: Jeter, Rusty (rescue), and Nemo (rescue)
Cats - Maggie (rescue) and Minnie (rescue)

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#950839 - 05/26/10 04:15 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: melek007]
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 571
Loc: Kenosha,WI
OMG, That is not humane at in any way. That vet should be reported for animal crulety right away.
_________________________
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3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
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Jen
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#950858 - 05/26/10 04:46 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: jen102375]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
The pain involved would most likely lead to self mutilation and it is CRUEL to say the least.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#950888 - 05/26/10 05:24 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: Dancing]
Sarah
Unregistered


Growing up on a farm I have seen this same method used on many cows and pigs, simply because it is cheap and effective when you have many food animals to neuter, but I would never do this to a glider. The testicles are like any other appendage, they have many nerves. Imagine if someone were to tie rubber band tightly around a finger or toe and tell you to wait as the skin turns black and then the appendage eventually falls off. I would not use this vet for your glider!

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#950894 - 05/26/10 05:36 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
I would run far, far away from this vet! It's cruel. I can't imagine and I'd be embarrassed as a vet to say I participate in this practice.
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Aimee & The Monkeys

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#950903 - 05/26/10 05:51 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: DCMuffin]
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 3047
Loc: atkins arkansas
heard of this on cows and stuff... but ive always thought it was really inhumane! please dont do this or let anyone else do this to poor gliders!
_________________________
~ERIN~ momma to:ceasar(boxer),Chili(pug),Badcat(black cat) and Juliette(ragamuffin)~Apple:grey:and Archer:grey:and George Micheal:grey:Maybe:grey:and Jasper :wfb:,husband Jordan and daughter Azlyn!heart

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#950909 - 05/26/10 06:00 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: eterrell84]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Thanks for all of your feedback. Is anyone else aware of any other vets doing this? I'm really curious as to where this vet got his information. He's new to neutering gliders, so maybe this is a chance to somehow educate him. How would you guys suggest we go about doing that without talking down to him? I'd like to refer him to another local vet that does a great job with the neuters, to learn how they do them. I don't think this vet means any harm & I didn't post this to prompt people to flame him, which is why I didn't state his name. He is just inexperienced with glider neuters & maybe he's working off of bad or old information. For now, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. My initial gut reaction though (as apparently was yours too) was that this was not a good neutering method & I would not be taking my gliders there for that. Dancing, I agree about the increased risk of self mutilation. I was worried about that too.

I want to keep a good relationship with this vet because he occasionally sends people our way for glider info & we want to keep educating people in our community who purchase gliders from the Iowa State Fair.

I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,
Misty

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#950910 - 05/26/10 06:01 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ]
hdgliderslave
Unregistered


My family raise goats, sheep, pigs, cows and horses. All of the animals we do the "Banding" Method,as this is called. I cant say with gliders, but with the larger animals it is considered human, because all you do is cut off the blood supply and let nature take its course.

But I agree.. I dont think I would do this on a small animal. (we have had it done to a cats tell for an amputation because there is alot let chance of infection)

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#950916 - 05/26/10 06:16 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
I've heard - actually on "Dirty Jobs" and I don't have any way to confirm - that the larger animals (cows, sheep, horses) do not have nerve endings there, and the banding method is considered humane.

We know that sugar gliders DO have nerve endings there (as do people!), and, to me, it does not seem at all humane.
_________________________
Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.

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#950942 - 05/26/10 07:27 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
sugarmommy
Unregistered


i also live on a farm and we raise cattle. we do the banding method but if they are to old to band then the vet comes out and cuts it off....without putting the cow to sleep...now that to me seems kind of cruel, the cutting part but all 4 of our vets in our town do it that way and they are all very reputable vets...
as for doing it to my glider..no i wouldnt do it to them because of the size and sensitivity issue...the cows dont even pay attention to being banded at all...

now i was watching dirty jobs one nite and they put sheep over a fence sliced open the sack and ripped the testicles off with there teeth and then just used a knife to cut off there tails..that i found very cruel and painful!!!!

docking puppies tails , they are so young they dont even understand whats going on it hurts them for a hour or so...i work at a vet and my mother has always worked for vets plus we raised boxers and got all of there tails docked and declaws removed...

now what makes me really mad is when people bring there LARGE puppies in there for tail docks!!!

lately people have been bringin alot of pit puppies in there docking there tails.....pits arent supposed to have docked tails so i dont get it..

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#950948 - 05/26/10 07:36 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
HeatherB
Unregistered


My grandparents had a cow farm in Ireland and I can confirm that yes they do indeed use this technique and those similar to that. I couldn't imagine it being practiced on animals that are so prone to SM such a sugar gliders though. Not only does it sound inhumane but it sounds very painful and dangerous! sounds like something you would threaten your husband/boyfriend with. "You don't quit that, I am going to tie them!" ooo grin Anyhow, wouldn't recommend it on such delicate little guys. Seems too risky for SM, pain and infection.

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#950956 - 05/26/10 08:06 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ]
SugarGliderCandy
Unregistered


There are procedures that use the tie off and let it fall off techinique--

think umbilical cord
think skin tags
think warts


With sugar gliders they are such finicky creatures and like to nit pick and clean every little speck. THAT is where they get themselves into trouble. They don't know when to quit. LOL

speaking of husbands, lol...
My husband had a vasectomy. They didn't put him out for it. Matter of fact, he was fully aware and we both watched the entire process. They literally 'poked' a hole through the sack, pulled out each tube, cut and cauterized, stuffed the tubes back in and called it a day. Was it inhumane? I guess...depending on which male you ask!? lol

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#950960 - 05/26/10 08:21 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ]
HeatherB
Unregistered


Husband abuse! lol But I absolutely agree with the finickiness of sugar gliders. I think any animal prone to SM should have surgical procedures taken into high consideration and approached with extreme caution. Thankfully, we don't have to worry about humans chewing surgery sites although it would be amusing to watch men walking around with e-collars after surgery. Hehe.

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#950963 - 05/26/10 08:32 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: ]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
With gliders being prone to SM'ing over anything different on their body, I can most assuredly say they would go after the string and the pain it causes. I wonder if he would suggest using this method on humans?

I think if you approached him with the way gliders SM, it might be a way to get him to change his practices.
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#950973 - 05/26/10 09:01 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: suggiemom1980]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I'm sure there will be very heated opinions on this subject regarding the humane treatment of other species. I personally believe it to be incredibly cruel to do on ANY animal.

But this is about gliders. Cows are not known to self mutilate. Pigs either. But gliders certainly will.

I will refrain from posting what I'd like to about banding to dock tails.

I would recommend having him call Dr. Teresa Bradley in Belton MO for neutering consult.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#951028 - 05/27/10 12:03 AM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: Dancing]
Feather Offline
Administrator

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 11939
Loc: Wisconsin
It is very inhumane for a glider to be neutered that way. My veterinarian does a pom off neuter using a CO2 laser and they inject a long acting pain medication into the stalk before the procedure.

When castrating cattle, sheep and pigs when done young it can be done with out medication or tranquilizers.

When they geld a horse they use tranquilizers and pain medications IV prior to castration. At least our veterinarians do here.
_________________________
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Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:


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#951104 - 05/27/10 08:55 AM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: Feather]
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1523
Loc: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Misty, what you are describing is a method that is not humane and any vet that would do this, I would stay away from completely. It's called "Banding".

This is how farmer's neuter cattle and I can't even imagine the pain THEY must be in.

This puts them at more of a risk for SM than any other method. The vet should be told that this is not good practice and I agree with Teresa. Have the vet contact Dr. Bradley to be told of the correct way to neuter gliders.

Please PM me privately on the name of the vet. I have several that asks "who does neuters" in Des Moines, and I would not be a good thing to send them to him until he changes his practices.
_________________________
Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



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#951498 - 05/27/10 10:03 PM Re: Is This Neuter Method Humane? [Re: Marsupial_Mayhem]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


I would bet money that this vet was trying to research the neutering procedure online and found the "string method" on an asvg or similar site that claims to be vet endorsed but is not. By all means please refer him to consult with glider-knowledgeable vets on not only neuters, but many other health issues. I don't think this vet is a mean-spirited person at all but rather, ill-informed which is something that can be remedied if approached tactfully like you say. It sounds like he is open-minded and trying to deal fairly when he/she has said up front they are not experienced with gliders (yet).

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