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#958113 - 06/13/10 02:12 PM PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences.
Akkadian13
Unregistered


I recently sent an email to (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets regarding their honesty and integrity regarding their 'mill breeding'. Why? Because I'm annoying and very curious smile The lady that sent this email to me was named Summer
Here was their response;



Hello,
To put it simply, "yes" we are very aware of the handful of unlicensed internet critics - and "no" none of what they say is true.
For example, one "tiny" little detail that these zealots don't like to admit is that even the EXISTENCE of a sugar glider "mill" by a licensed breeder is simply - and totally - IMPOSSIBLE. Since this is a USDA regulated animal, all licensed breeders - including ourselves - are subject to continual, VERY strict scrutiny of every aspect of our operations - both by Federal inspectors and supervising veterinarians - who conduct regular - and surprise inspections all the time. If there are sugar glider "mills" out there, they certainly are not run by anyone who is a Federal licensee such as we are. It would simply be impossible - but these "unlicensed" internet whackos have certainly never been constrained by the truth - or facts - before; and unfortunately there is no "truth test" out on the internet. :-)
By the way, in case you doubt how rigorous it is to both get - and keep - a Federal USDA license - you might be interested to know that less than 5% of all pet shops in the US hold one - and the reason is simply because they do not want to go through all the added costs - and inspections - of complying with the Federal govt's extensive monitoring and regulation.
Personally, we feel that it is FANTASTIC that our animals are USDA regulated, specifically because it eliminates the potential for abusive breeding and "mills" which are so common to cats, dogs, and many other house pets. Again, anyone who is professionally involved in the animal business clearly understands how absurd it is to even THINK that a USDA regulated animal could be "mill bred" - but these internet sites prey on the emotions of less-informed, well-meaning people like yourself who simply would have no way of knowing any better.
Another thing we find rather humorous is that a handful of these whackos even go so far as to lie and claim they were customers of ours - and their animals were sick or died, etc.... Again, this is easily debunked by anyone who actually understands this industry, because every person who buys an animal from us is required by Federal law to have a unique serial number identifying them and their animals. This is not something which is up for debate - it's the law - and every time we've challenged one of these nuts to produce their serial - they simply respond by calling us names and never producing one...

I completely understand that you think these people are "credible", but to be absolutely clear, we are Federally-Licensed - and every single thing we say - and everything we print - has been approved by licensed Doctors of Veterinary Medicine who are on the cutting edge of scientific research regarding these animals. In other words, no matter what these unregulated internet groups "spread" - if EVERY word we publish was not 100% true, we could not be in business - period. That being said, I will not waste either your time - or mine - saying any more on this subject or justifying any of our actions/practices to a band of small internet breeders who operate these chatrooms and illegally breed/traffic in these animals.




I know this may seem as if I am trying to start an argument. I am not. I am new to Sugar Gliders, and want to make sure that when I eventually get two of them that they are healthy and happy smile
If I start a flame war, I am very sorry. I just want information so I can have myself prepared to handle Gliders.


P.S.
I'm very nervous while posting this, for fear of having done something wrong, but I figure if I am to raise two Gliders, I need to know all of the FACTUAL information I can.


Edited by Akkadian13 (06/13/10 02:45 PM)

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#958120 - 06/13/10 02:21 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
victoriarose1982 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 2135
Loc: Seattle, Washginton, USA
I am curious can someone who is going to the SGGA please print this and give it to Virgil and ask what he means by nut jobs? Ask if he is the one who sent it and why he would say such mean things.

You have done nothing wrong here. Thank you Matthew for posting this. Its funny how you post this right before the owner of (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is going to a glider convention in abuot 6-8 weeks from now and people from the glider world to get to meet him. Do you know who sent this to you? Did they give you a name?
_________________________
Rachel
Home to now 13 lovely greys!2 mos, and 1 plat mo.:grey: Link, Zelda, Coffee, Crash, Sif, Lily, Thor, Loki, Damiana, Sammy, and Pollux :plat:
and a loving husband

Glide free Hope, Cayden, and Zoey

victoriarose1982@yahoo.com
http://sugarcombs.webs.com/
http://www.sugargliderads.com/

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#958121 - 06/13/10 02:23 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Just note the name calling. Seems like he is defensive right off the bat.

Yes you can have a mill and still be USDA licensed. They have lax laws and many times their hands are tied when dealing with these situations.

There are warehouses of gliders in TX is small cages. That qualifies as a mill to me. Since there is no minimum cage size from the USDA they don't see it as a problem.
_________________________
cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx

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#958122 - 06/13/10 02:24 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: victoriarose1982]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


Yes ma'am.
Her name was Summer. She was very nice to me :]
So was Joann, the first person I asked about Gliders.

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#958123 - 06/13/10 02:27 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
Sashimi
Unregistered


You haven't done anything wrong, everyone here cares for the well-being of all sugar gliders and tries to steer people in the right direction.

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets tends to steer people away from the 'internet whackos' because they lose sales that way. And losing sales means less money for their pockets. I think the only thing they care about in the name (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is the 'perfect pocket' because their pockets are huge from hocking these poor, defenseless creatures to impulse buyers.

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#958124 - 06/13/10 02:29 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


I'm glad I'm learning all of this. The mods also don't seem to mind my relentless posting smile lol.

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#958189 - 06/13/10 04:18 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2833
Loc: roseville, mi
when you decide to get your gliders i hope you get it from a reliable breeder with a lineage. pellets and their vitamins (sugar [censored]) are not appropiate for gliders as they are nectar, bug, protein eaters and do need a variety with the proper calcium to phosp. levels.
they claim they neuter males (and this is from the owner, virgil, himself) at 8 wks. oop. well that is far to young and their little testes. aren't dropped at that age and that is just one of many practices they claim.
their is alot of experience here with alot of vets. that have guided alot of breeders on here. experience speaks volumes, they teach on here from experience and hard lessons learned along the way. we have suggie owners/breeders that have been around for over 20 or more years.

we have alot of good breeders here on glider central that have lineages and hold and love their joeys so they will make you or their new daddy/momma their slave.
i could go on and on but i think you get the point.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. wackos from a glider forum is incorrect. we are loving and think of the gliders welfare and that is what it is all about.


Edited by hwh4ev (06/13/10 04:22 PM)
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#958192 - 06/13/10 04:26 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: hwh4ev]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


I've found that the information on GliderCentral makes more sense.

Let's think about this.
A glider is from the rainforest. They live in tree hollows.
They are NOT going to go off and eat a manufactured pellet or vitamin. They want fruit, veggies, nectar/sap/honey. They want food found in their NATURAL environment. Why would vitamins or pellets be a good substitute for these EASY TO BUY natural fruits and veggies? I totally understand using calcium vitamins and other such vitamins, but a Glider should NOT live off of vitamins as their primary food source.

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#958195 - 06/13/10 04:33 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 2294
Loc: NY
Don't be surprised if you get an e-mail from them stating that you're not allowed to post what they send you. I believe a disclaimer at the bottom of their emails states not to share anything told you -- at least, it did in the e-mails I received before they deleted me from their mailing lists.
_________________________
~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin

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#958196 - 06/13/10 04:35 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: WintersSong]
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 2294
Loc: NY
Now, on being USDA licensed. Sugar glider owners do not need to have a USDA license, however many breeders on glider central ARE USDA licensed. So the argument of "they're not licensed!" as the e-mail seems to be making is a bit irrelevant.


Edited by WintersSong (06/13/10 04:35 PM)
_________________________
~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin

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#958199 - 06/13/10 04:38 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: WintersSong]
Sashimi
Unregistered


I actually e-mailed them with a question or two and they never bothered to answer me lol

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#958201 - 06/13/10 04:39 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 2294
Loc: NY
Mandy, I sent them an e-mail not long ago asking questions.. Received the reply back that they would no longer being responding to my e-mails because I have posted about them on the forums.
_________________________
~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin

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#958203 - 06/13/10 04:42 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: WintersSong]
Sashimi
Unregistered


Wow, how awful. I e-mailed them from an old e-mail address I hardly use. It was a valid question pertaining to one of their "facts" on the website with absolutely no response.

I do not respect anyone who can't answer a simple question but will berate and look down upon people they do not know.

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#958206 - 06/13/10 04:48 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experience [Re: hwh4ev]
HeatherB
Unregistered


Guess I am a wacko. This is news to me. Lol! In my opinion, I think that is highly unprofessional. You only lower yourself and your intelligence in others eyes by using name calling as a form to dispute with opinions. Also it has been my experience that some of the information (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets uses to make a sale is highly incorrect. Forget mill breeders, they clearly try to convince people to impulse buy which they cannot deny. Why else would they set up booths at county fairs which is a bustling environment that can stress many animals. If they were truly concerned about the well being of their animals would they bring them into such environments? Would they tell potential owners that they will get along with other pets? Sure they may get along with other pets, but the other pets may not get along with them. In fact cats and dogs are predator animals and they will chase anything that moves regardless of how it smells i.e stuffed toy, or Grey Hounds chasing mechanical rabbit at a racetrack. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets cannot dispute that. Would they tell potential owners they are less expensive then other pets because they do not need the vet care for vaccinations? I have a dog with a endless list of medical problems and all those problems and expenses are far from vaccinations. Any animal like any living breathing organism can be faced with medical problems. They cannot dispute that. I chose not to purchase from them NOT because of mill breeding information I heard, but because the information they spewed, and how they displayed their animals clearly indicated that they were not interested in the well being of their animals but in the money entering their pockets. agree

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#958207 - 06/13/10 04:52 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
buttercup
Unregistered


Well I for one am proud to be in the midst of such great "wackos" and "zealots"!!

Wait a minute....we breed and traffic gliders illegally? How? And where? Gee if that were true, would airlines NOT allow all these "illegal" breeders and traffickers to ship gliders??

I too hope this letter is printed and shown to Virgil at the SGGA...I would loooooove to hear his argument for that closed minded and inaccurate letter.

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#958218 - 06/13/10 05:25 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I have a question! or 2...

that letter states that to be USDA licensed you need to go through rigorous inspections...

need honesty here, for those of you who ARE licensed, how often are you actually inspected?

isnt the license needed only if you have over a certin number of breeding females?

if (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is not a breeder, but only a broker, why do they need the license anyway?

lots of holes in that email in my opinion.

also, I asked about their so called glider diet in another thread,PLEASE I would like to here Virgil's response to it as well
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/..._and#Post957315
_________________________
:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!

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#958268 - 06/13/10 07:02 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: WintersSong]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: WintersSong
Don't be surprised if you get an e-mail from them stating that you're not allowed to post what they send you. I believe a disclaimer at the bottom of their emails states not to share anything told you -- at least, it did in the e-mails I received before they deleted me from their mailing lists.



It won't bother me haha. I like the people here much more. smile
I needed clarification, I got it, and now I know that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is a bad place. So I don't care if they do that lol.

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#958276 - 06/13/10 07:51 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
buttercup
Unregistered


Matthew, I'd save the email then, see if you can forward it to someone in the MBP or another glider group so they can show it to Virgil at the SGGA.

And I thought the same thing Jill...if they are a "broker", why do they need the license? Is there a different form of the license to sell a large quantity of gliders?

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#958278 - 06/13/10 07:55 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 2294
Loc: NY
My understanding is that there's a Class A license and a Class B license. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets has a Class B license, which is different than a breeding license. At least -- that's what I was told before. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
_________________________
~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin

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#958280 - 06/13/10 08:04 PM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: WintersSong]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


If anyone would like me to forward the email to them(Which will include my original question), please reply with your email address, and the address of anyone you believe would be interested in seeing it. smile I guess I did something helpful. Haha.

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#958434 - 06/14/10 06:48 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Class A is for breeding animals, class B is only selling. It makes sense for Pocket Pets to deny their being a mill because no, they do not breed their own animals, they merely ship them around the country at far too young an age and pack 50+ gliders in a cage, and tell everyone what an easy pet they are. The allegations of inbred animals are then off their shoulders because, yanno, we didn't breed them ma'am, you'd have to take that up with the 10% of hobby breeders out there.

It's just one more sleazy sales tactic. Matthew, no one on here is going to get mad at you for posting or asking questions. Nobody should anyway. GC strives to be drama-free after all!

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#958476 - 06/14/10 09:41 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
Dragonrain Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 11/22/09
Posts: 233
Loc: NY
A little bit off topic - but aren't puppy mills sometimes licensed by the USDA? USDA standards don't seem all that great to me. I defiantly wouldn't ever come to the conclusion that just because a breeder/dealer is USDA licensed, that it means they are doing whats best for the animals or treating them with the standards I would like to see them treated with.

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#958481 - 06/14/10 09:55 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: Dragonrain]
victoriarose1982 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 2135
Loc: Seattle, Washginton, USA
Ok so if they are refering to the class B lisence then way are they compareing themselfs to people with a class A lisence (breeders)? Also why are they talking about USDA doing surprise inspections? SOmething with this letter does not feel right.
_________________________
Rachel
Home to now 13 lovely greys!2 mos, and 1 plat mo.:grey: Link, Zelda, Coffee, Crash, Sif, Lily, Thor, Loki, Damiana, Sammy, and Pollux :plat:
and a loving husband

Glide free Hope, Cayden, and Zoey

victoriarose1982@yahoo.com
http://sugarcombs.webs.com/
http://www.sugargliderads.com/

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#958484 - 06/14/10 10:07 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: victoriarose1982]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


I just asked Summer for permission to forward it, and she beat around the bush by saying that I should read their website for 'reliable' information

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#958507 - 06/14/10 10:34 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
buttercup
Unregistered


Of course she's gonna beat around the bush...but I dont think there's anything wrong if you forwarded your email to someone else.

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#958526 - 06/14/10 10:59 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


There is a disclaimer at the bottom saying it is prohibited for me to forward it

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#958529 - 06/14/10 11:02 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
victoriarose1982 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 2135
Loc: Seattle, Washginton, USA
once its been forwarded to you.Its yours to do with what youd like. You are not talking to a lawyer or a doctor. There is no way that can get you into trouble.
_________________________
Rachel
Home to now 13 lovely greys!2 mos, and 1 plat mo.:grey: Link, Zelda, Coffee, Crash, Sif, Lily, Thor, Loki, Damiana, Sammy, and Pollux :plat:
and a loving husband

Glide free Hope, Cayden, and Zoey

victoriarose1982@yahoo.com
http://sugarcombs.webs.com/
http://www.sugargliderads.com/

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#958547 - 06/14/10 11:23 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: victoriarose1982]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


That's what I thought.

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#958565 - 06/14/10 11:50 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: ]
Happy Birthday melek007 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 3874
Loc: Eastern NC
From my understanding, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets would have a brokers license, not a breeder's license (which more than a few members here, who are breeders, have). Like someone said, it's honestly not comparable since the USDA makes a distinction between them.
Well... as for pet stores, if they don't deal with animals, they don't need a USDA license. For those that do have animals, it depends on the animals they have (not that I am endorsing pet stores that sell animals).

Anyway... I am glad to be an internet forum wacko. Thanks GC!! smile
_________________________
~ I miss my Alev, Nese & Levent ~

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#958567 - 06/14/10 11:54 AM Re: PPP(Perfect Pocket Pets) advice and experiences. [Re: melek007]
Akkadian13
Unregistered


I'm very glad you are all 'whackos' and 'nutjobs'. smile haha. I suppose being a whacko and a nut means you know how to treat animals.

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