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#967885 - 07/01/10 10:37 PM how did we come to the current diets?
meri Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 504
Loc: nc, usa
I am new, so I don't know. What is he history of the diets we currently have for sugar gliders? I ask because most of what I have read about them in the wild (which is not a ton) said they were primarily sap suckers and/or insectivores. If this is true, why do we feed insects and sap as a treat, with fruit and veggies being the staples? I'm not suggesting there is not a reason, I presume there is, but I don't know it. Has there been any good evidence that one diet is better than another; or is it just trial and error on our individual animals? Do we feed similarly to zoos (whom I expect would have the most expertise and resources on what to feed them)? Thank you for your help in trying to understand glider diet!

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#967892 - 07/01/10 10:47 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: meri]
JamieInWA
Unregistered


Hi Meri,
One of the people who have actually done the leg work on these diets would probably have a better answer, but I will try.

Basically, there are NO recommended daily values for sugar gliders. In the wild they basically eat what's AVALIABLE. So it's not really what's best for them. In the wild, it's all about survival. Most gliders in the wild do not live very long either, so they don't have to worry about nutrition for a long healthy life, just enough to survive. They also get A LOT more exercise in the wild than in captivity, so they can afford to eat differently. What they eat also varies depending on the season. Sometimes it's mostly insects and other times it's gums/saps/manna, etc.

The diets today are a result of hands on (or mouth on) testing from thousands of sugar gliders. Indicators of a good or bad diet may be health problems or coat appearance. It's basically years of research, trial and error, and work with vets.

In the wild a glider may only live 2-6 years. In captivity, they can live 12-15 years if cared for properly. So nutrition is very important.

My vet told me that since we don't have any recommended values for gliders (as mith most exotic animals) that the best way to ensure proper nutrition is VARIETY.

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#967904 - 07/01/10 11:22 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: ]
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 10983
Loc: Denton, TX
My understanding:

Leadbeater's diet was developed in Australia by Dr. Leadbeater - who was the first, as I understand it, to successfully breed the Leadbeater's possum in captivity. Leadbeater's possums - like many of the possum- and glider-like marsupials in Australia, are similar to sugar gliders.

As gliders came to America, people tried to modify the Leadbeater's diet to fit with ingredients readily available in America. Also, more observation has been done about what gliders need. For example, they have relatively high protein and calcium needs - compared to other small animals.

When a pet food company researches dog food, they keep dogs at their facility for their entire lives, and for multiple generations. They run bone density tests, and muscle tone tests, and blood tests and ... lots of tests! Then they perform extensive necropsies. The complex dietary needs of dogs ... and cats, and most birds, etc ... are well understood.

That kind of testing has never been performed on gliders. So - very much of what has been developed as "proven diets" for gliders has been done with limited observation, limited necropsies, and some limited trial and error. There is some "deductive reasoning" involved, based on what we know of their diets in the wild. Exotic vets - who in America, also have limited observation, necropsies, experience, etc - can suggest diets, or suggest diet changes. Many exotic vets except those RIGHT on the cutting edge rely on older literature and diets printed a few years ago. Since the "science" of glider diets is evolving pretty much daily at this point, the people on the forums sometimes know more than an exotics vet who only sees a glider or two every few months.

Ok - that's what I have heard and what I understand!


Edited by ValkyrieMome (07/01/10 11:24 PM)
Edit Reason: typos!
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Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
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#967910 - 07/01/10 11:32 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: ValkyrieMome]
JamieInWA
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
My understanding:

Leadbeater's diet was developed in Australia by Dr. Leadbeater - who was the first, as I understand it, to successfully breed the Leadbeater's possum in captivity. Leadbeater's possums - like many of the possum- and glider-like marsupials in Australia, are similar to sugar gliders.

As gliders came to America, people tried to modify the Leadbeater's diet to fit with ingredients readily available in America. Also, more observation has been done about what gliders need. For example, they have relatively high protein and calcium needs - compared to other small animals.

When a pet food company researches dog food, they keep dogs at their facility for their entire lives, and for multiple generations. They run bone density tests, and muscle tone tests, and blood tests and ... lots of tests! Then they perform extensive necropsies. The complex dietary needs of dogs ... and cats, and most birds, etc ... are well understood.

That kind of testing has never been performed on gliders. So - very much of what has been developed as "proven diets" for gliders has been done with limited observation, limited necropsies, and some limited trial and error. There is some "deductive reasoning" involved, based on what we know of their diets in the wild. Exotic vets - who in America, also have limited observation, necropsies, experience, etc - can suggest diets, or suggest diet changes. Many exotic vets except those RIGHT on the cutting edge rely on older literature and diets printed a few years ago. Since the "science" of glider diets is evolving pretty much daily at this point, the people on the forums sometimes know more than an exotics vet who only sees a glider or two every few months.

Ok - that's what I have heard and what I understand!


Alden, well said. Much better than my explanation. Lol.

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#967922 - 07/01/10 11:47 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: ]
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Washington
I think both explanations were good...just different parts of the big picture! smile

I should add that gliders in captivity in many circumstances breed year round while gliders in the wild have a 3 month breeding period. It think that our little ones need lots of calcium and protein if they have more litters than they would in the wild. Just another piece of the big puzzle.

I also believe that it is a good idea to let our females have 'breaks' so that they don't completely deplete their systems if they are breeding females. JMO.



Edited by tjlong (07/01/10 11:49 PM)
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#967941 - 07/02/10 12:14 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: tjlong]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
I also believe that it is a good idea to let our females have 'breaks' so that they don't completely deplete their systems if they are breeding females. JMO.


For those that have a handle on glider diets *as we know of them* and the basic nutritional components of them can modify the diets seasonally throughout the year as well as vary the temperatures the gliders are kept in and they CAN mimic the natural reproduction cycle of wild gliders.

It takes a TON of research on nutritional needs, AND the different seasonal changes that take place in australia as far as the temperature, flora and fauna in australia.

There are so many posts and such that say we have to keep our gliders between X temperature and Y temperature and not to let it go below or above. It says we have to STICK with the same diet at all times. Most of what you will read offers very little variance on how we house and feed our captive gliders. While this is and has shown to provide the long lives we enjoy with our gliders, it isn't necessarily the BEST way.

That being said. My house temperature ranges from 65 up to 80 usually. My diet stays pretty much the same though fruits often change with season availablity. And my two oldest gliders are 11 and 13 yrs old and still healthy and going strong. They have been on the same diet for almost 6 years now.
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#967988 - 07/02/10 06:48 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Dancing]
meri Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 504
Loc: nc, usa
Thank you, everyone!

As for the natural breaks that gliders get from breeding in the wild, wouldn't the only way to provide these be to half-starve the animal??? I see Teresa does not do that (:

I have read of people who remove a female, but do they pair back together nicely after their break? What about a trio or colony? Do they pair back together nicely after a break?

It seems that what we have found over the years is that much of what happens to a glider in nature is actually not the best for it in captivity. Like giving it sap and insects for its staple (I hear this makes them fat in a cage), like seasonal starvation of the colony, etc. Do we have evidence that splitting them up to give them a breeding break as nature would is better than just breeding until they show signs of needing retirement?

I am new, so if I need to start a new thread for this, please let me know, I'm feeling unsure.
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#968570 - 07/02/10 09:28 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: meri]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
There was a similar discussion recently to which I replied to and I did unintentionally upset people who thought i was actually telling them that they were "doing it all wrong".

My only reason to comment here is to clarify and comment on some of the statements made in this thread. I believe the people on these forums sincerely care for their gliders especially dietary and that is why so many people are passionate and robust in their discussions when it comes to diets! I am in no way commenting on best/better etc in regards to diets just want to add some additional comments and knowledge to this discussion smile

"end of disclaimer" smile

Quote:
In the wild they basically eat what's AVALIABLE. So it's not really what's best for them. In the wild, it's all about survival. Most gliders in the wild do not live very long either, so they don't have to worry about nutrition for a long healthy life, just enough to survive.


Wild Gliders have evolved to not only survive but thrive on the natural diet with which they have been presented in the different habitats in which they live. They can eat very toxic plant stock without any effect and also have the very special digestive system to eke out the best nutrients out it! They not only survive but they thrive. Yes wild gliders can and do die young but its not usually diet related unless its destroyed habitat or severe drought. Wild gliders die of cat/dog attack, heat stress and habitat loss more than natural predators these days. However, wild gliders can also live into their teens if the conditions are right but like their captive cousins, this is an above average life expectancy but it can and does happen.

Sure captive gliders have that chance to survive longer without natural predators, habitat loss, severe drought but they still fall prey to the human predator..... no treatment to illness, poor diets, poor husbandry, cat/dog attack, depression, stress, open toilets, etc. (remember I said this was no reflection of the forum people, this is a comment towards the thousands and thousands of owners who do not frequent forums and really don't deliberate daily on their diet or husbandry but see them as another mouth to feed that the kids got bored with!. Honestly there are a lot more of these people in the world than dedicated glider owners)

Quote:
In the wild a glider may only live 2-6 years. In captivity, they can live 12-15 years if cared for properly


Some expert sources say wild gliders average 4-6 years, but this is an average and as mentioned above this is usually non dietary related. Cats are the biggest predator of wild sugar gliders.

What is the average age of a captive glider? If we were all honest and looked at ALL captive gliders, the current odds probably aren't any higher than a wild glider.

If we look at gliders owned by dedicated people then yes I am sure the odds are distinctly higher but still not hitting double figures. We are talking averages here not what they can reach.

Sure captive gliders can make it to past 10 and even up to 15 or potentially more but honestly I don't think that is an average...its above average. Same as the average human lifespan is 70ish but some can make it to 115! I know of a wild glider living in a suburban backyard that is approaching 13 years old and it deals with finding it's own diet,and avoiding the heat, the cats/dogs every day of it's life ..average no...special yes.


Quote:
My vet told me that since we don't have any recommended values for gliders (as mith most exotic animals) that the best way to ensure proper nutrition is VARIETY.
Jamie's vet is dead right about variety. Variety is the key is my fav saying smile

Quote:
Leadbeater's diet was developed in Australia by Dr. Leadbeater - who was the first, as I understand it, to successfully breed the Leadbeater's possum in captivity. Leadbeater's possums - like many of the possum- and glider-like marsupials in Australia, are similar to sugar gliders.


The artificial nectar mix that we use here in Australia for gliders was also fed to other animals including the leadbeaters possum. (PS Des Hackett bred the first leadbeaters in captivity but he did not actually develop this artificial nectar mix contrary to popular belief)

When Taronga zoo started feeding their leadbeaters possums this artificial nectar mix, they called it Leadbeaters mix and the name transposed across to USA at the same time as the Taronga zoo diet.

Quote:
When a pet food company researches dog food, they keep dogs at their facility for their entire lives, and for multiple generations. They run bone density tests, and muscle tone tests, and blood tests and ... lots of tests! Then they perform extensive necropsies. The complex dietary needs of dogs ... and cats, and most birds, etc ... are well understood.

That kind of testing has never been performed on gliders.


This is exactly what Healesville sanctuary does with their gliders though I agree it is something that has not been done elsewhere.

Quote:


For those that have a handle on glider diets *as we know of them* and the basic nutritional components of them can modify the diets seasonally throughout the year as well as vary the temperatures the gliders are kept in and they CAN mimic the natural reproduction cycle of wild gliders.

It takes a TON of research on nutritional needs, AND the different seasonal changes that take place in australia as far as the temperature, flora and fauna in australia.

There are so many posts and such that say we have to keep our gliders between X temperature and Y temperature and not to let it go below or above. It says we have to STICK with the same diet at all times. Most of what you will read offers very little variance on how we house and feed our captive gliders. While this is and has shown to provide the long lives we enjoy with our gliders, it isn't necessarily the BEST way.

That being said. My house temperature ranges from 65 up to 80 usually. My diet stays pretty much the same though fruits often change with season availablity. And my two oldest gliders are 11 and 13 yrs old and still healthy and going strong. They have been on the same diet for almost 6 years now.



Agreed. My own gliders living outside, have approx the same diet all year round, but they have seasonal favourites where they will not eat much of one thing in say spring in favour of something else, but go mad of it in Fall( Autumn). This is one big reason I feed variety of things. I often see on the forums, people say, that their gliders stop eating something that have eaten regularly for say 6 months and the owner panics and changes diets. Maybe the glider is just going through a natural food cycle change. Worth looking into.

Also gliders do have a natural reproduction cycle in Spring/Summer (though we recently had a humid spell into Autumn with some owners experiencing for the first time ever... a few late joeys).

I truly think that the continual breeding season adds a big strain on the female which is not natural and you have to wonder in the long term, how the health is affected by this.


Meri you have asked some very good questions. I think the signs of a potentially very good glider owner is one who asks questions like this as they are considering the big picture and that's important. Hope you didn't mind me hijacking your thread a little smile




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#968763 - 07/03/10 07:34 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Marz]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
great info Marz...thanks smile
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#968836 - 07/03/10 09:16 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: JillMarie]
meri Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 504
Loc: nc, usa
This has ALL been incredibly informative! Thank you, everyone!
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#968840 - 07/03/10 09:21 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: meri]
meri Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 504
Loc: nc, usa
Marz, you are over your pm limit, I want to know more about seasonal vs year round breeding but don't want to get this thread off topic. Can you pm me?
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wave Meri & :grey: :leu:

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#968883 - 07/03/10 10:30 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: meri]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Awhile back one of the breeders (I do not remember who) noted that she had not fed mealworms or other bugs for some time and her gliders did not conceive any joeys. When she began offering mealworms again - she very quickly had joeys in pouch again. Everyone commented on that observation but I do not think others tried to repeat that experience.

It would be interesting to know the season in their natural habitat that insects are most plentiful and see how that relates to the usual breeding season for gliders in the wild.

Perhaps our habit of feeding mealworms daily, year round is not the best choice for our little furry friends - especially the breeders who might benefit from a rest between litters.
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& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

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#968905 - 07/03/10 10:57 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: CandyOtte]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: OtteMom

It would be interesting to know the season in their natural habitat that insects are most plentiful and see how that relates to the usual breeding season for gliders in the wild.

Perhaps our habit of feeding mealworms daily, year round is not the best choice for our little furry friends - especially the breeders who might benefit from a rest between litters.



Insects are more plentiful in Spring and Summer months. Marz notes above that the unseasonable weather has resulted in an extra litter of joeys for some gliders there.

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#968907 - 07/03/10 10:58 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: CandyOtte]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Candy, I rarely feed mealies (can't keep the dang farms alive) but I do feed them other bugs seasonally. (out in the middle of nowhere and no one sprays for anything around here).

I do give them june bugs and grass hoppers when they are available. But I still have joeys year round. BUT I don't usually have joeys back to back to back.
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I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#969181 - 07/03/10 10:14 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: CandyOtte]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: OtteMom
Awhile back one of the breeders (I do not remember who) noted that she had not fed mealworms or other bugs for some time and her gliders did not conceive any joeys. When she began offering mealworms again - she very quickly had joeys in pouch again. Everyone commented on that observation but I do not think others tried to repeat that experience.


I do not remember this conversation, but in my experience, insects (specifically) had nothing to do with breeding, though I could see where overall protein levels may play a part. I did not feed any insects (AT ALL, not one) for the first 2-2 1/2 years that I had my breeding gliders. My two pair had several joeys in that time and all were healthy, no rejections or loss. BUT, this was also when you fed more protein if you had a breeding female, so I would increase protein when I let them mate. dunno
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#969263 - 07/04/10 04:18 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: sugarlope]
Carol
Unregistered


This is a very interesting thread! I feed BML as my basic diet but do add lots of other variety. Some they like, others not. Occasionally I will give them a little bit of cooked plain rice and there is never a grain left. When in season they go nuts over fresh peas in the pod. I never buy them, they're fresh out of my garden where I know there are no insecticides. A friend has a very wormy cherry tree and they go crazy after them (I pop the seed out). But no matter what, the BML is always gone or nearly gone so I know they are getting proper calcium and vitamins. Fresh lettuce, spinach, cucumbers are hits, tomatoes no. I offer dried and fresh fruits and melon and mango seem to be favorites. They are healthy and active with beautiful coats and my 5 week OOP boys are very healthy and the breeder I bought Bandit from says they are very large joeys - they're my first so didn't know that. They get chicken and turkey plus occasionally their beloved drumstick bones. And lots and lots of fresh, clean water!

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#969266 - 07/04/10 04:26 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: ]
Carol
Unregistered


Sorry, forgot something else. After seeing them devour coconut in their dried fruit, I bought a fresh one and gave them a piece still on the shell. They both gnawed and gnawed on it for hours. They like it but made me wonder also how much gnawing they need to do. When I took it out there was a very thin layer of coconut left on it with tons of little tooth marks. Now I offer that once a month. They love it.

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#969303 - 07/04/10 07:17 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: ]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
This is a very informative, interesting and thought-provoking thread. I've very much enjoyed reading it and hope it continues. Meri, thank you for asking these questions!
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#969341 - 07/04/10 08:22 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: suggiemom1980]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16734
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Awhile back one of the breeders (I do not remember who) noted that she had not fed mealworms or other bugs for some time and her gliders did not conceive any joeys. When she began offering mealworms again - she very quickly had joeys in pouch again. Everyone commented on that observation but I do not think others tried to repeat that experience.


This is ChrisR you are speaking of, I will let her know about this thread.

Awesome thread, and Marz, well you know, I always LOVE reading your posts!! wink
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#969390 - 07/04/10 12:00 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Srlb]
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 5138
Loc: Lutz Florida
Thanks Peggy - I could not remember who had made the comment - or on which board.
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& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com

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#969393 - 07/04/10 12:03 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Srlb]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Yep, that would be me that took mealies(all bugs in fact)away from my gliders for a 6 month time frame and I did not have a single joey conceived during that time!...As soon as I was emotionally ready for joeys again (bad experience with trading a joey with another breeder) I gave bugs back and had a population explosion!!...I have heard others mention that they have never fed bugs and still have joeys.. My take on that is, if they arent used to it then mother nature takes over and the cycle of life goes on, but, if you feed bugs as an everyday part of their diet (as I do) then if taken away, it does act more like the diet the gliders get in the wild (they reproduce when the bugs are abundant).
I do not like my gliders breeding back to back as it is extremely to hard on my females, as they are pet first, I try to breed on a more seasonal basis as they would in the wild...Most of my girls will have joeys in pouch so I up the proteins etc of their diet, as soon as the joeys are about 6 weeks OOP the cage gets taken back to the non-breeding formula of HPW (with my modifications), unless of course I notice that in the interum more joeys have gone to pouch (as bitzy just did to me)..I have 2 versions of HPW in my freezer at all times...the non-breeding formula and the breeder formula (with modifications) and I feed each as necessary to the cage....

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#969674 - 07/05/10 10:06 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Chris_R]
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 2833
Loc: roseville, mi
chris,
when you dont feed bugs does that also include no chicken, eggs, or any protein for that matter?

regards,
nancy in detroit
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#969826 - 07/05/10 08:03 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: hwh4ev]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
No but the "other proteins" in their diet are already cut down to the non-breeder formula (modified version of HPW), I increase their veggie/fruit amounts to compensate....

When they arent breeding I feed....
no bugs what-so-ever and increase veggie/fruits to 5 tbls per pair, and 1 round tbls scoop of HPW per pair
My HPW non-breeder formula consists of
1/3 of a cup of HPW powder
2 eggs
1/2 cup applesauce
1 cup of raw honey
1/2c Naked brand Green Goodness Superfoods juice
2 tbls bee pollen
2 cups water

Breeding cages HPW formula when breeding or with joey's and joeys up to 6 mo of age..each pair gets a very heaping tbls scoop of this per night, plus 4-5 mealies each, wax worms etc and their nightly fresh veggies and fruit

1/2 cup of HPW powder
3 eggs
1/2 cup of applesauce
1 cup of raw honey
2/3 cup of Naked brand Green Goodness Superfoods Juice
2 tbls of bee pollen
2 cups water


So yes, when they are not breeding their proteins are cut back by quite a large amount but I dont feel that it is necessary to constantly give high amounts of protein..In fact, studies in all other animals have noted diets to high in protein can cause adverse effects in the health of the animal....

My gliders coats are awesome, they all maintain healthy weights and with the reguimen I have them on, they dont breed back to back (unless they breed again while joeys are still IP or just OOPed) in which case, the parents/cage stays on the breeder reguimen ( I just recently had this happen with Bitzy/Twerp but in the past, putting the cage back on non-breeder formula when joeys are 6 weeks old has helped deter the breeding back to back for me)


* I dont feed crickets and havent since I lost 3 girls to aflatoxins 2 years ago frown

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#976023 - 07/16/10 12:54 AM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Chris_R]
meri Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 504
Loc: nc, usa
Ok, so in the very beginning of captive gliders was a primarily sap and insects and maybe some nectar and pollen and a tiny bit of meat diet given to them (as I understand it, their wild diet) and we found them getting sick or dying young or getting fat since they do not get the same exercise in captivity? I assume this was tried first and had problems.

I also specifically wondered about hpw, which is the one I have chosen for now. What if we substituted gum or sap for the honey? Would that be terribly expensive and not readily available, is that why we don't, or is it actually bad for them? I also wondered with the hpw if you are having a hard time getting enough calcium is it ok to add calcium supplement and just make sure to account for it in your daily ratio?

Lastly, I was looking over the hpw powder ingredients and was worried about the soy. I thought they couldn't eat soy?

Thank you so much for all the valuable info that makes all our suggies healthier!
_________________________
wave Meri & :grey: :leu:

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#976408 - 07/16/10 07:51 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: meri]
meri Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 504
Loc: nc, usa
Also, do gliders eat honey in the wild?
_________________________
wave Meri & :grey: :leu:

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#976415 - 07/16/10 08:06 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: meri]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
These diets are because most ingrediants are readily available....And yes, it was a trial and error at first until more studies were done as to what they actually eat in the wild..Most of the "approved" diets try to mimic as close as possible to a wild diet but with products available to us here in the US.....

Yes gliders most certainly will eat honey in the wild as they will eat baby birds when it can be found..

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#976424 - 07/16/10 08:19 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Chris_R]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
Just my 2 cents with a smile Chris smile
I dont beleive that honey is available to gliders in the wild every day, no way! I dont beleive the honey we buy here in the states is quite like honey out of the comb and I Beleive could be a culprit of teeth problems. Just my 2 cents, I could be totally wrong.
_________________________
USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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#976429 - 07/16/10 08:31 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Cora]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


In the wild gliders are opportunistic omnivores - they will eat pretty much whatever is readily available. If they could get to honey, sure they would eat it. I don't think it is quite so easy to get to all the time, year-round, and not in the processed form we buy at the grocery store. Part of why I feed BML is that it uses much less honey than some of the other diets, and BML is closest I've found to the original Leadbeater's mix that Des Hackett fed way way back.

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#976430 - 07/16/10 08:32 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Cora]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
I so agree with Mars about variety! This is a great discussion! I have got to find some of that nectar you and Winkle speak of!
_________________________
USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm

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#976449 - 07/16/10 09:19 PM Re: how did we come to the current diets? [Re: Cora]
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 310
Loc: Northwest Missouri
Originally Posted By: Cora
Just my 2 cents with a smile Chris smile
I dont beleive that honey is available to gliders in the wild every day, no way! I dont beleive the honey we buy here in the states is quite like honey out of the comb and I Beleive could be a culprit of teeth problems. Just my 2 cents, I could be totally wrong.


If you notice..I said when it can be found...

As to the honey comment you made, exactly the reason I dont feed the entire 1 1/2 c of honey that HPW calls for...I cut it with applesauce (all natural Amish)..Then I added the Naked Brand Green Machine Superfoods juice as it has some excellent ingrediants that I wanted added into my gliders diet ....namely Spirulina, barley, wheat grass, chlorella and blue-green algae

I also only feed raw honey...not the processed, that has most of the nutrients processed out of it

I am lucky in that I am able to drive 30 minutes over to Jamesport (Amish Town) and purchase alot of the natural/no preservative ingrediants that I feed/treat my gliders with

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