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#955148 - 06/07/10 12:24 AM True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo??????
NGS
Unregistered


I was recently reading some interesting info about someone may have a True Platinum Mosaic. Over in the Snow Leopard Platinum post

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...inum#Post952507


I do not want to high-jack this post about the plat colored Mosaics being called silver so Here is a link to where all this talk came up before.

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/798190/1


From what I am understanding on a couple of these post in this thread here, is that someone actually may have a True Plat Mosaic (meaning that Mo could create Platinum babies) and if that is indeed the case I feel this post needs to be discussed again. breeders will have to come up with something different to distinguish the differences between a True Platinum Mosaic and just a colored Platinum Mosaic (Sliver Plat). Which the easiest way for that would be call them Silver Mosaic all confusion solved. Just my opinion and thoughts.


Edited by NGS (06/07/10 12:37 AM)

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#955155 - 06/07/10 01:02 AM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: ]
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 1268
Loc: WI
Yes, you are correct in what you heard- kristy is the owner of Aphrodite a true platinum mo. Nina bred her and discussed her coloring with Priscilla and Sheila, and they agreed that she is in fact a true platinum mo.

I don't care much about the naming of the colors, but isn't there a distinction already? Platinum colored mosaic for the COLORED gliders, and True platinum mo for the true platinums?
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#955249 - 06/07/10 10:50 AM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
NGS
Unregistered


To my knowledge no one ever decided to call them True Mosaics, I think one person mentioned it and someone ( Babydevilsangel) responed with:

"We already do call them TRUE platinums. Doesn't fix the confusion. If we have to ask.. "A platinum mosaic? Or a true Platinum?" there is confusion".

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/798190/3

Read through some of the post on this page. People never were in an agreement of calling anything True Platinum's, its was just how people were trying to explain the differences in what we were all talking about with genetics at that time. It was even brought up by Misty in a post on this page about what if we end up with a Mosaic that actually has Platinum in its lineage, because at the time all this was being discussed No One knew of any "real or true" Mosaics that existed.

Here is what Misty posted:

I know that it seems like a no-brainer to some of you who've been into sugar gliders for a long time, but I'm hearing that it's really confusing to the newbies.

In the case of the person Elisabeth was talking about, she really believes her platinum mosaic can create a Haley baby. We know that it's possible for a colored glider to pop up unexpectedly from a pairing, not realizing that a glider 10 generations ago in the parents' lineage was carrying the gene. So if this lady thought "Wow, that's so cool that platinum just showed up in this line of mosaics" and had no idea that the word "platinum" might be used differently, then she wouldn't have known to ask the breeder otherwise & the breeder wouldn't have known to educate her. That poor lady is might be left feeling like she was falsely advertised to.

Just to play Devil's advocate a little... What would we do if someone started breeding true platinums with the mosaic lines, eventually leading to true platinum mosaics? Wouldn't having "true platinum mosaics" and "platinum mosaics" be even more confusing? It's not that far-fetched that this could start happening within the next few years. What will we do then?

I think for the sake of MY customers, if I end up with a platinum mosaic, I will be calling it a mosaic with silver or platinum coloring. I don't want to be responsible for unknowingly misinforming someone. White mosaics tend to have white faces, right? Does that mean we should call them white-faced mosaics? No. It would be confusing & misleading.

I'm really not trying to argue. I think this is a good debate that we have going. And I just want to make a case for the people who don't know any better & don't know there's a difference in the way platinum is being used. I don't think we should just say they should know better & leave it at that. Yes I agree people buying colored gliders should get educated about it, which is exactly why I started this topic in the first place...because I wanted to make sure I was understanding it all correctly. And since I started it, I've heard more & more people saying they're confused about it too. So like I said, I'm going to respond by changing how I word the mosaic descriptions for the sake of my customers & not wanting to confuse or mislead them. I can't make anyone else do it too, but I do hope you'll all consider it.

EDIT: Sheila, I haven't talked to Priscilla at all. I've been really busy this last week & 1/2.

Misty


Now we have someone in the glider community with an actual Platinum Mosaic Glider, which means there will be more to follow and now would be a good time to discuss all of this again and work on a change that would be a great understanding of the differences between genetic names and descriptive names. As I stated above breeders will have to come up with something different to distinguish the differences between a True Platinum Mosaic and just a colored Platinum Mosaic (Sliver Plat). Which the easiest way for that would be call them Silver Mosaic all confusion solved. Just my opinion and thoughts. Then you only have:

A) Platinum (meaning a glider is Platinum and can reproduce the Platinum Gene)

B) Sliver Mosaic (Meaning the glider is a Mosaic with silver coloring only, it cannot pass on a Platinum gene)

C) Platinum Mosaic (Meaning the glider is a Mosaic and can reproduce the Platinum Gene)





Edited by NGS (06/07/10 10:57 AM)

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#955428 - 06/07/10 04:35 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: ]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
i remember reading abt. platinum/mosaic and nobody but a few wanted to call the mosaics that were platinum colored-silver mosaics. personally i thought that would end the confusion because it is still very confusing because(some) breeders are still calling their mosaics- platinum mosaics when they dont have the plat. gene at all, they are just mosaics with silver color.

regards,
nancy in detroit


Edited by hwh4ev (06/07/10 04:41 PM)
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regards,
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#956244 - 06/09/10 01:57 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: hwh4ev]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
April, I'm on board with calling the "platinum-colored mosaics" "silver mosaics" instead. I agree it was never really agreed upon as to what to call them. If I remember right, Sheila & Priscilla talked about it & the next thing we knew, Priscilla had changed all of the "platinum mosaics" in her database to "platinum-colored mosaics" & we never really got to vote on that as a community. Really it's her database & she's a huge breeder, so she can do what she wants. If enough people want it changed though, maybe she'd consider our opinions. She's a very nice lady.

Misty

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#956255 - 06/09/10 02:20 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: IowaMisty]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
i dont mind platinum colored mosaics because that tells me that the mosaic does not have the platinum gene.
but just platinum mosaics? then you have to start with the questions.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#956292 - 06/09/10 03:11 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: hwh4ev]
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 3047
Loc: atkins arkansas
you cant just rename things! if you cant tell the difference in a TRUE and a colored, maybe just read a bit more into it. jmo, but you cant say, "i wanna call a bird 2WINGED RAT", because nobody is gonna follow your lead. just my opinion...
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#956306 - 06/09/10 03:33 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: eterrell84]
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 1027
Loc: Iowa
If you read Misty's orignal topic on the subject it is very confusing for new people and for people who aren't all that great at reading lineage. Also if you look through lineage, it doesn't alway say if the glider is a plat het to know if you have a TRUE plat or just a colored one.

Ryuu is my new plat colored white mo(I believe) and there is also the possibility that he MAY have plat het in his lineage way back on down the line. (I was told) I did look at his lineage more closely and there was a glider back in his lineage that DID produce plat gliders but ISN'T listed as a plat het.

If it is your database you actually CAN rename things. I believe priscilla has a new glider that she named snow leopard platinum.
_________________________
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Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.

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#956312 - 06/09/10 03:48 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: Lindsay]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
eterrell,
true platinum mosaic and a colored platinum mosaic isnt the problem. the problem is calling their mosiacs-platinum mosaics.
does it have the plat gene or not. alot of the platinum mosaics do not have the gene so they should be called either silver mosaics or platinum colored mosacis. that would solve the problem.
lindsay i agree with you also on the renaming of your joey/s. in fact if i ever get a mosiac and it looks platinum
i will be calling them silver mosiacs.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#956327 - 06/09/10 04:19 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: hwh4ev]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Yes, eterrell, we've been down this road before. We're not trying to rename them just for the sake of renaming them. In my original thread, we hashed out the differences between a platinum and a platinum mosaic. It was decided by Sheila & Priscilla at that time to change the platinums to "true platinum" and the platinum mosaics to "platinum-colored mosaics". That's not really what was agreed upon by the community, but they felt that was enough to distinguish the difference. The reason this is cropping up again is because there are now some gliders that are true platinum mosaics and some people are finding that confusing. I have to agree that if the platinum-colored mosaics were just called "silver mosaics", the confusion would be completely cleared.

"True platinum" is used in reference to an actual genetic color trait. The true platinums are a light grey color and their stripes are sort of a light brownish color. "Platinum-colored" is used to reference more of a variation in the mosaic coloring. It's just another way of saying they are a lighter (sort of silver) color. I think of it as a different shade of "normal". I think of "platinum-colored mosaic" as something similar to saying there are many different shades of blonde hair. From what I've seen so far (anyone feel free to correct me if this is wrong), it is not something that's passed down from a mosaic to a standard baby. It's really just a trait that some mosaics have....sort of like how some white-faced blondes are lighter-colored than others.

Misty

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#956329 - 06/09/10 04:22 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: IowaMisty]
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 1027
Loc: Iowa
That is true. Some mosaics are considered platinum colored because they have this light grey/silver dusting across their fur. They can still have a mosaic joey with no platinum coloring at all.

I also believe that some mosaics "powder out" as they get older and would then be considered platinum colored. I could be wrong, however.
_________________________
Lindsay

Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.

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#956334 - 06/09/10 04:27 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: hwh4ev]
wclanton423 Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 1268
Loc: Houston, TX
Here's my take...

A mosaic glider with platinum coloring should have "colored" in the name if you are going to reference platinum, as in "platinum colored mosaic."

A true "platinum" mosaic should either have the platinum line referenced in the name or say that it is a platinum het to tell the difference.

JMO
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~Southland Sugar Gliders~


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#956345 - 06/09/10 04:38 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: wclanton423]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Whitney, that's what they're doing now. It just still seems to be confusing people, so it popped back up as a question.

Misty

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#956384 - 06/09/10 06:15 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: IowaMisty]
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 3047
Loc: atkins arkansas
OHHHHH! i totally get it now! so ppl arent "renaming"... just trying to say you cant CALL it a plat if its not in its lineage, but if it came out as one by chance right?
so if its got plat in its LINEAGE, call it that, but if it just CAME OUT as one, it should be called plat colored? am i right? sheesh! this IS confusing! rofl!
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#956400 - 06/09/10 06:42 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: eterrell84]
NGS
Unregistered


Yeah, I think you are getting it now. Thats why in my post I broke it down to these:

A) Platinum (meaning a glider is Platinum and can reproduce the Platinum Gene)

B) Sliver Mosaic (Meaning the glider is a Mosaic with silver coloring only, it cannot pass on a Platinum gene)

C) Platinum Mosaic (Meaning the glider is a Mosaic and can reproduce the Platinum Gene)



Because there are NOW REAL Platinum Mosaic gliders meaning they actually carry the Platinum gene. So if you brake it down into A) B) and C) it should stop all the confusion and everyone should know what they are purchasing without having to ask is my Plat Mosaic a real Platinum Mosaic? (If the Mosaic has no Platinum genes that it can reproduce then it should not be called a Platinum Mosaic, it should be called a Silver Mosaic)

Its not about renaming its about adding Silver Mosaic to the list because real Platinum Mosaic gliders do exists now. So now we do need both used Sliver Mosaic and Platinum Mosaic.



Edited by NGS (06/09/10 10:31 PM)

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#956418 - 06/09/10 07:27 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: ]
NGS
Unregistered


I just sent an email to Priscilla Price asking for her help and if she would join in and read this post. Hopefully we will hear from her too at some point. smile

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#956434 - 06/09/10 08:10 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: ]
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 3047
Loc: atkins arkansas
wow, thats crazy! glad i dont have to worry about all that lol!
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#956490 - 06/09/10 09:33 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: eterrell84]
Sabarika Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1712
Loc: nKY
I feel like a bit of a minority but I really do like the idea of calling a platinum COLORED mosaic just a "silver" mosaic. sounds prettier, completely eliminates the confusion of using the word "platinum" which obviously has at least 2 different connotations/uses that are confusing people. Kind of how I see "powdered out" mosaics as just that.. it's a "powdered mosaic" or it simply "powdered out with age"--it didn't become a new color, it simply changed with age. I think of it like dog coats.. husky and malamute puppies often look SO MUCH DIFFERENT as puppies than as adults, but you don't say your red & white masked husky puppy is a "red and white bald-faced" husky when it grows up and the mask markings change or disappear.
(page showing mal coats that have puppy - to -adult pics and they can be SO different! http://nicholescritters.homestead.com/malcolorgeneticsDomino.html )
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#956496 - 06/09/10 09:43 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: Sabarika]
Obsolescenttears Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 272
Loc: Minnesota
Sabarika - thinking your actually a Majority overall lol
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#956507 - 06/09/10 10:09 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: Obsolescenttears]
DirtyPaws Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1823
Loc: Wichita Falls, Texas
I'd vote for silver or powdered mosiacs rather than plat colored or true plat.

Just leaves less room for misinturpretation in my opinion.

But what do I know right?! crazy
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#956531 - 06/09/10 11:08 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: DirtyPaws]
Sabarika Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1712
Loc: nKY
:3 Honestly I am impressed with the glider community as a whole for not creating a slew of confusing Mosaic names.. sure, we have Ringtail or WF or White that we might add, but it's still all MOSAIC. Platinum should be kept as a name for the genetic trait that displays as a color, not simply a name for a lightened glider of similar coloration without the gene. At the end of the day no matter what "variation" I still see Mosaics as Mosaics, no matter what descriptor you add to the front of it. Again with dog reference, you can see many shades and varieties of brindle coat color in dogs but I don't see them globally called "Orange tiger brindle", "red brindle", "champagne thin-striped brindle" or anything..it's simple "brindle" no matter what the variation. Again I like the idea of naming a platinum COLORED mosaic simply "Silver", or any powdered out mo just that..powdered out or silver/silvered. That does raise the issue of "well it's the exact color as a Platinum glider, but you call it something else" but at the end of the day as far as BREEDING and lineage/genetics go, it seems simpler to not use the term "Platinum colored/Platinum" as a descriptor for mosaic unless that mosaic carries the platinum gene. Only true Platinums should hold the name, not similarly colored but non-carrying gliders.
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#956542 - 06/09/10 11:59 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: Sabarika]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
we have Ringtail or WF or White that we might add, but it's still all MOSAIC.


I want to point out that a glider can be a mosaic AND a white face and it be seperate from a white faced mosaic.

I say this because I have a glider who is both a white face glider and a mosaic. His mother is a wfb and his father is a non white face mosaic. He, paired with twin lion sisters, produced a wf lion and a wf mosaic.

If the white face was part of the mosaic trait then either both joeys would be mosaic (or lion or grey) or there couldn't have been a wf lion born. Therefore, he is both a white face and a mosaic. They are seperate traits.

Just as you can have a white face leu, which would then be proven when paired to a normal grey and they produce a white faced joey.
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#956866 - 06/10/10 07:44 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: IowaMisty]
NGS
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: IowaMisty
April, I'm on board with calling the "platinum-colored mosaics" "silver mosaics" instead. I agree it was never really agreed upon as to what to call them. If I remember right, Sheila & Priscilla talked about it & the next thing we knew, Priscilla had changed all of the "platinum mosaics" in her database to "platinum-colored mosaics" & we never really got to vote on that as a community. Really it's her database & she's a huge breeder, so she can do what she wants. If enough people want it changed though, maybe she'd consider our opinions. She's a very nice lady.

Misty



Well from most of what I have read with the old threads and now new ones sounds like most people in the community are agreeing that this needs to be discussed, changed and it sounds like the Votes are coming in to add Silver Mosaic. With a tiny handful that would rather call it something else. I sent Prsiclla an email hoping she will come look and see what everyone is expressing they would like as a Community.

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#957270 - 06/11/10 05:29 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: eterrell84]
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1228
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: eterrell84
OHHHHH! i totally get it now! so ppl arent "renaming"... just trying to say you cant CALL it a plat if its not in its lineage, but if it came out as one by chance right?
so if its got plat in its LINEAGE, call it that, but if it just CAME OUT as one, it should be called plat colored? am i right? sheesh! this IS confusing! rofl!


We're saying that the true platinum gene is different from what people are calling "platinum-colored" in relation to mosaics.

Misty

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#957517 - 06/12/10 09:15 AM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: ]
NGS
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: NGS

A) Platinum (meaning a glider is Platinum and can reproduce the Platinum Gene)

B) Sliver Mosaic (Meaning the glider is a Mosaic with silver coloring only, it cannot pass on a Platinum gene)

C) Platinum Mosaic (Meaning the glider is a Mosaic and can reproduce the Platinum Gene)


Because there are NOW REAL Platinum Mosaic gliders meaning they actually carry the Platinum gene. So if you brake it down into A) B) and C) it should stop all the confusion and everyone should know what they are purchasing without having to ask is my Plat Mosaic a real Platinum Mosaic? (If the Mosaic has no Platinum genes that it can reproduce then it should not be called a Platinum Mosaic, it should be called a Silver Mosaic)

Its not about renaming its about adding Silver Mosaic to the list because real Platinum Mosaic gliders do exists now. So now we do need both used Sliver Mosaic and Platinum Mosaic.


This would also mean that all gliders that are currently being called Platinum Mosaic that do not have any Platinum genes (that are just Sliver Mosaic) would have to be changed. There would be a little bit of time that would have to go into this but to give up some time to stop all the confusion of the glider community and Help the community would be well worth it.

I have not got a reply back from Priscilla Price yet, not sure if shes just busy or because she does not know me. dunno Maybe someone else could send an email too linking her to this thread I would love for her to be part of it and see what the community is asking for.


Edited by NGS (06/12/10 09:25 AM)

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#958572 - 06/14/10 12:02 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: Dancing]
Sabarika Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1712
Loc: nKY
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
we have Ringtail or WF or White that we might add, but it's still all MOSAIC.


I want to point out that a glider can be a mosaic AND a white face and it be seperate from a white faced mosaic.

I say this because I have a glider who is both a white face glider and a mosaic. His mother is a wfb and his father is a non white face mosaic. He, paired with twin lion sisters, produced a wf lion and a wf mosaic.

If the white face was part of the mosaic trait then either both joeys would be mosaic (or lion or grey) or there couldn't have been a wf lion born. Therefore, he is both a white face and a mosaic. They are seperate traits.

Just as you can have a white face leu, which would then be proven when paired to a normal grey and they produce a white faced joey.

You are right, I didn't consider the genetics behind WF! My mistake. smile Thanks for the correction!
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#969495 - 07/04/10 04:56 PM Re: True Platinum Mo and Platinum Colored Mo?????? [Re: Sabarika]
NGS
Unregistered


Hey everyone I got a reply from Prsicilla, sorry it has taken so long to get back to this. Here is what she sent and with her permission to post it:

Hi April,

Thank you for writing.

I'm sorry there seems to be so much confusion about glider color. The color
names are descriptions of the colors we see in our gliders, nothing more.
If we say we have a white glider it could be mosaic, leucistic, or albino,
genetically. But saying we have a white glider just tells people what color
we see.
Platinum is a color and many of my mosaics look exactly like platinum in
color, they do not look silver. So a silver mosaic would be a different
color, it would not be what we are currently referring to as a platinum
colored mosaic.

If we breed a leucistic to a mosaic and the baby turns out completely white
we have a leucistic possible mosaic under the leucistic.
If we breed a Silverbell/Haley platinum to a mosaic and the baby turns out
to be a platinum color, we don't know what we have. I would think we should
say platinum colored mosaic possible Silverbell/Haley platinum. Breeding a
Silverbell/Haley platinum glider to a mosaic complicates the way the
offspring will be described. If I were looking to get into breeding
Silverbell/Haley platinums I wouldn't want the color complicated with the
mosaic gene. That is my opinion but I respect others that wish to try
different genetic combinations. I do some of my own genetic combinations.
I have bred leucistic with albino and gotten 100% double hets for
albino/leucistic. I bred those babies back to an albino named Chance and am
now producing a new line of platinums I call Chance Platinums. This is a
platinum color that is being consistently produced from a specific genetic
combination. I am still working with the gene and our second generation now
have a baby in pouch. It will be exciting to see this baby!

My suggestion is:
Platinum - a genetically produced platinum glider from an establish platinum
line that is not mosaic.
Platinum colored mosaic - a mosaic glider that in appearance is a platinum
color.
Platinum colored mosaic, also possible possible Silverbell/Haley platinum
het- possibly a platinum and a mosaic.
Platinum, also possible platinum colored mosaic under platinum - possibly a
platinum and a mosaic.

In the pedigree program you have the option to describe not only the color
but the genetics of your glider. Use this to avoid confusion and to
describe new combinations of genetics you have pairs. Color should be only
a description of the color you see.

I personally do not use the term "true platinum".

Hope this will help in understanding color verses genetics.

You are free to post this if you think it will help.

Sincerely,

Priscilla


Edited by NGS (07/04/10 04:56 PM)

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