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#955 - 11/07/02 12:25 AM Stressed glider?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I recently aquired a baby glider who has bonded quite readily with me (and visa versa) and loves to sleep right inside my shirt collar as often as she can. Most of the time she is with me or on me somewhere (she even prefers sleeping with me on my chest than her cozy cage pouch).
My question: I live in a house with a roomate but spend most of my time at my boyfriend's house. Zayda <img border="0" alt="glider" title="" src="graemlins/littleglider.gif" /> has her own roomy cage that I take with us wherever we stay (either at my house or at my boyfriend's). She's familiar with both places, but I am wondering if the back and forth traveling is/will stressing/stress her out.
She has been showing symptoms of stress, however I'm not exactly sure what from. Possibly from diet. She's been having diarrhea off and on for a few days. I have taken her to the vet. Fecal exams came out negative. She was fed fruit and vegetables and Glider Grub before symptoms began but ate mostly the fruit. (When only GG was available she'd hold out for the fruit.) I recently discovered she likes plain tofu and turns her nose up at mealworms. Ah, and she loooves organic applejuice (fed in moderation). She's showing signs of discomfort when she goes to the bathroom (I am usually the bathroom...) and is also showing signs of straining. She crabs before and after defacating/urinating and sometimes hisses. She also rolls around while crabbing and licks herself adamently. (I have not observed any actual biting of herself--I've hardly taken my eye off her for days--however if I impose during a 'fit' I get bitten-ouch!) After that she seems fine. Just yesterday she was the most playful I have seen her--even took a couple of impressive leaps from my boyfriend to me.
I have heard that gliders will show signs of improvement and then decline in health very rapidly. Her cloaca looks swollen so the vet gave us some anti-inflamatory medicine. I'm afraid due to straining she's going to develop a prolapsed rectum, if she hasn't already. She's been getting the proper regular doses for two days now and the swelling varies, not necessarily correlating with the time after and before the medicine is given.
This is somewhat difficult for me to explain, and I'm wondering if this is common or at least if there have been bouts of similar cases.

Little Zayda loves me just as much as I love her--after the vet visit, I got my first face-hug and glider kiss. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If anyone has any comments about the traveling stress issue, or the inflamed cloaca/prolapsed rectum, please help me. I am aware of the many things that gliders are sensitive to, but still need help pinpointing what could be causing my little glider to be ill.

Thank you very much,

Starling <img border="0" alt="worried" title="" src="graemlins/worried2.gif" /> and Zayda <img border="0" alt="[Glider Angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gliderangel.gif" />

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#956 - 11/07/02 12:50 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Starling,

Welcome to GliderCENTRAL. The stress induced by the traveling really varies from glider to glider. I have a couple that handle travel very well, and a couple that do not do well at all during frequent travel. The behavior you are describing sounds more like an impaction or UTI (urinary tract infection) issue. If she has been having loose stools for that long, you really need to keep an eye on her to ensure that she remains hydrated (pull up the skin on the back of her neck, if it does not snap back into place she is probably dehydrated). If fruit is the only thing she will eat, that could be the cause of the loose stools. If it is an impaction or UTI issue, the pain that she is in could very well lead to self mutilation, so continue to be very watchful. I would take her back to the vet ASAP and have them check for the two previously mentioned issues. Hopefully someone else will be able to offer some more possibilities.
_________________________
Craig

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#957 - 11/07/02 12:55 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
in my opinion more than the stress. her diet must change asap. instead of glider grub which is not a proven diet for gliders. switch her to the bourbons' leadbeaters diet. it will make a difference and instead of mealies if she dont eat them offer her with the bml some hard boiled egg or white meat boiled plain chicken. and fruit/ veggies gliders must have the right balance of calcium to live and the bml diet has it. u can also give her dannon vanilla yogurt i use a little daily. if u dont have alot of time to spend with her when u go to your boyfriends i would get her a mate like a nother of the same sex or a nuetered male.

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#958 - 11/07/02 01:07 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Craig,
Thank you for your speedy reply. I took Zayda to the vet yesterday morning. He did not say she looked dehydrated, but explained to me (as you did) how to tell if she becomes so. I know that excessive fruit causes loose stools, and I believe that was the initial cause. However, since yesterday's vet visit I have cut back almost entirely on the fruit and have been feeding her tofu mixed with a little bit of apple juice. Turns out she loves the apple juice, so earlier today I gave her a little to drink. A couple hours later she had diarrhea again, so I'm led to believe the apple juice was the cause of this.
Anyway, we're scheduled for a follow-up on Friday, but I'm going to call in the morning to move the follow-up to tomorrow afternoon.
I will continue to keep an eye on her. Self mutilation is a big fear, as I have read of many instances of it.

Thank you again for your help,

Starling <img border="0" alt="worried" title="" src="graemlins/worried2.gif" /> and Zayda <img border="0" alt="glider" title="" src="graemlins/littleglider.gif" />

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#959 - 11/07/02 01:19 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Angel,
Thanks for your quick reply as well. After the trip to the vet I changed her diet (see previous post). I'm preparing the leadbeater's mix now. When I feed her the tofu mix I add a bit of RepCal for the calcium.
Also, when we travel, she is with me at all times. The only time she isn't with me or on me is when I am in class (college student), which is at most a few hours a day when she is sleeping.

(As a side note, as I type, she's dancing on the keyboard. We are wide awake! She's becoming much more adventerous and jumping around. Cute!)

Thanks again,

Starling and Zayda <img border="0" alt="glider" title="" src="graemlins/littleglider.gif" />

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#960 - 11/07/02 01:21 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
BeetleJuice Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 2724
Loc: Summerville, SC
Starling,

Please let us know what the vet says. I'm really leaning towards UTI so you may want to collect some urine for the vet to test. Place her in some sort of plastic container right when you get her out of the pouch and there is a good chance she will provide one. There are some concerns about Tofu that you may want to investigate once you have her healthy. Ask your vet what he feels about the diet being offered, if he has any concerns we can help with some great alternatives <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I'll be looking forward to an update.

Oooops, sorry, I did not see where you had changed the diet either <img border="0" title="" alt="blush" src="blush.gif" /> . Please do let us know how she progresses though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ 11-07-2002, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: BeetleJuice ]</small>
_________________________
Craig

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#961 - 11/07/02 05:00 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I have been raising gliders for many years. And the thing I have learned with them is....a good diet is invaluable.

Switching back and forth and sort of trying different things...is very hard on the gliders digestive system. One needs to pick a good diet and then stick with it and only offer other things as tid bits and in moderation. Suggest you check out the diet Forum here on Glider Central. For myself...I feed the BML diet plan and have for over four years and have never encounted dietary issues from doing so.

The thing about taking the glider over to a friends and letting the glider visit is another issue also. This is not a wise thing to continue to do on a regular basis and will become another stress factor. Once she is bonded to you it should not be a problem. If for the weekend..take her cage with you.

Remember...some gliders do not handle stress very well and some not at all.

<small>[ 11-09-2002, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#962 - 11/08/02 10:59 PM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


An update...

Zayda and I took a trip to the vet for a follow up this morning. The vet said that she looked better, was still having some swelling but still no parasites. She seems to be doing better and feeling better overall. She is still straining but doesn't go into her "fits" as often or as long or even at all. Her stools are still soft and light tan, but no diarrhea, urine is clear and she's been going regularly. Activity level is up and appetite is improving.
vet said continue with the anti-inflamatories for a couple of days. Still not quite sure what is causing the swelling--could be some sort of genetic defect. I will phone in on tuesday to report to him and we will decide if we should do more tests. No signs of self mutilation thus far.

I will post when we know more. Thanks for your support.

Starling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and Zayda <img border="0" alt="glider" title="" src="graemlins/littleglider.gif" />

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#963 - 11/09/02 01:28 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Let me ad this... and this is from expeience of having gliders for a very long time...sometimes a glider can become impacted high up in his/her intestine. When this happens...the glider will have periods of constipation and then diarreah....constipation and diarreah again. From rereading your post above...the behavior seems to fit....hissing, rolling and cleaning. The glider strains...because of the urge of needing to eleminate is there but the upper obstruction does not all come out. This can lead to a swollen cloacial aperture and then result in a prolasped bowel if not corrected. So...if your glider is still having problems with a swollen cloaca on her next vet visit ...may ask your vet if this could possibly be the problem.

In fact, if this were my glider...I would call him in the morning and ask. Perhaps a simple laxative such as 2 to 4 drops of mineral oil may solve the problem if she does have an impaction up high in her little gut.

<small>[ 11-09-2002, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#964 - 11/09/02 10:27 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
How is this baby this morning?
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

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#965 - 11/13/02 11:40 PM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello all,
My apologies for my late responses. Thank you, Judie for that bit of info. Monday morning Zayda showed signs of biting her tail so we went straight to the vet. They put an e-collar on her and gave me some medicine. I'm still waiting to hear results from several tests, including a fungal culture. The vet said that the tail biting could be caused by something like ringworm. This sparked a nerve...only a couple of days before I myself found a spot on my skin that looked like some sort of fungus. While Zayda was being taken care of at the vet's, I went to the doctor's and found out I had ringworm. Aye... It's a rather small spot on my stomach and should be easy to control. I called the vet immediately to let them know, and they included a small dose of anti-fungal cream. I don't know how I got it, and if Zayda has it there could be a number of ways we both acquired it. If she does not have it, I'm pretty sure I know that I contracted it from a friend's cat (friend was supposed to have taken said cat into the vet months ago). I am supposed to hear from the vet with news of results from tests within the next couple of days, however I will call and ask about the impaction issue. I did mention it before but didn't get much of a response. We shall see...

As for Zayda herself...
The swelling is going down significantly and her tail is looking much better. She's handling the e-collar very well (which is more of a very thickly wrapped ace bandage around her neck than a cone) although she has some trouble eating on her own. The thing weighs about half as much as she does. (She's only about 27 grams.) But, her appetite is very healthy; she loves the Leadbeater's Mix. She's having some problems eating fruit, I think mainly because she can't hold it herself to eat it. But, she tries to eat it when I help her and she does well. She loves applesauce.
Sunday night she had her first normal stool in a while. (Like a mouse dropping.) However, it seemed to be a little dark in coloration--not completely black, but dark brown. Since then she's had both normal and loose stools. The meds seem to be helping. She's not crabbed but a few times, and even then it doesn't seem to be out of pain. (While she was asleep, I handed her to my boyfriend while I went to make her some food. She woke up and was rather unhappy to find that she wasn't still with me.)
...Any accounts of a glider bonding too strongly to its human??
Anyway, she's a real trooper and despite the big collar she tries to move around--mostly she is successful and can climb around her cage pretty well. Her main problem comes when trying to eat out of the food dish. She kind of just falls in head-first due to the weight of the collar. She's become very acquainted with the spoon-in-face technique.

I will post again when I find out more info from the vet.

Thanks again,

Starling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and Zayda <img border="0" alt="[Glider Angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gliderangel.gif" />

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#966 - 11/15/02 11:08 PM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello again,
It's been a couple of days since my last post. Zayda and I just returned from the vet. Reasons for going: Last night/evening I noticed a slight increase in her trying to lick/bite her tail and some hissing and straining. Also, despite the decrease in cloacial swelling, her cloaca is still protruding somewhat. Her appetite and activity level are still up and she is not dehydrated, however, knowing what I've learned from this forum the "do-not-wait" technique was put into action and I made an appointment.
From this visit I have been able to come to the conclusion that both the vets I have seen are not experienced enough with gliders to know what is going on with Zayda. (I read the recommended vets site in hopes that a good glider vet would be near/around the Austin, TX area. I didn't see anything other than the one I'm currently going to--Westgate Pet and Bird Clinic--for which comments only included "familiarity with spading and neutering"--hmmm.)
I told the vet that from what I have read and researched, it sounds like she's got an impaction in the upper part of her intestinal tract (as you said, Judie) and he told me he'd probably be able to feel it...
He then proceeded to punch around on her tiny belly with is fingers while she was squirming and half a minute later said "Well, I don't feel anything..." He also said that in order to get x-rays they'd have to anethesize her. Risky... <img border="0" alt="[oh well]" title="" src="graemlins/ohwell.gif" />
So, I asked about a laxative: would it hurt her to have some laxitive if there wasn't an impaction? He said there shouldn't be and told me to give her .1 cc of Laxatone (a cat furball preventative laxative) twice a day. I asked about the mineral oil and he said there are some risks if they inhale the oil.

Soo....I need some help! <img border="0" alt="help" title="" src="graemlins/help.gif" /> Can I give a 27 gram female joey cat laxatives?? And .1 cc twice a day?? That's actually quite a bit...5 times as much as her current dosage for her anti-inflamatories.
Is there something else that might be better to unclog her if she is even clogged up to begin with? Perhaps something natural? I'm reluctant to give her anything until I get some feedback, but at the same time I don't want to wait too long.
Any help would be much appreciated!!

-Am going to start a new thread regarding vets in the Austin area...

Thanks again,

Starling <img border="0" alt="worried" title="" src="graemlins/worried2.gif" /> and Zayda <img border="0" alt="[Glider Angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gliderangel.gif" />

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#967 - 11/15/02 09:29 PM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3059
Loc: u.s.a.
i would first try some dannon vanilla yogurt and apple juice for a laxitive or canned pumpkin

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#968 - 11/16/02 03:41 AM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Starling,
the doseage of laxatone that the vet suggested is actually on 1/10th of a cc. Which really isn't much. About a smidgeon. They normally measure out the laxatone in inches, but you don't have enough to do that way! I would squeeze a little tiny bit out, Just enought to get a small dab on your finger. It's really not that much!
Chey

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#969 - 11/16/02 05:03 PM Re: Stressed glider? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello, hello,
Right after I posted, I called a different glider vet to ask her opinion. She explained to me that Laxatone is just flavored petroleum jelly. ...Not so worried now... <img border="0" alt="thumb" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />
I have been giving her the Laxatone since yesterday and I haven't seen an immediate improvement, but the vet said give it a couple days. I know .1cc is only a smidgeon, but it was still a lot more than her other medicine doses...and plus she's pretty small. Don't want to dehydrate her...
Thanks for your replies...will keep you updated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Starling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and Zayda <img border="0" alt="[Glider Angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gliderangel.gif" />

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