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#958991 - 06/15/10 07:36 AM How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu?
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Coppied from SGN because I know there is interest here and already talk about this subject. First of all, my ansers is... I am not sure. I am not telling anyone a sure fire way to tell, I don't think there is one (except by breeding). But I think it is an issue worth talking about.

I happen to know a few people who have bought 'white mos' in the past, and I am sure some will in the future, that in my opinion... are lues. These joeys have never proven to make mosaic babies, so... I am assume they are leus.

Leus vs white mosaics. Both are fantastic. But when we record lineage and charge people, the lines are getting blurred right now.

So how can we tell?

Short of making sure no mosaic/leu het is never paired with a leu or leu het, this is going to continue to occur. Esp. since so many of us put our mos in with leu hets years ago, what did we know? It will continue on. So are there clues we can look for?

I have had 11 white mos born here, and one more coming oop. 9 out of those 11 come from the same family line and you can always see at least a few dark hairs, and all get spots on their ears. Gannon barely has any yet Jet had very dark ears. Their ears are all different.


But leus can have a range of darkness too, some pure white with darkness on the edges, some deeper in, and some appear a bit splotchy. Cow ears? No, I have never seen a leu with cow spotted ears.

The other 2 white mos came from a 100% leu het/RT mo/with plat. lines (I think 50%) paired with a 100% leu het. They had 2 joeys Harley and Burl. Both born looking like leus with not one single dark hair, none, nada. But both grew very spotted ears over the next 12 weeks which continued to darken over about a year. Harley will never breed, but of the two, her ears look just like a mo (cow type), Burls didn't and I was pretty sure he was a leu. Burl was paired with a wfb 50% leu het and on the first try, they make a very clear mosaic, proving him to be a mosaic. The next time they made a leu? with funky ears. She also will not breed so there is no telling.

From my Fu family tree those 9 white mos all have one thing in common besides a few dark hairs. They all have 2 different colored whiskers, both white and black. Gannon only has one, his newest joey who really appears white (she does have a small amount of dark hairs on her back/hips and the shading on her ears where spots will come) but she has at least 2 black whiskers, one of the 9 had like 4 black whiskers/mixed with white.

I haven't seen any other mosaic breeders talk about whiskers.

Any of you with white mos or possible white mos notice this? They are easily missed unless you take a picture/looking at the face of the glider.

Do any leus have black whiskers? I wouldn't think so but I honestly do not know.

I can't remember if Harley or Burl had black whiskers, maybe I missed it, maybe they don't have any. I'll have to go back and look from my home computer.

Here is Bellamy. Can you see the whiskers ?









Just wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on this.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#958992 - 06/15/10 07:38 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: queenduck]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Oppps, pictures are small, they are bigger on SGN if you can't see them here.

If you look above her left eye and above the left side of her nose you can see them.
_________________________
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We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#959019 - 06/15/10 08:58 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: queenduck]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
Yes those little black whiskers are clearly visible, and apparently only on the one side of her face.

Don't breed white mo but that is certainly a very unique monkey you have there.
I will inspect (leu)Merribelle's whiskers when I get home and let ya know but I believe all hers are white.
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#959029 - 06/15/10 09:16 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: Trigger]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Yep, all of that Fu line has had them. I don't think they are unique to my white mos, but... if someone has a joey in quesion that looks like it 'could' be a leu or a white mo, and they see dark whiskers, that could point to them being a white mo.

Without the dark whiskers the only way to prove it one way or another is to breed them. But with them you would know.

Unless some leus have dark whiskers. I really don't know.

With Harley and Burl, I wasn't thinking to look. And I already said I thought Burl most like was a lue. I was wrong. I am sure there are other lines with white mos that have dark whiskers, maybe we/me have just not thought to look.

Jen, I flushed my phone down a toilet yesterday (I didn't actually flush but it had the same result) So after a night of drying out in a rice bag, my phone looks like it works but the touch screen doesn't touch. It's dead. I can see your calling I just can't answer. Grrr.
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Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#959040 - 06/15/10 09:38 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: queenduck]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
Was just calling to tell ya that I was gonna get a pic of Apache in the grass but he refused to get off me. LOL

Back on track, my mo Santee does showt this black whisker trait. She has a solid white face all but 2 little black whiskers on the left side of her nose. I will closely check my leu's when home and reply with my findings for you tommorow.
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Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
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#959082 - 06/15/10 10:43 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: Trigger]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
Wow- once you look for them they pop right out. My non white mo's Checkers, August & Rush have black whiskers scattered throughout. My leu Coda, not a black whisker at all & my whatchamacallit Maia- no black whiskers either.

For those that don't know, we haven't been sure what Maia's coloring is. Her dad's a white mo but her parents have leu het %'s in them.
_________________________
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~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


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#959086 - 06/15/10 10:50 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: queenduck]
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 3224
Loc: North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: queenduck
Oppps, pictures are small, they are bigger on SGN if you can't see them here.

If you look above her left eye and above the left side of her nose you can see them.


If you right click on the picture and open in a new tab, it will be larger & the whiskers are clearly seen.
_________________________
Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique

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#959108 - 06/15/10 11:33 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: jacknsally]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Wow- once you look for them they pop right out. My non white mo's Checkers, August & Rush have black whiskers scattered throughout. My leu Coda, not a black whisker at all & my whatchamacallit Maia- no black whiskers either.

For those that don't know, we haven't been sure what Maia's coloring is. Her dad's a white mo but her parents have leu het %'s in them.


Yep funny, I never thought to look at my kiddos whiskers. I'd have never noticed Santee's 2 black ones.
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kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
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#959151 - 06/15/10 12:47 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: Trigger]
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 1855
Loc: Orlando, FL
pretty cool
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#959216 - 06/15/10 03:07 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: Tish84]
DirtyPaws Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1823
Loc: Wichita Falls, Texas
This I had noticed before on my 2 light colored mo's. Twinkie who is a very pretty light silver color, white face with no eye 'makeup' and just a small silver spot on his head, has only 2 dark wiskers. One on one side of his nose and one on his brow. His daddy Blitzen who is just a shade darker than him, not a white face and has silver eye rings and longer blaze on his head, has all white nose wiskers, all grey (not black) cheek wiskers and a few grey brow wiskers.

Peggy, are Dolly's wiskers all white? Oh wait! No! Don't look!

roflmao

Alicia, before you noticed wiskers, were you just looking for any grey hairs to determine your white mo's? Well, besides lineage and breeding them to see what they produce.
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~~~ Crystal ~~~

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#959224 - 06/15/10 03:25 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: jacknsally]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
nancy,
if you dont mind me asking, what percent leu het do maia's parents have?

thanks,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#959261 - 06/15/10 04:51 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: hwh4ev]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Quote:
Alicia, before you noticed wiskers, were you just looking for any grey hairs to determine your white mo's? Well, besides lineage and breeding them to see what they produce.


Yes, grey hairs. But in my case all but 2 (Harley and Burl) have a few grey hairs and after they fluff up they are easy to see.

Nancy's glider's dad is a 66% leu het and I 'think' mom is a 50%.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#959263 - 06/15/10 04:59 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: queenduck]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Peggy, are Dolly's wiskers all white? Oh wait! No! Don't look!


roflmao

I looked first thing this morning when Alicia and I were talking about it. Both Dolly and her mom Pandora have all white whiskers, but ALL my Mosaics have some black whiskers.
_________________________
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Critter Love
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#959313 - 06/15/10 07:40 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: queenduck]
oakley Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 2305
Loc: Florida, USA
Hmmm I never noticed the whiskers.. just looked at photos of my MO's and sure enough... dark whiskers!
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#959435 - 06/16/10 02:35 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: oakley]
tlc_in_chitown Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 243
Loc: Illinois
Ok...now you got me looking at my gliders and pics for this post, lol. I have had two white mosaics here and both have powdered out to look very much like leus. The spotted ears are very noticeable and both have two or three whiskers that are black.

Now looking at my leus....both of my adults have they grey edges on their ears. My male has a lt grey face whisker above his eye, but not black. All whiskers on sides of mouth are white. My female leu also has grey edges on her ears and lt grey face whiskers (two) again near her eyes, but def not black. All of the whiskers by her mouth are white.

All of my other mosaics also have mixed black and white whiskers. My new leu joey comes from a leu father and a 100% leu het mosaic mother. I am positive this female joey will "stay" a lue, lol. Pink ears~no spotting, white fur, and all white whiskers.

I recently spent some time with a friends mo~cistic gliders and was asked to give my opinion on them. I do see some light spotting on the males ears starting to develop...hopefully time will help his ears/spots color up more. We always look for the random grey or black hairs, but never thought to check his whiskers. Good observation!

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#959519 - 06/16/10 07:59 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: tlc_in_chitown]
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 3970
Loc: Spring, Texas
OK my leu has NO black whiskers at all.
_________________________
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kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
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#959522 - 06/16/10 08:01 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: Trigger]
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 1027
Loc: Iowa
I just checked Ryuu last night and he has black whiskers by his eyes and one half black half white whisker by his nose. He is a platty colored white mo.
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Lindsay

Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.

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#959553 - 06/16/10 09:03 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: tlc_in_chitown]
DirtyPaws Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1823
Loc: Wichita Falls, Texas
Tami. Your 2 adult leus that have light grey brow? whiskers ~ do either of them have a mo parent?

And sheesh, just when we thought it was hard to tell!

Looks like I'll be keeping and breeding all the leus born at my house...........

We have a bit of a whisker fetish at our house ~ mainly because of my cat (stupid story.) But I LOVE my WFB's dark black whiskers on her blonde face heart And I love Blitzy's long, long, long multicolored whiskers. And we've always teased Twinkie because he has those random light grey whiskers. Guess we're just weird whisker folks. dunno

off_topic Um Tami.

Skipping SGGA?!

Unexceptable shakehead
_________________________
~~~ Crystal ~~~

Dot Dot heart Woobie heart Isabella heart Beetlejuice

heart Blitzy&Ella ~ Twinkie&Tiramisu ~ Dolly&Doobie

heart Taaska & Sadie ~ Teddy Bear Doodle & Sasha

heart Tiki, MoJo, Ruckus, Napoleon

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#959601 - 06/16/10 10:21 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: oakley]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
I checked Wynn's whiskers and there are no black ones. He doesn't have a single black hair or spot on his cute little body. I looked all over, much to his disgust. LOL! So does this mean he is a leu for sure?
_________________________
Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

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#959689 - 06/16/10 12:54 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: suggiemom1980]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
I looked at Panda last night. He is a "silver" mosaic that is very powdered out (looks almost white in dim light except for a grey dot where his bald spot would be). He has 3 black whiskers that I can see. The rest are white.
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#961007 - 06/19/10 05:06 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: Dancing]
tlc_in_chitown Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 243
Loc: Illinois
Crystal~ No, neither of my adult leus (Yoggie or Magnolia)come from a mosaic parent. I assumed the slight bit of lt grey coloration in their one or two brow whiskers was attributed to the same thing that gave them the light grey edge coloring on their ears. I will try and post some pics this weekend. My white mosaics def have some "black" whiskers though. I have now noticed than the darker the mosaics, the more black whiskers they have. They haven't been too happy about me eye-balling them lately, lol.


OT~Regarding SGGA~I know...I know...been getting grief all over the place.

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#961047 - 06/19/10 09:19 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: tlc_in_chitown]
fliptout Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 515
Loc: Tennessee
so if you are planning on breeding a Mosaic, do you put them with a Lue Het or a white face?
what do you pair them with?
thanks

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#961057 - 06/19/10 09:46 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: fliptout]
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 644
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
I have a question. Has anyone checked out the whiskers on their WFB or grays? Do they have just solid black whiskers or a mixture too?

The reason I ask is because I was checking out my leus who all have white whiskers, and my mosaics have a mixture. I have a WFB boy who is possibly a minimally marked mosaic too. He has both black and white whiskers along with spotty ears and a broken stripe. He has only had two joeys- a leu and a gray boy, so he hasn't proven out yet. Just curious to know what color your WFB whiskers are.
_________________________
Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


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#962131 - 06/21/10 02:22 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: tacasper]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
i will have to check out my lakota(2nd gen. wfb) tonight. although i may need a magnifying glass to see his whiskers. ha ha

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#963403 - 06/23/10 06:21 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: hwh4ev]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2836
Loc: roseville, mi
i tried to look at lakotas whiskers and from what i could see they were all white.

regards,
nancy in detroit
_________________________
regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)

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#963407 - 06/23/10 06:36 PM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: hwh4ev]
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 6249
Loc: Kansas
Teri, can you post a picture of this boy.

I'll look at wfb whiskers next.
_________________________
Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon

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#963661 - 06/24/10 09:10 AM Re: How can you tell a white mosaic from a leu? [Re: queenduck]
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 644
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
Here is a couple of pics of my WFB leu het boy who is possibly a minimally marked mo. You can see the mixed whiskers really good in the first two pics- mostly on the right side. The second pic he is with his white mo brother. The third is his spotty ears.

I'm wondering if it's common for white faced to have a mixture, or if maybe it's the leu gene, or it could be the mosaic trait.

He is going to be a daddy again soon, so maybe I will finally get an answer if he has the mo gene too grin

This is a very interesting topic. I'm going to be checking everyone out a little more closely now!


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_________________________
Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


www.sugarhighgliders.com



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